Title pretty much sums it up...
3 absolutely necessary feats for:
Paladin:
A.
B.
C.
Bard:
A.
B.
C.
I have Lingering Performance and Discordant Voice as two of my "essential" Bard feats, but I want to know what you guys think are important for each of these classes.
Any input will be appreciated.
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It depends greatly on the role they are trying to fulfil and the build.
I don't think there are any 'must have' feats for either class.
need more information. A paladin planning to play tanky support is going to need very different feats than one playing an archer build.
neither class has any must haves for every build.
In my particular case, I'm gestalting an Oath of Vengeance Paladin with an Arcane Duelist Bard.
Typical longspear/Flagbearer/Banner of Ancient Kings chassis.
No extra feats to pick gifted by either class, so I need the minimum for each class to be effective at both.
Extra Lay on Hands gets one extra use of Smite Evil for an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, which makes it "essential" more likely than not.
The two classes/archetypes combined give me swift action Arcane Strike and standard action Divine Bond, and I have the Wizard's Arcane Bond with the weapon, as well.
Oath of Vengeance also puts Blessing of Fervor on my spell list, which is nice.
Oddly enough, my role in the party is buffs/healing first, tank/damage second.
Arcane Duelist grants me Arcane Strike, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Penetrating Strike, and Greater Penetrating Strike to cover most offensive duties, and should be adequate when combined with Divine Bond and Smite Evil.
Anyways, that's my situation. Maybe that context will make some feats more "essential" than others.
I feel like there aren’t really many must have feats for any class it depends on builds
I will say lingering performance feels like a must have for any bard that doesn’t take up an archetype that gives away performance
Right now I have:
Half Elf abusing Multitalented for FCB in both classes.
3 traits, 1 drawback
Traits:
Reactionary, Memorable, Optimistic Gambler
1. Arcane Strike
1. Noble Scion (Scion of War)
.. Initiative based on Charisma, not Dex
2. Combat Casting
3. Improved Initiative
5. Lingering Performance
6. Disruptive
7. Extra Lay on Hands
9. Flagbearer
10. Spellbreaker
11. Discordant Voice
13. ?
14. Penetrating Strike
15. ?
17. ?
18. Greater Penetrating Strike
19. ?
Power attack. You're going melee and are a full-bab chassis, so you want power attack.
Totally depends on the build. For an archery build, for instance, Precise Shot is at the top of the priority list (hello there, Divine Hunter!). I agree with Dave Justus, these are no must-have feats for these classes, but there certainly are must-have feats for specific builds.
You're really gonna want for swift actions, later on. Between starting a performance, smite, arcane strike, all are swift actions. just something to consider. not necessarily bad, but something to keep in mind.
Paladin doesnt need a lot of support to do what it does. buffs and stuff is covered by bard, and you probably could use the DPR support of power attack with all the tohit bonuses you have anyways.
This is actually the first character I have ever built without Power Attack at level One. Lol.
Noble Scion has to be taken at level 1, and I could probably do away with Improved Initiative at level 3, to put PA there. But I really want to go first to get my buffs up before the archer (Warpriest/Ranger with 13 bonus combat feats) starts killing everything.
And a Bard can start his Performance as a swift action after level 13, doesn't say he must. To my understanding, he has the choice of starting a Performance as a standard, move, or swift action because he can choose at his convenience which action to use depending on the situation.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Half Elf abusing Multitalented for FCB in both classes.
You might want to double check with your GM on that. I have usually seen gestalt as being considered sort of a single class so you are a level 1 Paladin-Bard for example. You can't get the favored class bonus more than once per level.
I can alternate if it's a problem to do both simultaneously.
Instead of increasing my aura radius by 20', it will be +10'.
Instead of 20 extra rounds of Performance, it will also be 10.
I can live with that if it's a point of contention.
yeah, if youre spending FCB on extra performance, I'd lose lingering as a feat. you really dont need it, especially if youre careful on mop up rounds and such
Compared to Noble Scion of War for Charisma based initiative, no way am I taking Fey Foundling at level 1. There are feats I can take any time later to heal myself my own charisma modifier every time I heal someone else.
What do people think about Dimensional Dervish?
Riving strike and curnagon smash to add some debuffing in with your buffing maybe?
If I drop or postpone Lingering Performance, and stick Power Attack in its place:
1. Arcane Strike
1. Noble Scion of War
2. Combat Casting
3. Improved Initiative
5. Power Attack
6. Disruptive
7. Extra LoH
9. Flagbearer
10. Spellbreaker
11. Discordant Voice
13. Dimensional Agility
14. Penetrating Strike
15. Dimensional Assault
17. Dimensional Dervish
18. Greater Penetrating Strike
19. Dimensional Savant?
I don't have dimension door until level 10, but the move/attack options from Dimensional Dervish would be really beneficial for my character. Not necessary, but beneficial. Maybe not worth 3 feats in a feat starved build, though.
Opinions on this build using Dimensional Dervish...?
Dimensional dervish is great, but takes a bunch of feats and a pretty high level spell for a bard. You could probably find something more effective to do with the feats (like more LoH or a combat maneuver), but you might struggle finding anything cooler.
At the higher levels I think that combat maneuvers get less effective, and actual maneuverability becomes more paramount.
I could also grab the Eldritch Heritage feats, orc blooded gives Strength bonuses and the ability to grow in size. That's also a three feat investment. And it can prove to be a substantial increase in damage, but does nothing for maneuverability
I put some thought into the Blessing of Fervor spell gifted by the Oath to Vengeance archetype, along with the Prayer spell the Paladin gets. These are big pre-buffs with the Extend Spell feat, probably worth more overall than having Power Attack.
Half Elf
Dual Minded: +2 Will saves
Elven Immunities: sleep effects, +2 against charms
Mismatched: -2 Reflex save, +4 Initiative
Drawback (I don't want to be King)
Anxious: -2 Diplomacy, soft spoken
Traits
Memorable: mind-affecting effects last 1 round longer
Magical Lineage: Blessing of Fervor
Metamagic Master: Prayer
1. Arcane Strike
1. Noble Scion of War
2. Combat Casting
3. Improved Initiative
5. Extra LoH
6. Disruptive
7. Extend Spell
9. Flagbearer
10. Spellbreaker
11. Discordant Voice
13. Dimensional Agility
14. Penetrating Strike
15. Dimensional Assault
17. Dimensional Dervish
18. Greater Penetrating Strike
19. Dimensional Savant
What do you think? Starved for 3rd level spells given that a lot of my abilities focus on 3rd level spells, but with all the other buffs available from Performing and auras and stuff, I can pre-buff both Prayer and Blessings of Fervor, and still cast Haste, later still getting some use out of Dimensional Dervish even if I use all three of the others. I don't know, though. This is my first character without Power Attack, and my first character without Charisma as a dump stat. Input appreciated.
Paladin:
A. Fey Foundling
B. Greater Mercy
C. Power Attack
Bard:
A. Noble Scion (War)
B. Improved Initiative
C. Quick Draw (especially if doing the flagbearer thing)
Paladin:
A. Fey Foundling
B. Greater Mercy
C. Power Attack
Bard:
A. Noble Scion (War)
B. Improved Initiative
C. Quick Draw (especially if doing the flagbearer thing)
I would have to be Human to take Fey Foundling and Noble Scion of War at level one. I don't need QuickDraw with Flagbearer since I am both a bard and using a Longspear, the Banner of Ancient Kings is literally flying from my weapon, no switching required. Those probably answer the question in the title, but do not fit the context established in the rest of the thread.
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Paladin:
A. Point Black Shot
B. Precision
C. Rapid Shot
Bard:
A. Way of the Shooting Star
B. Point Blank Shot
C. Weapon Focus (Starknife)
Can't really use the starknife and Flagbearer/Banner of Ancient Kings, though. It's pretty specific about a Bard with a Longspear.
Fearless Aura is good. Especially with the Half Elf FCB increasing the radius of aura class features. Immunity to fear for everyone is nice.
However, I need to examine the benefits of having Extend Spell for pre-buffing Prayer or Blessing of Fervor, against overall immunity from fear for everyone in my aura.
The Half Elf FCB increasing the radius of aura class features would already benefit the Aura of Courage's range without the feat.
Is a +4 bonus against fear good enough when I can also pre-buff Prayer and/or Blessing of Fervor?
I don't have access to either of those spells until level 11. And this would almost certainly make Fearless Aura more useful earlier EXCEPT, for whatever reason, Fearless Aura has a CL 8 prerequisite.
Can't really use the starknife and Flagbearer/Banner of Ancient Kings, though. It's pretty specific about a Bard with a Longspear.
I don't use any of those on my favorite bard build.
I prefer to pick up TWF and Startoss Style so I can switch hit while enjoying CHA bonuses on my to-hit and damage.