Bublitz's page

The official position is that players cannot become a vampire without GM say so. If the GM wants to allow/is telling a vampire PC story they can use the 'creating a vampire' guidelines in the bestiary to do so.

As they are guidelines, and not hard rules, there will likely never be any official step by step guide to adding vampire abilities to a level 20 character. There is no need for one. The GM gets to decide how they want to do it.

This is the obvious statement. Nothing happens without GM saying so.

Anyways,
The step-by-step thing exists, but happens to collide with the definition of Character Level.
The way it is now, yes, the GM decides how to handle it... i was hoping i could use less "interpretation" and more ruling, thats all.

I appreciate the answer :)) i feel the same way about "guideline" thing.
I just want to know if there is anything anywhere that helps me close the matter in a official way. It seems not :((

After reading the rules in the Bestiary I feel like they are written from the perspective of using the rules with the monster creation rules, despite the sidebar indicating that you could use these rules to create a PC vampire.

So the answer to your question is: Whatever you think is fair when applied to a Player Character. If you decide to increase their level by one, then by all means have them level their character. If they are already at level 20, use 21 as their proficiency bonus. Since rules for leveling past 20 aren't a thing that I am aware of, they wouldn't gain any additional skill feats or training unless you grant it to them.

That being said I would personally omit any of the changes to Level, AC, DC's and Skill Modifiers. Edit: This is mostly for character balance purposes. Putting them ahead of the curve, especially if they are the only player in a party receiving such a boon, could have unintended negative consequences in a campaign. With how tight the math is in this edition a bonus of 1 to everything is actually reasonably significant. That being said; if you feel that you can handle the issue, or are building a party of Vampires who would all gain the benefit, feel free to include all of the bonuses as written. Just know that most combats are going to feel just a touch on the easier side due to the increased numbers.

I would apply the damage bonus to strikes with the exception of weapon based ranged attacks like Crossbows or normal bows that don't gain damage from Strength. This is not supported by the rules specifically, but again I believe these rules are largely intended to be used for monsters, so shouldn't apply carte blanche to PC's.

I would apply the indicated bonus to Saves (you could argue that the bonus should only apply to Fort and maybe Reflex saves, but largely it is easier to apply them to all of them.) and use the Health reduction/ DR as is presented on the table.

Then give them all of the basic Vampire Abilities and you are done. Compulsions should be worked out...

Thats exactly how i feel and ill definitely do it in a similar way if i have to. Thanks that's very helpful!!

(..) But also id'like to know also if there is any official position regarding this issue or if they talked about it in any live or interview or errata whatever (and i don't think any developer will ever answer this) /sad

They are primarily for NPC guidelines I would say, to let you know their comparative power. PCs would have to go through GM fiddling to work.

The guideline is for PC characters as well, the book says. Does anybody know if Paizo devs positioned themselves regarding this?

Its a very straightforward question.

It is ruled that character has a level from 1st to 20th.

Creating Vampire says (bestiary):
- Increase your character level by one.

a) what if a 20th level character became a vampire?

b) does his character level go to 21?

c) if he was lv 19 cleric when he turned into a vampire, can he still attain lv 20 cleric while being a vampire? Or hes stuck at lv 19?

Bublitz wrote:

So, for Multiple Attack Penalty every action with [attack] trait counts, be it spell or strike. I got it.

But what if the action doesnt have a Attack trait?

Acid Splash, Cantrip: has Attack trait, therefore counts for MAP

But what about Black tentacles? its a Area conjuration that makes spell attacks, no attack trait... ? how does it work? 4-5 dudes in the area and my spell goes -0 -5 -10 -10 -10 ??? Do i get to choose primary targets? cuz after the second i cant see anyone getting hit by this spell (seriously, -10 only goes with a 19-20 on dice)

And non-attack spells that says "make a spell attack roll" but its not an attack, its just a conjuration that attack for itself. Does it count for MAP still?

It does say your spell attack rolls are affected by MAP and I can't find any exceptions, but it's not as dire as you think. That's a level 5 spell, which means your caster is probably not going to be lower than 9th level. A Wizard at level 9 has at least Expert Spellcaster, and so even without his attribute bonus you're looking at +13 on the roll.

But that's only a problem on the first turn you cast it. After that, it lasts 1 minute, attempting to grab (3d6 damage) whenever any creature ends its turn in the area who is not already grabbed, or deals 1d6 with no attack roll if they're already grabbed. MAP doesn't apply to attacks made when it's not your turn.

What other conjuration "non-attack" spells have you found that say "make a spell attack roll?" I don't believe summons use your spell attack roll, but have their own stats.

Still sucks, armor class goes up along with CR/level, so "+13" for a lv9 PC is just as good as a +8 for a lv4 and whatsoever... impossible to hit with a -10 penalty. a Lv 20 wizard will have the same difficulty to hit the monsters on their bracket.

And the spell without [attack] trait with spell attack roll is Tanglefoot, Cantrip.

So, for Multiple Attack Penalty every action with [attack] trait counts, be it spell or strike. I got it.

But what if the action doesnt have a Attack trait?

Acid Splash, Cantrip: has Attack trait, therefore counts for MAP

But what about Black tentacles? its a Area conjuration that makes spell attacks, no attack trait... ? how does it work? 4-5 dudes in the area and my spell goes -0 -5 -10 -10 -10 ??? Do i get to choose primary targets? cuz after the second i cant see anyone getting hit by this spell (seriously, -10 only goes with a 19-20 on dice)

And non-attack spells that says "make a spell attack roll" but its not an attack, its just a conjuration that attack for itself. Does it count for MAP still?

Notably, I think the rogue is a fairly fantastic assassin on it's own (and the people bringing up the ranger and fighter aren't wrong either), and while I'm sure they could do an archetype for a generic assassin type its pretty clear that this one isn't supposed to be it, in the sense that red mantis assassins aren't generic assassins.

They are anything close to any type of assassin, they are sawtooth saber warriors. Period. Nothing in their mechanic stands for the "assassin" on its title. It did before, but not now.

Dedication: requires proficiency with sawtooth sabers (hello fighter-only), and lets you increase your proficiency above that (expert and on..).

Crimson Shroud: a veil of smoke-wharever that gives you 1 AC, one time use.... until the end of next round. And (wait for it...) gives you the option that, when you die if you have this veil up, you can choose to turn yourself into a pile of red smoky dust and vanish forever. "No ressurrections this time" - Thanos.

Basic Cantrip Feat: Cantrips

Advanced Spell Feat (Gives you access to a specific list of spellss from level 1st to 4th max.)

Mantis Form: You turn into... a mantis :D Polymorph.

Thats it. Thats what it does.

Crimson Assassin :)))))))))

Fitting spellcasting into an archetype takes a lot of wordcount, and Paizo only had one page.

Personally I'm glad they got the spellcasting and spell-likes in there, because other "assassin" abilities you can get from multiclassing rogue or ranger. Things like Mantis Form and Crimson Shroud, not so much.

Its pretty easy to flag "Assassin" apart from "slayer" and "mercenary" just by getting back to what it was in PF1.

Im not saying "we need a insta-kill coup-de-grace thing" ... its not 8-80, but think about a 2 action [>>] Assassinate, that requires the target not seeing you, and you deal some extra amount of Sneak attack damage. Its not new!! Power attack exists!!

Some ways to coat yor weapon with poison damage that doesnt suck, or change the dmg type of precision to poison damage, doenst raise the numbers but provides versatility within the theme. Poison DCs scaling with the class.... there are a LOT of creative solutions to bring the experience of "Assassin" do lower brackets before we rely on the Master Strike at lv 19 (or 18, wharever). Thats what im talking about.

And Crimson Assassin is(was) all about it, assassins with some spells with actual ASSASSIN MOVES and not just "ok, use these swords, kill them with it" ... "how?" ... "doubleslice it until it dies... i mean, youre a fighter right?"

Well, the Red Mantis Assassin is a very specific type of assassin. Frankly there's nothing stopping a Fighter from being an assassin in PF2 anyways since they aren't so severely limited on skills... and if you're looking for a class that's the most "assassiny" out of the box, I'd argue that that's the Ranger, not the Rogue. And Rangers can get into RMA about as easily as the Fighter can.

I'd expect a more generic Assassin archetype to come out in the APG next year, which won't have a weapon restriction and isn't obligated to do mantis things.

Crimson Assassin in PF1 was very specific about Prayer attack (similar to assassinate of the Assassin) and the Sneak attack advancement. The core concept embraces rogues as main choices for the class (and obviously you can MC with wharever you want... but even this case is not the case HERE, since we cant go for it with rogues - we cant.). Now is just a fighter archetype that proficients you in a pair of swords, not an "Assassin" ... and Rangers are "slayers", not "Assassins", if you know what i mean.

Just read the archetypes/classes that points you to assassination and the ones that points you to "slaying/hunting" and you can see the clear difference.

And yes, i guess youre right about the APG next year, i REALLY HOPE they come up with something cool to compensate and not these super conservative archetypes...

PS: Some archetypes are indeed cool, but not going further here cuz its not the thread is about.

Still doens't cover the downside of what was explicit in the thread. Don't even scratch it.

Still very disappointed. I wonder how Paizo come up with those decisions, about class, feats, archetypes... some stuff just by reading you see "well, that's messed up."

That's not the entire thread.

Its actually a more fighter archetype since requires Trained with an Advanced Uncommon Martial Weapon, doenst provide any killing move, just some spells and a polymorph, and ofcourse, proficiency advancement on Sawtooth Saber.

Really disappointed.

I hope to see an actual Assassin archetype anytime soon... or one that at least marries with the rogue class (Assassin, Shadow Dancer...)

One of the reasons i started to play PF1 was that whole new idea of Archetypes and they said "you dont have to waste 7 levels playing something you dont want to finally begin the first level on something you want, you start playing from the beginning" they were talking about prestige classes on 3.5 - and this concept was awesome.

But now it i get this Master Strike (Assassinate) at lv 18!!! and nothing prior that that makes me feel im playing the character i want. Because Poisons itself suck beyond some level (and its really costly, so it cant be part of character theme, is an circumstantial accessory). The Dedication Feat with bad scaling DC makes it not OK even with Alchemist Dedication (so i cant play a "Poisoner" and PoisonWeapon feat, lets face it: suck. And burns TWO class feats)... on top of that they took away the two-weapon rogue, they (again) made a lv 18 feat something that could be happening MUCH earlier... and still made it a hell difficult to achieve (now that fighter ded is str 14 and str dex).

Idk if im just frustrated or anyone else feels the same way... i was excited about Crimson Assassin and they delivered me a fighter Archetype. So much love for fighters in this edition ha?

Assassin (Archetype)
Psionics (Class and variants)
Gunslinger (Class)

The problem is not the PF1 or 2 or D&D whatsoever.... the problem is d20 itself, yes our beloved 20-sided dice is the problem because it varies too much in a wide of numbers so the bonus counts less and less...

Less the dice-number, more wight the bonus will have, if you have to roll a d100 for a check, well... thats total luck and d20 is a long shot of a roll.

1) I’d say so, since Armor has parts to it.

2) Bypass Hardness, otherwise it would never do damage.

3) It can take an item to Broken, it can’t take an item past Broken. So no Destroying stuff.

1) I agree.

2) It seems for me Hardness counts, waiting to see anymore thoughts.

3) RAW it cant because of a bad wording at Broken condition, but everything else says it can.

Broken condition specifies that BT is when the HP goes BELOW BT, not the same amount. This makes the feat *useless*... but everywhere else when you read the HP mechanism treats the corresponding trigger (die, broke, wharever) as if when the HP reaches the actual number, not beyond it.

You subtly damage others’ equipment. Choose one item that a
creature within your reach wields or carries. The item must have moving parts that you could possibly sabotage (a shortbow could be sabotaged, but a longsword could not). Attempt a Thievery check against the Reflex DC of the creature. Damage dealt by Sabotage can’t take the item below its Break Threshold.

1 - Worn items counts as carryng? Can i use it on an ARMOR?
2 - The sabotage damage goes directly to item's HP or is reduced by Hardness (like a Strike)?

Other clarification you see fit please submit... like, is it intended to not let we actually get an item broken? what am i sabotaging if the item is not sabotaged at all :) ?

How do i damage(attack) my opponent equipment?

I see. Thanks for clarification.

As i read it, i came to understand (or misunderstand) that:

- Different sources grants me the extra action (Haste spell, Rune, Lv20 Fighter Feat), they all give me 1 extra attack each for coming from different sources.

- Two runes are different sources, indeed, therefore... 1 action each.

If you become quickened from multiple sources, you can
use the extra action you’ve been granted for any single
action allowed by any of the effects that made you
quickened.

Thanks @Iff, but your statement of telling me they are different sources is the exact reason it makes me think i get 2 actions.

/cry

More statements please? An official from Dev would help also.. <3

PAGE 622

Quickened
You gain 1 additional action at the start of your turn each
round. Many effects that make you quickened specify the
types of actions you can use with this additional action.
If you become quickened from multiple sources, you can
use the extra action you’ve been granted for any single
action allowed by any of the effects that made you
quickened. Because quickened has its effect at the start
of your turn, you don’t immediately gain actions if you
become quickened during your turn.

The question is:

Speed Rune on two weapons counts as different sources? Or "rune" is a universal "type of source" therefore 2 swords with speed dont grant me 2 extra attacks, only 1?
It doesnt say "type of sources" or anything like it, only "multiple sources". Two weapons are ... multiple source. Am i right?

"Probably" is not the answer i was hoping for my friend :( ... i could argue that Cloth is "armor", so its ok to have Dex cap but Bracer is a Worn item (Worn Items category) ... so, why Dex Cap?

Again, two statements. I wish a Dev could come here and clarify please, or someone who actually saw this answer somewhere else.

@Red Metal thanks thou.

PAGE 556, BROWN HIGHLIGHT TIP

ARMOR ALTERNATIVES
If you don’t want to wear armor, or you’re trained in
only unarmored defense, you can wear either explorer’s
clothing or bracers of armor. Explorer’s clothing can be
etched with runes just like armor can, so it can provide
item bonuses to AC or saves.
Bracers of armor give a +1 item bonus to AC with no Dex
modifier cap, and also grant a bonus to saves. This item
can be found on page 607.

PAGE 607

BRACERS OF ARMOR ITEM 8+
ABJURATION INVESTED MAGICAL
Usage worn bracers; Bulk L
These stiff leather armguards grant you a +1 item bonus
to AC and saving throws, and a maximum Dexterity
modifier of +5.

So... wich one is official statement? Does the bracer caps Dex or not?

Thats what i thought, changing to ordinary damage on the first strike and letting the second strike go for precision if i want to.

Since Powerful Sneak changes the damage from precision to Ordinary, does Doubleslice, adds the full sneakattack damage in both strikes? Seems it does to me because its not precision damage anymore. Want to hear some clarification please :)

Double Slice [Lv1 Fighter feat]
You lash out at your foe with both weapons. Make two Strikes, one with each of your two melee weapons, each using your current multiple attack penalty. Both Strikes must have the same target. If the second Strike is made with a weapon that doesn’t have the agile trait, it takes a –2 penalty.
If both attacks hit, combine their damage, and then add any other applicable effects from both weapons. You add any precision damage only once, to the attack of your choice. Combine the damage from both Strikes and apply resistances and weaknesses only once. This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty.

Powerful Sneak [lv 18 Rogue feat]
You have learned to exploit your enemies’ lowered defenses. When you succeed or critically succeed at a Strike using your Strength modifier on the attack roll and you would deal sneak attack damage, you can change the additional damage from sneak attack into ordinary damage of the same type as your Strike, rather than precision damage.

It seems sneak attack is ok as long we dont use magic weapons. It seems all damage is fairly ok ...as long we dont add extra weapon dice because it creates a exponential curve that opens the gap of damage TOO MUCH.

+5 greatsword, alone, wielded by a lv 0 bunnyrabbit: 6d12 (6 to 72 dmg)

+5 shortsword, wielded by lv17 rogue with 4d6 sneakttack: 6d6 + 4d6: (10 to 60 dmg). And he needs to find position, dance and wharever.

just rough math to show that sneak attack should scale with weapon dice plus that even if the % of damage between weapons remains the same, the gap in solid numbers is too much.

2 points of damage is still 100% more damage than 1 point of damage.
... and so is 100 to 50.

How this thread is not about weapon damage dice increase math anymore?... i mean, whats going on.

The whole magic weapon system creates a exponential scale that more and more breaks the balance.
Everything seems to work fine with normal weapons (+0)

By adding weapon dmg dice each +1 enchantment they instead got rid of "+1" and now is TIMES (x1) one, or two... three. They kept the % gap of damage between weapons but forgot that a weapon dealing 2 points of damage and another dealing 4, its 100% more, but its harmless if you take it by the numbers. But this same weapon +5 will be dealing 50 damage and the other one 25, still 100% more damage but the gap is just unbearable.

Magic items just STOMP sneak attack from rogues for example, because they are fine as long you dont have any magic weapon in the game.

A +5 greatsword, ALONE, wielded by a feat-less class-less lv 1 peasant deals 6d12 points of damage (6 to 72 dmg)

A rogue, lv 17, with 4d6 sneak, getting in position with a +5 weapon S.sword, deals 6d6 + 4d6(joke-sneak) = 10d6 (10 to 60 dmg)

This is just wrong as i see. Sneak attack should AT LEAST scale with extra damage dice. Or enchantments should go for fixed dice maybe. I dont know.
When you build your math based on %, the bigger the number,...BIGGER the gap (sounds obvious but its exponential problem).

I used sneak attack just as a bonus reference to point out that, everything is about weapon dice size. Thats it. This system CLEARLY favors big dices alone.

(And for the rogues, i always pictured them as massive damage dealers who need to find a spot, an opening or wharever... it seems sneak attack is a compensation, a POOR ONE, because i could just grab a d12sword and the hell with s-attack... R.I.P assassin.)

Ok... so let go of the Exotic/Uncommon/Common thing. This is not the BIG POINT.

The BIG POINT IS:

Katana: 1d8 S | 1-hand | Versatile P | Uncommon Weapon

Thoughts on that? :D Do you guys agree it should be more like(?):

Katana: 1d8 S | 1-hand | Two-handed(d12) | Uncommon Weapon

I just dont understand why they made katana unable to 2-hand-it :(

You missing the point about uncommon/common tags.

the thing is: Common and uncommon have slight difference in the game. One is more accessible than another. Therefore is "balanced" to presume (wich is what they are doing) that the second one is a little bit more advantageous.

Apart from that, the whole design of the Katana is is not appropriate lore-wise and mechanically. Thats the issue of this thread. The whole 1-hand/2-hand issue and details as listed on OP.

As from the whole regional idea, it think its nice since they already introduced this kind of thing in the Human race descriptors.

Still, the way katanas were always presented let us wield with both 1 and 2 hand, i just pointed out that a better stats for this weapon should be more like a bastard in this case (game mechanics) with something else for the UNCOMMON MARTIAL feature.

Katana is not well designed in pathfinder 2... :( katana is not a longsword.

Hello,

i came here to address an issue about the statistics of the weapon Katana.

Let me put this way:

- Longsword, 1d8 Slashing, 1 Hand, Versatile P [COMMON Martial Weapon]

- Bastard sword, 1d8 Slashing, 1 hand, Two-hand(d12) [COMMON Martial Weapon]

And now:

- Katana, 1d8 S, 1 hand, Versatile P [UNCOMMON Martial Weapon]

I noticed that the Katana was mirrored from the Longsword, in a more expensive version. And should be based on a bastard sword since you CAN and SHOULD be able to use it with two hands and one hand (samurais have both styles and, well.. you should know katana).

The Katana should be like this:

- Katana, 1d8 S, 1 hand, Two-hand(d12) + something else maybe for the Uncommon trait [UNCOMMON Martial Weapon]

I wouldnt even consider the Versatile P on the katana, its not even proper to do that but wont put a fight on that... maybe agile? (Samurais can be very fast with multi-slashing)

So, any thoughts? Anyone feeling that the Katana is wrong and should be able to use it with two hands?

So its all 20-ft bright light radius and then sudden darkness? no more extra 20ft radius dim-light from any source of light?

All light sources seems to do this cuz they all refer to torch-rules ("emits light just like a torch"...) you can see this words appearing on spell descriptions and stuff. So... is this how its supposed to be?

Thanks, anyway, lets see how it works now.

I tried to play a rogue, im so sad im rerolling. Seriously, for that exact reason. I cant sneak. Tried ranged, always wanted to "assassin" playstyle - nope. Recreated the character for melee (... my fun experience just went downhill at this point, but ok lets go..), same. Totally dependable, circumstantial and embarrassing to play cuz i just CANT FREAKING SNEAK ATTACK. I mean... well idk, the OP already said it all, im just here to support. I CHANGED my class, refused to play the rogue i always wanted because i cant stealth > sneak. The mechanic made me put my character away. Not having any fun... And whats with ranged weapons still not getting any damage from Dex modifier?

I dont get it how the weapon trait FORCEFUL works, can anyone enlight me plz?

[When you attack with it more than once on
your turn, the second attack adds a circumstance bonus to
damage equal to the number of weapon damage dice, and each
subsequent attack adds a circumstance bonus to damage equal
to double the number of weapon damage dice.]

the number of weapon dice, is it the damage dice? i mean, a 1d6 weapon with forcefull would give you +6 damage? the next attack +2?

or is it the number of dice? (since is 1d6, so +1... and then +2), if so does Sneak attack in this matter counts as dice for the forceful effect? Therefore adding plus 2 and plus 4 (with sneak attack +1d6 at lv 1-4).

This also aples to Charge, that also works with "number of damage dice"

Ability Boost
Dexterity
Charisma
Free

Flaw
Wisdom

... I mean, why Wisdom and not Strength? I mean, Wisdom is so much important for trackers, rogues (initiative based classes), and thats what goblins should go for in majority (Lore based and stuff, the whole stereotype. And lets face it, its a goblin... strength flaw makes MUCH more sense. I dont get it, and Charisma? ... Well, wont argue on that, i just dont feel the goblin stats represents the race. I could go for Dex, Con(because they already eat S~%+ AND POISON and wharever they found and get beaten a lot), Free boost, and Strength flaw.

Ramanujan wrote:

Rogues and others with the dedication to rogues gain an ability to consider all characters who haven’t acted yet flatfooted. This obviously doesn’t work mid combat, but would work to start combat with a sneak attack.

See my post on stealth in the skills forum.

can you link to that?

"Surprise Attack

Page 119

Rogue level 14 feat spring from the shadows may or may not help. Depends on how the rules interact exactly.

So.. i have to wait 14 levels for a feat that may or may not help. Thats ... awesome. Not. Thats not wat i want.

What i want is: Hide behind a something, step out and sneak attack. Or get in a "sniper position", behind the enemy or wharever and ranged-attack-sneak him.

Because it seems that the way is WRITTEN, i can be BEHIND the enemy and since hes not blind, in darknss or im invisible, he TOTALLY insta-notice me, behind him, the moment i step out of my bush :D and its not flat-footed anymore.

Am i missing something?

Unseen providing flatfooted only works when you have a constant effect providing unseen, such as invisibility, darkness or blindness.

Even from behind? I mean... its just silly to imagine 2 guys engaged in combat, i sneak BEHIND HIM, AT DISTANCE, BEHIND A TREE... i sidestep to shot an arrow and he instantly notices me like freaking spider-man danger sense mode.

Help? :((

From Stealth skill action (PAG 158)
[If you speak or make a deliberate loud noise, you become sensed. If you do anything else, you become seen just before you act. ***For instance, if you attack a creature you’re unseen by, that creature is not flatfooted against that attack.***

From page 302
Condition

UNSEEN
If a creature is unseen, you have no idea where it is. You don’t know what space it occupies, you’re flat-footed to it, and you can’t easily target
with attacks or targeted spells and affects.

So... whats the point? You stealth your way to get a flat-footed condition for a Sneak Attack, but by the moment you attack, the target is no longer F-footed (so the Stealth text says)? So whats that for. - But UNSEEN says you get to flat-foot the guy... I DON'T GET IT.

>>How do i Sneak attack during combat if stealth specifies that once im unseen and attack a target, hes no longer flat-footed BEFORE my attack?<<