Reading through the Empower Bombs section and cross-referencing with the actual bombs, it struck me as weird that the Thunderstone is stuck as a DC 15 Fortitude Save. Was this purposeful or just an oversight, as the other bombs with lasting effects are either the flat DC 20 check to resist, or can't be resisted at all (e.g. Liquid Ice and Bottled Lightning)?
Because that secondary effect would be nigh-useless by the time you hit level 10.
Yeah, I noticed that too. My personal opinion is that it was an oversight in the Alchemist's Empower Bomb ability - I am definitely ok with a lv1 item having DC15, but a higher level bomb should use an Alchemist's class DC, or at least get an increase of sorts.
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In general I think Empower Bomb should be Empower Alchemical Items.
and when it comes to DC stuff... it should just add the "amount of dice" to the DC.
possibly increase the times by some amount for things like elixer of dark vision.
It's the one DC outside of poisons which is affected by potent Alchemy feat, and poisons are nigh unusable with potent Alchemy due to it being up only for the round.
So...
shroudb wrote: It's the one DC outside of poisons which is affected by potent Alchemy feat, and poisons are nigh unusable with potent Alchemy due to it being up only for the round.
So...
It's actually even worse - "Potent Poisoner" is the name of the feat, and it applies ONLY to poisons.
"When you craft an alchemical item with the poison trait using any means, the DC is increased by 2, to a maximum of your class DC."
And at least poisons have different types available as you level - Thunderstone is just the one flat bomb.
Edit 1: Nevermind, you were looking at Powerful Alchemy, which still applies solely to Quick Alchemy items - but that said, what IS the Class DC for Alchemists? I can't recall reading it anywhere in the section!
Edit 2: Found the Class DC on page 43 is locked to your Key Ability, so presumably it matches your INT score alone - I'm guessing we're supposed to get magical items to push our INTs above 20 in that case, then?
Gazragar wrote: shroudb wrote: It's the one DC outside of poisons which is affected by potent Alchemy feat, and poisons are nigh unusable with potent Alchemy due to it being up only for the round.
So...
It's actually even worse - "Potent Poisoner" is the name of the feat, and it applies ONLY to poisons.
"When you craft an alchemical item with the poison trait using any means, the DC is increased by 2, to a maximum of your class DC."
And at least poisons have different types available as you level - Thunderstone is just the one flat bomb.
Nix that - you were looking at Powerful Alchemy - but that said, what IS the Class DC for Alchemists? I can't recall reading it anywhere in the section! Potent Alchemy is the previous feat of the chain (a requirement for poisoner)
It gives class DC to all items, but is usable only by Quick, so only 1 round. Which makes it terrible for poisons.
The only non poison item is thunder bomb.
Gazragar wrote: Edit 2: Found the Class DC on page 43 is locked to your Key Ability, so presumably it matches your INT score alone - I'm guessing we're supposed to get magical items to push our INTs above 20 in that case, then? Class DC is 10 + level + key ability mod.
shroudb wrote: It's the one DC outside of poisons which is affected by potent Alchemy feat, and poisons are nigh unusable with potent Alchemy due to it being up only for the round.
So...
ah. I had this discussion with a bunch of people. I dont' remember what they cited though.. but there are bits and bobs that seem to indicate that while the "poison" itself disappears. the effect caused by the poison still remains.
The main bit was..It states "inert" not "vanishes"
the fact that if "effects caused by alchemical items" did not stick around past the item experation then acid would randomly turn off, fires caused by alchemist's fire would disappear, sticky stufff would vanish. Elixer's bonuses would stop working. anti plague and anti poison wouldn't' work.
Which would be a shame. as, for me, and many others. view Quick Alchemy as a "shoot i didn't think I'd need X today" utility tool. NOT. surprise bomb ability.. .despite how many effects power up bombs via it.
There are too odd interactions causes caused by bombs and not bombs, that thwy would have had to call out. Because once you use the item, they are no longer the item, its an effect. Its pedantic.. but in the RAW world, that is technically true. like a thunder stone's deafness, or bottled lighting's flatfooted. Those woudln't magically disappear.
I.e. if you poison someone, it is no longer the item you made. Its an ongoing effect. So the poison would continue on.
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The real problem is. Most poisons require 3 actions to use. THIS is what prevents you from using Poisons with Quick Alchemy. You dont'h ae the actions to apply the poison and then use it. You don't even have the actions to apply it to a friend's weapon for them to use.
In theory, you could get the Class Feat that allows Quick Alchemy items to last until the end of your next turn, and then if your GM would allow you to use the semi obscure rule of applying actions over multiple rounds, you might be able to spend the last 2 actions of round 1 to appply, and then 1 action of round 2 to apply, then attack..
but that is a looot of effort for little payoff.
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additionally. I think this interaction on poison also supports the idea that effects caused by the temporary items,
I guess you’d need to hand the poison to someone else and have HIM use three actions to apply it?
So... 5 actions. 6 if you need to move closer.
I don't think that would work either..
Your turn. you spend 1 action to make, 1 action to give.
Their turn, 3 actions to apply. Your next turn comes up again, it becomes inert.
Unless... you meant have that person apply poison to your weapon? Hum...I don't know how Familiars work in this game.. but, do they get actions? If so, they might be able to apply it to your weapon.
Still, horribly inefficient and probably only for an opening strike.
baring ways to lower the action cost. If you made the poison, and handed it to a Rogue of lv 6+ they could apply it as a single action using their ability, then attack with it. About the only time I can think of wanting or needing to do that, and it being worth it, would be with the Sleep Poison.
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