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I realize it was at 1st level and 1st level PCs is just a festival of constant failure, but I felt really useless. I was mainly just shooting things with my hand crossbow and saving my very few alchemical items for when I really needed them. The most useful thing I did was poison the rogue's arrows with poison before going down the sewer. And when the time came to use them, they didn't do much of anything. The sorcerer in the party was just a better version of me. I was also the only healer and I couldn't heal anyone other than the sorcerer more than once per day. For reference, out part was a monk, a rogue, a sorcerer, and an alchemist. It was then that I took a careful look at later levels of alchemist and comparing it to the cleric since it was also a support class with utility and some damage. At no point did I even come close doing anything as well as them. They have a separate resource pool for spells, channel energies, domain powers, and for magic items. While the Alchemist has one shared pool for everything they can do. I'm not saying an alchemist should be able to do the clerics job, but maybe make them do HoTs and DoTs along with its interesting take on buffs so that we can support differently. That with a change to its resource management seems to be what needs to be fixed. Though this is just my opinion from the first part of the playtest and theory crafting. Although Cantrips seems to be really good, I don't think alchemists need an at will since they do have weapons. I just think they're too constrained on resources at them moment.
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I think the Alchemist's main problem is that Advanced & Quick Alchemy cost RP, a resource you are supposed to get in addition to your class features. It would feel equally wrong to have a class relaiant on spending Hero Points for class features.
What if Alchemist's recieved a pool of Spell Points based on Intelligence, rather than Studied Resonance? They could use those to fuel Advanced and Quick Alchemy. Certain Alchemist feats could grant more SP (like those with the Additive trait). At 9th they'd recieve bonus Spell Points through "Expanded Alchemy" only for Quick Alchemy.
This would give alchemists a reasonably large pool of resources to draw from, without costing them the ability to activate their own magic items. It would also open design space for Alchemist feats that grant wonderous Alchemical powers.
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I think at it's heart, the alchemist was intended to be the "gadgeteer" class, and at it's heart, there's a lot of potential. Quick alchemy is a good start to an extremely versatile ability, but as you said, the alchemist suffers greatly from constrained resources.
From what I've noticed, these seem to be the main issues
-they simply cannot manage the resonance cost of their abilities. This, imo seems really odd, and, quite frankly,ost potential. If the alchemist had ways of managing resonance, it would give them a really unique and interesting niche. My first thoughts were abilities that allow them to waive resonance costs for elixirs, adding int to the flat roll for over spending, slowing down the rate the DC for overspending rises, a bigger pool for their advanced/quick alchemy, making the infused trait waive RP costs entirely, regardless who drinks it, etc
-for a crafting based class, they have zero support for items that are crafted the normal way. Efficient alchemist is a thing, but vanilla alchemical items are way to expensive for what they do (seriously, an alchemist fire and a light crossbow bolt do the same damage and have the same activation time, and yet the fire is 30 sp while the crossbow bolt is 10 for 1sp. Wtf?). One of the draws for the pf 1 alchemists was that they augmented normal items as well as their bombs, and thanks to the bigger discount, could at least be stored away for emergencies. furthermore, they really do not play well with anything not alchemy related at all. I would love to see a return of features like the grenadier archetype being able to attach bombs to normal weapon attacks, mutagens actually still boosting melee weapons,etc.
-they lack any form of power play. Like, I get that a generalist typw class usually doesn't have as strong of plays to make up for versatility, but all of their abilities just fall short of other options. Wizard cantrips are on par with bombs even after empower bombs, their support elixirs cost resonance and can be easily replicated with spells, elixirs of life are just so underwhelming compared to channel, etc. Mutagens, which Id argue are some of their best tools for adapting, are locked behind prohibitive prices and odious onset times (also, why cant they make mutagens witb their resonance?)
-They lack the stamina of a martial, and the narritive impact of a caster. If they are supposed to rely on bombs for offense, they should be able to spam those suckers like cantips. Also int to damage. Like seriously, should have been a level 1 power of empower bomb
-seems weird to me that with classes like bard and druid being able to focus in certain abilities that the alchemist is still required to spread itself all over instead of dedicating their studies to a specific pursuit if desired.
Like, I was really excited for the alchemist, but atm it feels like the devs didn't have a good enough feel for how much resources they eat in order to keep up with everyone else's free stuff
Something one of my friends brought up that would help make alchemists more playable is make any alchemical items they craft automatically infused. So that way it can be used with its class features. If you make an elixir with gold, why would the alchemist have to spend a resonance on it? Because in that case you're just spending 2 different resources for something you could spend 1 on. Yes the elixir you make with gold isn't going away after 24 hours, but it still doesn't make sense. And once you hit 3rd level making bombs is pointless since your Empower Bomb feature only works on infused bombs. The only items that can be made mundanely and still be useful are mutagens and poisons. I also got a magic item for my alchemist in the playtest, and thankfully it was just a +1 chain shirt. Anything that cost resonance would have to be immediately sold off or just given to another party member since it would do more harm than good for me.
I think at it's heart, the alchemist was intended to be the "gadgeteer" class, and at it's heart, there's a lot of potential...
great post
That +1 chain shirt requires Investment (1 RP). And you have to have it to stay competitive because that rune boosts your AC, TAC, and Saves.
Are you sure it needs to be invested? The potency runes don't have the invested trait like other magic items? It looks like most magic armor and weapons that aren't specifically named falls under the constant abilities section. I really hope I'm not wrong. Because that means investing in my armor costs me 2 bombs, elixirs or poisoning 20 arrows/bolts. I don't know if I can manage that without becoming even more useless.
Are you sure it needs to be invested? The potency runes don't have the invested trait like other magic items? It looks like most magic armor and weapons that aren't specifically named falls under the constant abilities section. I really hope I'm not wrong. Because that means investing in my armor costs me 2 bombs, elixirs or poisoning 20 arrows/bolts. I don't know if I can manage that without becoming even more useless.
Everything but weapons. Even most alchemical items require resonance (except poisons).
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Are you sure it needs to be invested? The potency runes don't have the invested trait like other magic items? It looks like most magic armor and weapons that aren't specifically named falls under the constant abilities section. I really hope I'm not wrong. Because that means investing in my armor costs me 2 bombs, elixirs or poisoning 20 arrows/bolts. I don't know if I can manage that without becoming even more useless.Everything but weapons. Even most alchemical items require resonance (except poisons).
Bombs and Mutagens don't seem to cost RP to use, and I found the section that lists magic armor as invested. Alchemists really need to have a separate resource from RP to use with their alchemical items.
Bombs and Mutagens don't seem to cost RP to use, and I found the section that lists magic armor as invested. Alchemists really need to have a separate resource from RP to use with their alchemical items.Are you sure it needs to be invested? The potency runes don't have the invested trait like other magic items? It looks like most magic armor and weapons that aren't specifically named falls under the constant abilities section. I really hope I'm not wrong. Because that means investing in my armor costs me 2 bombs, elixirs or poisoning 20 arrows/bolts. I don't know if I can manage that without becoming even more useless.Everything but weapons. Even most alchemical items require resonance (except poisons).Mutagens require. They have operate activation.
Also, where did you saw that you can poison 10 arrows with 1 poison.
I can only see such a mention in potency runes, which poisons aren't.
I couldn't find anything that says how many pieces of ammo you can poison, but with silversheen can be applied to 10 pieces of ammo per dose. So my gm went with that for how many arrows I could poison per dose. I also wasn't aware the RP cost was tied to the operate action since it says elixirs require an RP to use in its section but bombs and mutagens had no such mention.
I now more than ever feel the Infused trait needs to make it not cost RP for anyone that uses it since the Alchemist has already paid the RP cost when making it.
Bombs and Mutagens don't seem to cost RP to use, and I found the section that lists magic armor as invested. Alchemists really need to have a separate resource from RP to use with their alchemical items.Are you sure it needs to be invested? The potency runes don't have the invested trait like other magic items? It looks like most magic armor and weapons that aren't specifically named falls under the constant abilities section. I really hope I'm not wrong. Because that means investing in my armor costs me 2 bombs, elixirs or poisoning 20 arrows/bolts. I don't know if I can manage that without becoming even more useless.Everything but weapons. Even most alchemical items require resonance (except poisons).Mutagens require. They have operate activation.
Also, where did you saw that you can poison 10 arrows with 1 poison.
I can only see such a mention in potency runes, which poisons aren't.
I couldn't find anything that says how many pieces of ammo you can poison, but with silversheen can be applied to 10 pieces of ammo per dose. So my gm went with that for how many arrows I could poison per dose. I also wasn't aware the RP cost was tied to the operate action since it says elixirs require an RP to use in its section but bombs and mutagens had no such mention.
I now more than ever feel the Infused trait needs to make it not cost RP for anyone that uses it since the Alchemist has already paid the RP cost when making it.
silversheen also stays for 1h on a melee weapon hacking and slashing at enemies, while Poison is only 1 strike.
I think the rules suggest that you can poison only 1 ammunition with each dose.
Magical arrows like sleep arrows and etc are also in singles and not tens of pieces.
So the only useful thing I did for the party was actually something I made stronger than intended by making that leap of logic. I really like the direction they tried to go and the flavor of the class. I just think its execution is incredibly flawed. Luckily its a playtest so fixes can be made.
I agree that every item made by the alchemist should be considered infused, and that an infused item shouldn't cost the user RP. The fighter doesn't have to pay for the Wizard's or Cleric's buffs.
The spells of a Wizard and Cleric are far more powerful than what the alchemist can create as the game goes on, so making the alchemists the generalist who can make A TON of stuff at a lower power scaling gives them a unique niche: The Wizard has only so many immense blast spells and the Cleric has only so many heal spells, but the Alchemists brings consistency and generous portions of sweet-sciency goodness even if each individual items doesn't pack the same punch.
Bombs should have intelligence to damage at level 1 or some other means of increasing their early game power. There is no difference in an alchemist's bomb versus what any other class might stumble upon or buy in the early levels. Maybe let them focus the bombs they make, letting the alchemist choose to forgo splash damage to increase the bomb's base damage die by a stage?
Why are the prepared batch sizes of Advanced Alchemy fixed? Bombs are far more disposable and function more as ammunition since they are lost after use, meanwhile the effects of a mutagen can linger for several rounds if not hours. Advanced Alchemy should allow you to prepare batch sizes of 3-4 Bombs, and 2 of every other alchemical item. An alchemist walking around with +10 bombs in the early levels is more akin to an archer with +10 arrows than anything else, and the alchemist still has to use an action to draw his bombs.
Better onset times for Mutagens would be great. It stinks having to spend a feat just to make a major class feature and item worthwhile in the midst of a tense encounter. I also agree that the alchemist's items should use their Class DC, and have their class DC increase to expert/master/legendary at the same levels as other classes.
Also, let alchemists get Quick Draw as a level 2 Feat instead of having to multiclass Rogue to play a bomb-focused alchemist.