I would love it if Feats were treated the same way as Spells. Here is how it could work.
Each Class has a certain number of Feat spots available per level. You can put a Feat in a higher level slot for a greater effect.
Thoughts?
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No. This is going down the road of "all classes are effectively the same and the only significant difference is in flavor and potentially the assigned role of a class". Already had a game like that (Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition). D&D 4e contributed significantly to the momentum that helped turn Pathfinder into a success and it was this particular point that was one of the big issues.
While I don't agree with John too often regarding pf2/4e similarities. On this I definitely do. Treating feats as spells is what leads to a horrible homogenization of classes.
Thank you for the feedback.
Help me understand the comparison between my recommendation and D&D 4e.
Maybe an example would help. Imagine, in this idea, that Improved Trip is a Feat you could fit into a Level 1 Feat Slot. You could "heighten" it by putting it in higher Feat slots over time, which would improve the Feat (removing a penalty, adding a bonus, letting you trip larger creatures, etc.), and then fit a different Feat into the lower-level slot that you freed up. During a Downtime, you could shuffle your Feats.
Does that make more sense?
And if it still sounds like it's a problem, could you unpack how it is a problem? And whether you feel spells in PF2 have the same problem?
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Yeah, going to agree, this would be terrible.
I'd rather most feats just scale with level or proficiency. So your Iron Will feat does more and more as you become Trained, Expert, Master and Legend in Will saves. Your Power Attack feat does more extra dice of damage as your level or weapon proficiency improves. Your racial feat granting you a cantrip or spell allows that cantrip or spell to scale as if you were a caster of your character level. Etc
Some feats of course have an effect that is naturally independent of level and always useful, like feats that manipulate how you use your actions, and so don't have to scale.
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Thank you for the feedback.
Help me understand the comparison between my recommendation and D&D 4e.
The problem isn't a direct correlation between 4e and your proposal. It isn't a case of "they used this mechanic in 4e and so your idea is bad". The problem is "you're turning martial abilities to directly mimic spells" which is exactly what 4e did (martial abilities in 4e behaved exactly the same as spells) and it resulted in all the classes feeling very samey.
Basically I want to see different classes feel and play differently. If every class is basically preparing/slotting a list of abilities you've collapsed the design space dramatically.
The problem isn't a direct correlation between 4e and your proposal. It isn't a case of "they used this mechanic in 4e and so your idea is bad". The problem is "you're turning martial abilities to directly mimic spells" which is exactly what 4e did (martial abilities in 4e behaved exactly the same as spells) and it resulted in all the classes feeling very samey.Thank you for the feedback.
Help me understand the comparison between my recommendation and D&D 4e.
I can see that being a concern. I ran D&D 4e from level 1-30, and boy, how well do I recall that sensation. ("This attack hits everyone in a 3x3 square around you for 2d8 damage." Is it a wizard lightning burst? or a fighter making a massive frenzied swing? It could be either!)
I definitely don't want Feats to just feel like another form of magic renamed, but I do want to capture that same kind of compact expression that magic gets. I love the example of how Heal scales depending on which slot you put it in. It saves the time of coming up with more spells that are basically Heal+, Heal++, Heal+++. I would love to see that same principle applied to Feats. I would love it if somebody could just pick up a single Trip Feat which can, in some way, improve as the adventurer improves. As opposed to filling slots with Feats that become outdated and having to search through large lists of Feats.
While I still like the idea I suggested as a way to handle that, I think Fuzzypaws' idea below also sounds like a good one.
I'd rather most feats just scale with level or proficiency. So your Iron Will feat does more and more as you become Trained, Expert, Master and Legend in Will saves. Your Power Attack feat does more extra dice of damage as your level or weapon proficiency improves. Your racial feat granting you a cantrip or spell allows that cantrip or spell to scale as if you were a caster of your character level. EtcSome feats of course have an effect that is naturally independent of level and always useful, like feats that manipulate how you use your actions, and so don't have to scale.
Yeah, I'm fully behind more feats auto-scaling like power attack does.
I am down with auto scaling, but not treating feats as spells, at least not default for how feats work. I could MAYBE see creating a specific class that does something maybe like this I suppose, as a part of its mechanics
I am down with auto scaling, but not treating feats as spells, at least not default for how feats work. I could MAYBE see creating a specific class that does something maybe like this I suppose, as a part of its mechanics
As a class feature, that would be a good way to do classes with weeaboo fightan magick without running afoul of BoNS not actually being in the OGL.
As a class feature, that would be a good way to do classes with weeaboo fightan magick without running afoul of BoNS not actually being in the OGL.
I believe the 3PP Path of War product covered the same sort of material? Good chance that'll get republished and adapted for PF2.