Druids, fireballs and niche protection

[Arcane Feline]

I've been told, over and over, by many people, that the wizard should not have any healing spells, because it would negatively affect balance and invade the niche which the divine spellcasters occupy. And yet now we see druids being able to cast fireballs and chain lightnings, just like wizards.

Don't get me wrong - I find it logical that a druid, being a primal caster in tune with the elements, would be able to conjure fire and lightning. However, wouldn't it be an invasion of the niche occupied by the arcane spellcasters, like wizards and sorcerers?

I just want some consistency, here. Now, far be it from me to demand any changes without asking "what was their reasoning?", first. So I'm asking. I'd also like to hear what other people have to say about that.

Note: I also do not believe the changes to the druid's spell list to be game-breaking. And this is exactly my point: changing the wizard's spell list to include some healing spells would also not be game-breaking, and yet "wizards can't heal, it's a cleric's/druid's/bard's" job has always been a sacred cow for many games stemming from D&D.

[Laik]

Guess reasoning is that they had flame strike and other fire spells in previous edition. Since now the spell list is more condensed, all these "aoe fire" spells are just called "fireball". Just like our favorite and flavorful call lightning condensed to a lightning bolt.

Looks like part of spell list simplification process.

[Lyee]

I've always considered damage a tertiary trait of wizards, after utility and battlefield control. Since enemy HP is such a basic, universal thing to interact with, I see no problem expanding this out if wizards keep their real core of having the widest selection of unique spell effects, and the ability to pokemon collect-em-all in a spellbook.

[PossibleCabbage]

I think the way we've divided things with the four essences (Material, Spiritual, Mental, and Vital does a sufficient job of protecting niches.

So fireball is a material spell, since it is a ball of fire (which is a material essence) so casters from traditions which include material magic can cast it, which are arcane casters (since arcane is Material+Mental) and primal casters (since primal is Material + Vital). We're not giving it to (most) clerics or bards (without that one feat), but Divine and Occult share the Vital essence which is why Bards can heal now.

[B. A. Robards-Debardot]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think the way we've divided things with the four essences (Material, Spiritual, Mental, and Vital does a sufficient job of protecting niches.

So fireball is a material spell, since it is a ball of fire (which is a material essence) so casters from traditions which include material magic can cast it, which are arcane casters (since arcane is Material+Mental) and primal casters (since primal is Material + Vital). We're not giving it to (most) clerics or bards (without that one feat), but Divine and Occult share the Vital essence which is why Bards can heal now.

Bards could heal before. They just didn't get Heal (still don't) or Breath of Life

[Elleth]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think the way we've divided things with the four essences (Material, Spiritual, Mental, and Vital does a sufficient job of protecting niches.

So fireball is a material spell, since it is a ball of fire (which is a material essence) so casters from traditions which include material magic can cast it, which are arcane casters (since arcane is Material+Mental) and primal casters (since primal is Material + Vital). We're not giving it to (most) clerics or bards (without that one feat), but Divine and Occult share the Vital essence which is why Bards can heal now.

Divine and Occult share spiritual, which is why bards can curse people.

But yeah, I agree that the four spell lists from the four essences does a decent job of niche protection and IDK, it sits better with me than the more hit and miss giving new spells to classes based on tradition or what have you.

For OP:
Wizards are Mental and Material -good access to mind control, info gathering, illusions, blasty things, walls. They're good with both clever tricks and simple efficient application of power.

Druids are Vital and Material -good access to blasty things, walls, healing, and other life related things. They have access to some of the best magical offense and defence, making them the most battle-ready spellcasters.

Clerics are Vital and Spiritual -good access to healing and other life related things, but also curses and such. With the best healing and some solid buffs or debuffs, their spell list is well suited for a support role but lets them handle being shot.

Bards are Spiritual and Mental -good access to mind control, info gathering, illusions, but also curses and such. Their spell list at a glance seems like the least suited for a fair fight, and they are best suited for a role as subtle support or cunning manipulator.