Which Route Would be better for a Staff Magus?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

A Power Attack Route or a Two weapon Fighting Route? (This is on top of a trip build BTW)


Power attack only requires you to enhance one end of the quarterstaff for full effect, TWF requires both. Also you could use PA on the same round as spell combat if you have a way to cancel the penalty - furious focus or blade tutor's spirit. OTOH a multitouch spell like frostbite may like the extra opportunities to connect with TWF.

Though why and how are you going for either? Tripping can eat every feat you have and then some, besides the metamagic or other magic feats a magus wants. The damage bonus is relatively low for PA on a 3/4 BAB character and TWF adds attacks slowly for the same reason.


Magi need a free hand to cast spells, and cannot use spell combat with Two Weapon Fighting without being a 7th level Mindblade Magus. So I'd skip out on the Two Weapon Fighting route unless you don't plan on casting many spells during combat (which is the whole point of being a Magus).

The ability to buff and make a full attack on the same turn OR make a full attack + an extra attack with a Touch Spell imbued into your weapon is a huge draw about being a Magus. Power Attack can certainly up your damage, but you already have a penalty to hit whenever you use Spell Combat.

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:

Power attack only requires you to enhance one end of the quarterstaff for full effect, TWF requires both. Also you could use PA on the same round as spell combat if you have a way to cancel the penalty - furious focus or blade tutor's spirit. OTOH a multitouch spell like frostbite may like the extra opportunities to connect with TWF.

Though why and how are you going for either? Tripping can eat every feat you have and then some, besides the metamagic or other magic feats a magus wants. The damage bonus is relatively low for PA on a 3/4 BAB character and TWF adds attacks slowly for the same reason.

Cause right now my build has Dirty Fighting, Improved and greater trip, Weapon focus and specialization power attack and craft staff and i dont know where to go from here

This is the feat list i have cause i know im missing something.

Bonus class Feat:Quarterstaff Master
1. Dirty Fighting
Bonus Feat: Improved Trip
3.
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus(Quarterstaff)
5. Weapon specialization(Quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9.Greater Trip
Bonus Feat:Craft Staff
11.
13.
15


Lacking magic feats, right. 7th level is a great time to take empower spell for a magus, for those really big hits, especially if you have a metamagic cost reduction trait. Or intensify spell if you're going the shocking grasp route. Alternately if you take spell focus at level 3 you could fit in spell specialization then. A magus can get some use out of one of the ___ amplification feats. Elemental spell can avoid having an attack spell negated by elemental resistance or immunity. Or, rime spell + frostbite works by then even without metamagic reduction. If you're aiming for spell perfection at L15 then you need 3 metamagic feats before then, e.g. Empower spell, intensify spell & quicken spell, or tenacious spell for that last if your GM likes dispels.

On the other hand there are ways to make PA help with tripping; PA at L3, furious focus at L7, felling smash at L11 would work for you. Or if you take improved unarmed strike at L3, wolf style at L7, wolf trip at L11 that might work. Or tripping staff at L11 (for the spellstrike on combat maneuvers) which might have you hunting further bonuses to trip combat maneuvers like fury's fall or disorienting maneuver.


If you want to be great at tripping as a staff magus you should have the WAND WIELDER arcana. Get yourself a wand of true-strike and you can pretty much auto-trip one enemy per round (This is almost a must-have arcana for a staff magus after level 10).

If you already have that then ... I dunno Power Attack I guess? I wouldn't take TWF, between wands/staves/spells you have enough going on with your off-hand that WTF doesn't seem like the best use of your time. In the rounds where you're not casting you can two-hand your staff and get more from power attack.


Quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon. How could you work in the wand every round? I'm probably missing some vital detail.


Nomad Sage wrote:
Quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon. How could you work in the wand every round? I'm probably missing some vital detail.

STAFF MAGUS gets the Quarterstaff Master feat at level 1, which allows them to use a quarterstaff 1-handed.

Silver Crusade

Nomad Sage wrote:
Quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon. How could you work in the wand every round? I'm probably missing some vital detail.

Wand wielder works for wands AND staffs so you would basically be using the staff you already are using one handed.


Ahhh, yeah... nice!


avr wrote:

Power attack only requires you to enhance one end of the quarterstaff for full effect, TWF requires both.

...

Very true. My Staff Magus does occasionally use a quarterstaff as a double weapon, however. One end has as high an Enhancement Bonus as he can afford as well as Spell Storing. The other end is a +1 Spell Storing Weapon. He uses his Arcane Pool to improve the primary end and, when needed, uses Greater Magic Weapon on the +1 end. So the secondary end isn't very expensive at all. There aren't any penalties for using both ends of the quarterstaff so long as you aren't trying to get the extra attacks from TWF, so the Magus can use Spellstrike to deliver charges held over from previous rounds while also delivering two spells from the Spell Storing at either end. It isn't a frequently used option, but it does make for a nice "nova" round when needed.


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
avr wrote:

Power attack only requires you to enhance one end of the quarterstaff for full effect, TWF requires both. Also you could use PA on the same round as spell combat if you have a way to cancel the penalty - furious focus or blade tutor's spirit. OTOH a multitouch spell like frostbite may like the extra opportunities to connect with TWF.

Though why and how are you going for either? Tripping can eat every feat you have and then some, besides the metamagic or other magic feats a magus wants. The damage bonus is relatively low for PA on a 3/4 BAB character and TWF adds attacks slowly for the same reason.

Cause right now my build has Dirty Fighting, Improved and greater trip, Weapon focus and specialization power attack and craft staff and i dont know where to go from here

This is the feat list i have cause i know im missing something.

Bonus class Feat:Quarterstaff Master
1. Dirty Fighting
Bonus Feat: Improved Trip
3.
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus(Quarterstaff)
5. Weapon specialization(Quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9.Greater Trip
Bonus Feat:Craft Staff
11.
13.
15

I really like using Intimidate with a Staff Magus. The Bruising Intellect Trait (social) will let you use Int rather than Cha for Intimidate Checks. Since you are already taking Power Attack, Cornugan Smash is a great choice to use Intimidate. (Alternatively you could use Enforcer combined with a method for dealing nonlethal damage.)

Ways to deal nonlethal damage with a Quarterstaff:

Traits
Mock Gladiator (social): any one weapon, but sadly conflicts with Bruising Intellect.

Feats
Bludgeoner (combat): all bludgeoning weapons
Stage Combatant (combat): any weapon for which you have Weapon Focus
Virtuous Creed - Mercy (general): all weapons

Weapon Special Abilities
Merciful: any weapon

Adding Cruel to your quarterstaff is nice with this build.

----------

A couple more Traits that I really like for a Staff Magus:
-Armor Expert (combat): You don't get the Medium and Heavy Armor abilities of most Magi, but this trait will let you use a Mithral Breastplate at no penalty without taking a feat.
-Monk Weapon Skill (combat): Since a quarterstaff is a Monk weapon this trait grants you a +1 bonus to damage. Half as good as Weapon Specialization and they stack.

If you take the Additional Traits Feat to get Bruising Intellect, either of these would be good for the other trait.

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If you are taking Craft Staff, you might also want to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor. You'll need it to make some Magical Staves (the ones that hold spells and have Enhancement Bonuses), and it is useful at lower levels for making magical quarterstaves (the plain old weapons that don't cast spells). Being able to make your own armor is a nice bonus.


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If you have a decent dex bonus fury's fall is also a great feat for a trip build. If you plan on using enlarge person for reach, combat reflexes can be great as well.

With the familiar arcana there are various ways to build a familiar to give yourself a flanking partner.

Going for a second maneuver style so you have something besides just damage against trip immune foes can be a good strategy, I find dirty trick to be the most versatile. Disarm probably has better synergy, but most trip immune things probably won't be effected by disarm either.

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