Spy vs. Spy: Envoy and Operative


Advice


So, this might be an easy call because I'm not seeing something, but this week has been a long month and I'm trying to make sense of something I hope the group can help with.

Envoy Clever Feint and Operative Trick Attack: both apply the Flat Footed condition. If I have both an Envoy and Operative in the party, is it worth it to pursue the Envoy Clever Feint/ Clever Attack route since the Operative will already be applying the Flat Footed condition and these conditions won't stack?

It seems to make sense to me to yield to the Operative Trick/Debilitating Attack since it does a ton of damage, whereas the Envoy sort of "plink plinks" weapon damage.

But if the Envoy is in a support role, and part of that support role is applying the Flat Footed condition, but the conditions from the Operative and Envoy don't stack...well, I hope you see where I'm going LOL.

Of course, the problem assumes both the Envoy and Operative are successful, but it's rare that our Operative seems to miss the roll to make a trick attack considering the very high skill bonuses.

Thanks, and looking forward to hearing from more powerful minds than mine!


I believe that the Envoy's Clever Feint applies to all attacks made on the target, but Trick Attack only applies to the Operative's attack.

The Operative isn't buffing the party, it is buffing only itself. The Envoy buffs everybody.


Dracomicron wrote:

I believe that the Envoy's Clever Feint applies to all attacks made on the target, but Trick Attack only applies to the Operative's attack.

The Operative isn't buffing the party, it is buffing only itself. The Envoy buffs everybody.

That's only true until the Operative gets an upgrade with Debilitating Attack.

As far as the original point, it might be worthwhile to make two targets flatfooted at the same time in many fights.


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If there's an envoy providing flat footed, the operative can instead choose to provide off-target with their debilitating trick. Alternatively, high level operatives might try to apply bleed, staggered or stunned instead.

While there is overlap in class design, that doesn't mean there has to be overlap in combat. An envoy/operative 2-man team can set up for their allies with:
- Envoy uses Improved Get 'Em, Clever Attack: Allies get +2 to hit, Enemy takes -2 AC.
- Operative uses trick attack and applies off-target.

Total buff/debuff: Enemy has -2 to hit, equivalent of -4 to AC.
Soldier/Solarian go to town on it.

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