Pounce and staggered

[Riccon]

Hi all.
Dears, pls help me out with situation. We have small amateur tournament cub PvP 5*5 characters.

So thing is it's not a surprise round. A Druid (lvl 8) is in shape of leopard (has pounce). He is staggered on this turn. Then PC decides to make a pounce while staggered, because he can charge as a standard action up to his speed. Is he allowed to do so? I searched through the forum and found different opinions how to handle such situations. So please help us choose correct.

--
So we have the following raw rule statements:

1. Full-attack:
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you MUST use a FULL-ROUND action to get your additional attacks.

2. Staggered:
staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions

3. Charge:
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge.

4. Pounce:
When a Creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a FULL-ATTACK (including rake attacks if the Creature also has the rake ability).
--

Our DM doesn't know how to handle it correct too. So we hope decision will be made with ur help.

I think there are two options:
a) when using pounce charge is considered as a part of full_attack. In order to perform full_attack u need full_action, so when u have only move/standart u don't have full_action, so u cannot pounce with full_attack when staggered or slowed.

b) when using pounce Full_attack as a part of charge. So if u can charge (even with a standart action only) u can also make a pounce with full_attack. So u can make pounce while staggered or slowed.

Logics suggests us pick a) option (owner of druid is obviously against this decision :D ), because without charge leopard while staggered can make only 1 attack even if he's adjacent to the target.

So what option should we use?
a) Leopard can't pounce and full attack while staggered
or b) Leopard can use pounce and full attack while staggered

Any ur opinion will be appreciated. Please kindly help us out with this situatuion.

P.S. sorry for my bad english.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

RAW (b)
RAI (a)
I'd definitely go with RAI when it's this clear.

[Nyerkh]

Oh, I had the exact same question, but regarding Barbarians and surprise rounds.

I'm interested to see what comes out of it.
I lean towards a), feels right, but would like a better answer as well.

[Meirril]

The way I'm reading this its A.
Pounce only gives you permission to make a Full attack. You *can* make a full attack. It doesn't say "you take a full attack".

So you have permission to make a full attack when you charge, but if you can only take a standard you may charge but you can't full attack. Charge is normally a full round action, but if you only have a standard the charge is only a standard. If you are staggered you can't take a full round action so I wouldn't allow the attacks that come with a full round action.

i.e. I think its more dependent on being able to use a full round action/attack than on pounces special ability to move and use a full round attack.

[willuwontu]

RAW as long as you can charge you can make a full attack with pounce.

[Cavall]

I think you answered your own question when you said "logically".

Raw B could work by twisted reasoning.

Rai it's certainly A. And logically too.

Go with logic. If you're too off balance to do anything but move or make one attack, you shouldn't be able to move and take multiple attacks.

Simple is best. Logic is simple.

[Wonderstell]

Have the rules changed in the last five years?

Pounce FAQ

Slow Spell wrote:

Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn but not both (nor may it take full-round actions).

As Slow gives you the staggered condition, it's the exact situation OP described. So if the rules haven't changed, the Druid would be able to pounce.

[blahpers]

It's B. Pounce + can only take a standard action = partial charge and full attack FTW. It isn't twisted reasoning--it's exactly the same reasoning used for the FAQ.

[Azothath]

as per the FAQ above.
secondly, make sure the player gets access to Pounce (yep - granted at Druid 6th).

AND
when you do something like this have the players discuss their "tricks" or special moves to the GM so they both agree as to what will happen BEFORE THE GAME BEGINS. Otherwise it is up to the GM and the player has to abide with their ruling at the time.
You will also need web access or electronic documents so you can quickly look up any corner cases.

[Cavall]

The reasoning for the FAQ is "well. We cant half do it so shrug I guess its pounce."

Which... i guess is answer enough.

[Riccon]

Thank you guys for replies.

Somehow while searching i missed FAQ :D

So we will proceed with RAW (b option), because otherwise we should have discussed that pounce work like a) option before start of the game.

[Azothath]

Riccon wrote:

...

So we will proceed with RAW (b option), because otherwise we should have discussed that pounce work like a) option before start of the game.

wha?... lol