Katanas is wrong(?)

[Bublitz]

Hello,

i came here to address an issue about the statistics of the weapon Katana.

Let me put this way:

- Longsword, 1d8 Slashing, 1 Hand, Versatile P [COMMON Martial Weapon]

- Bastard sword, 1d8 Slashing, 1 hand, Two-hand(d12) [COMMON Martial Weapon]

And now:

- Katana, 1d8 S, 1 hand, Versatile P [UNCOMMON Martial Weapon]

I noticed that the Katana was mirrored from the Longsword, in a more expensive version. And should be based on a bastard sword since you CAN and SHOULD be able to use it with two hands and one hand (samurais have both styles and, well.. you should know katana).

The Katana should be like this:

- Katana, 1d8 S, 1 hand, Two-hand(d12) + something else maybe for the Uncommon trait [UNCOMMON Martial Weapon]

I wouldnt even consider the Versatile P on the katana, its not even proper to do that but wont put a fight on that... maybe agile? (Samurais can be very fast with multi-slashing)

So, any thoughts? Anyone feeling that the Katana is wrong and should be able to use it with two hands?

[Vali Nepjarson]

Katanas actually make more sense as a dedicated 2-handed weapon. While there are some kenjutsu styles which used them one-handed, the katana was a very blade-heavy and didn't work well one-handed.

They certainly weren't agile weapons. Not unless you consider a longsword, bastard sword, or even an axe also agile.

The bastard sword and longsword are just as wrong however. The longsword is almost identical to the katana, a dedicated two-handed weapon that you can use one-handed for certain techniques if you have to. The bastard sword is much harder to quantify, since historically the term is a bit nebulous. But in general it is seen as a sub-type of longsword with a shorter than usual handle to help with one-handed techniques (and often a slightly shorter blade too).

So BOTH the Katana and the Longsword should use the Bastard Sword stats, and the Bastard Sword should either just be a Longsword or maybe a slightly weaker Longsword that gets an advantage when using it one-handed.

[Ventnor]

Link to required katana meme. Beware of NSFW language.

[Bublitz]

Still, the way katanas were always presented let us wield with both 1 and 2 hand, i just pointed out that a better stats for this weapon should be more like a bastard in this case (game mechanics) with something else for the UNCOMMON MARTIAL feature.

Katana is not well designed in pathfinder 2... :( katana is not a longsword.

[Dragonborn3]

On the other hand, what is uncommon for one character is common for another. Someone from Tian axis would have access to a MUCH better weapon and then we'll see people min-maxing place of birth just to have the best gear.

[Tarik Blackhands]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

On the other hand, what is uncommon for one character is common for another. Someone from Tian axis would have access to a MUCH better weapon and then we'll see people min-maxing place of birth just to have the best gear.

Doesn't strike me as too different from the good old days where we had all those half orcs with cool tatoos mysteriously favored by fate or those sabbaticals 95% of all Magi used to take to live amongst the Wayangs on some random island before joining the cult of the Dawnflower.

[Bardarok]

I don't think there should really be separate weapons with just the uncommon tag, it is terrible for balance. Just have regional tags so if you're from fantasy Japan (or whatever it is in Golarion) you call your bastard sword a katana and your glaive a naginata and have done with it. They might want to change the base weapon stats to be more region agnostic and then provide reguinal names, they could do the same with armor.

[Bublitz]

You missing the point about uncommon/common tags.

the thing is: Common and uncommon have slight difference in the game. One is more accessible than another. Therefore is "balanced" to presume (wich is what they are doing) that the second one is a little bit more advantageous.

Apart from that, the whole design of the Katana is is not appropriate lore-wise and mechanically. Thats the issue of this thread. The whole 1-hand/2-hand issue and details as listed on OP.

As from the whole regional idea, it think its nice since they already introduced this kind of thing in the Human race descriptors.

[Bardarok]

Simple, Martial, Exotic are balanced around different power points. Uncommon isn't and shouldn't be uncommon weapons are not and should not be better than common weapons.

There are also real world examples of "katans" of a variety of lengths from things that could be used more easily one handed to things that are definitely two handed only. You could generate a whole aditional list but if they are martial weapons they will have the same stats ad shortsword, longsword , bastard sword, greatsword just with different names. Which is what we have right now with the katana.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Bublitz wrote:

the thing is: Common and uncommon have slight difference in the game. One is more accessible than another. Therefore is "balanced" to presume (wich is what they are doing) that the second one is a little bit more advantageous.

That isn't what the rarity system is supposed to do. Level X Uncommon item/spell/monster isn't supposed to be better than a Level X Common item/spell/monster. Common/Uncommon/Rare/Unique is an availability quantifier rather than a quality quantifier.

A Fighter armed with a Katana isn't supposed to be better than a Fighter armed with a Longsword even though the Katana is less available. Exotic Weapons are where the superior than normal weapons are supposed to be; not in the uncommon martial weapon list.

[Bublitz]

Ok... so let go of the Exotic/Uncommon/Common thing. This is not the BIG POINT.

The BIG POINT IS:

Katana: 1d8 S | 1-hand | Versatile P | Uncommon Weapon

Thoughts on that? :D Do you guys agree it should be more like(?):

Katana: 1d8 S | 1-hand | Two-handed(d12) | Uncommon Weapon

I just dont understand why they made katana unable to 2-hand-it :(

[Bardarok]

Yes overall I agree in terms of base weapon mechanics katana = bastard sword not longsword.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Bublitz wrote:

I just dont understand why they made katana unable to 2-hand-it :(

Simple answer is that the designers mostly phoned in the entire weapon list.

There are a lot of other problems with the list not just the katana entry.