Death Mechanics deeply flawed

General Discussion

The issue I have with the death mechanics is that is it close to impossible to survive in most cases. Last night I was in a situation where I went to dying 2 (after attacks) with a monster that was one level above mine. My fortitude save had been weakened a little so my odds of a successful save was 20% (DC was set using table 10-4). Sine I had to make two saves, my odds of survival were roughly 5%.

Not surprisingly my character died. I have to wonder, what was the point of me rolling to begin with. My character was highly likely to die. Rolling just prolonged the agony.

If you are going to have a death system where people die most of the time, don’t bother. Just kill them outright.

I’m not sure what the goals of the Paizo’s developers were.

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Apparently according to Jason on the twitch stream they are releasing new rules monday...

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't think the new rules coming out Monday will change this scenario. If I remember correctly the changes coming had more to do with what happens after you succeed on a save. Stats so far show 6% of characters die in the first play test chapter. At dying 2 your entire party has 2 chances to do something to save you, in addition to your own saves. Not to mention you start each session with a Hero Point that could have saved you as well. I'm guessing no one in your group could help you survive?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At OP:

Are your allies not healing you? Once you are at positive HP's (and conscious), the dying condition bleeds off over the number of rounds equal to your dying number. It becomes pretty much automatic.

If you don't get help from allies, from any source, either magical or skill based, of course the chracters with low Fortitude or fortitude affecting effects will make it rough to survive. I'd expect nothing less.

Also, don't forget that when you become Dying, your initiative place moves to just before the creature drops you. That means ALL of your allies have the opportunity to do something about you before it comes to your turn. Also, you die at dying 4. That gives ALL of your allies 2 rounds to help you.

In my experience, actually reaching death is pretty hard. Unless you have a DM that targets an unconscious, dying character. In that situation, no rule will help you.

virtualjack wrote:

If you are going to have a death system where people die most of the time, don’t bother. Just kill them outright.

Your group could have:

- Cast a healing spell, saving you.
- Cast the Stabilize cantrip, saving you.
- Used a healing potion or the alchemist elixir of life, saving you.
- Used the Administer First Aid skill from Medicine, a skill that everyone can use untrained, saving you.
- Everyone gets a hero point at the start of each session, which you could have used to automatically stabilize yourself.

That's a fair amount of options, even more options than what we had in PF1.

To have only a 20% to stabilize, you must have been against a boss creature and had some severe penalties. Even against the boss in Lost Star, our DCs only have to make a DC 18 check, at Dying 2 a DC 19 check. An average character (+3 fort) should have a 25% chance and a 20% chance.

Instead of using the High chart setting, they (or your group) could always lower it to Low or Trivial.

I'm not sure how I feel about the setting so far, it's been OK.

If your party healed you, you would be alive.
If no healing were available and you fought anyway, either you made a mistake, or your GM did.

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