I have been hearing that 2e will have stat increases similar to Starfinder's. But were was this stated officially?
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Level up blog:
"You'll also amp up several of your ability scores every 5 levels. The process might be familiar to those of you who've been playing Starfinder for the last several months! There are, of course, a few tweaks, and we made all ability boosts work the same way instead of being different at 1st level. Learn it once, use it in perpetuity."
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Could someone describe or link to a description of Starfinder stat increases? I'm not familiar.
At 5th and every 5 levels thereafter, you get a bonus to 4 stats. It the stat is currently 16 or lower pre-boost, it's a +2. If it's higher than that it's a +1.
Of course, Starfinder still has stat-boost items, so they might well get rid of the 'half bonus at high stat' thing if there are none in PF2.
Are they keeping stat boosters in PF2? I hope not.
Starfinder's stat boosters don't take up body slots or anything. So I don't have a problem with them compared to the PF version which take up body space which could be used for a more flavorful and interesting item.
They've definitely signaled that they do not want "Big Six" items that every adventurer must purchase. Of those "Big Six", I'd say the "Big Two" that were the most necessary of all were headbands and belts. So to me that is implying that stat-boosting items won't exist at all.
Are they keeping stat boosters in PF2? I hope not.
They are probably going to do away with Big 6 items, and either rebalance the game without them, or incorporate the Automatic Bonus Progression rules from Unchained to compensate.
My guess is more the former than the latter.
The slot taking didnt bother me of stat boosters. It's the mandatory have or the system doesn't work feature is what I loathe. Just bake it into leveling FFS.
Why so many stat increases? I'm not a fan of the escalation of power and increase separation between higher and lower levels. The resulting stat modifier changes can really stack up.
Normally I'd just ignore a change like this, but this kind of thing will end up in Hero Lab and get propagated into my story via automation without giving me a way to turn it off.
They've definitely signaled that they do not want "Big Six" items that every adventurer must purchase. Of those "Big Six", I'd say the "Big Two" that were the most necessary of all were headbands and belts. So to me that is implying that stat-boosting items won't exist at all.
*Cough* Ioun Stones *Cough*
I'm a tad worried about the powers spike of multiple stats increasing at once. It'll be interesting to see how the stat arrays look
If the stat increases were staggered over the course of those levels instead of having a huge gap difference between a 4th level and a 5th level character, it wouldn't be that bad.
4 +2(1) stat boosts at one level up does seem a significant boost. A lot of the impact will depend how much proficiency takes a bite out of ability mod dependence in PF2 I suppose.
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If the stat increases were staggered over the course of those levels instead of having a huge gap difference between a 4th level and a 5th level character, it wouldn't be that bad.
I can of course see why the non-linierity would be bothersome but personally I kind of like it happening every five level because it feels like a mini capstone for that section of adventure.
Regional heroes lvl 1-5 at lvl 5 get your stat increases then face the bandit king.
Continental heroes lvl 6-10 at lvl 10 get your stat increases and take down the generals of the invading kingdom.
World Heroes lvl 11-15 at lvl 15 get your stat increases and take down the world eating dragon
Additionally I think they are trying to balance this with complexity. Because to avoid putting all the stats in the same ability score you would need language such as:
At second level increase one stat by two. And third level increase a different stat by two. At fourth level increase a stat that has not yet been increased by two and at fifth level increase a fourth stat that has not been increased by two. etc.
vs.
At fifth level increase four different stats by two.
Though there might be a more clear way to word that.
If the stat increases were staggered over the course of those levels instead of having a huge gap difference between a 4th level and a 5th level character, it wouldn't be that bad.I can of course see why the non-linierity would be bothersome but personally I kind of like it happening every five level because it feels like a mini capstone for that section of adventure.
Regional heroes lvl 1-5 at lvl 5 get your stat increases then face the bandit king.
Continental heroes lvl 6-10 at lvl 10 get your stat increases and take down the generals of the invading kingdom.
World Heroes lvl 11-15 at lvl 15 get your stat increases and take down the world eating dragon
Additionally I think they are trying to balance this with complexity. Because to avoid putting all the stats in the same ability score you would need language such as:
At second level increase one stat by two. And third level increase a different stat by two. At fourth level increase a stat that has not yet been increased by two and at fifth level increase a fourth stat that has not been increased by two. etc.
vs.
At fifth level increase four different stats by two.
Though there might be a more clear way to word that.
Well it's just a minor amount of bookkeeping to have the player keep track of which level they raised which stat if you raise them every level. I already have my players keep track of which level they get each feat, because it makes it easier to tell which comes from leveling, which is a class bonus, which is an error and shouldn't be on the sheet, etc. The PF2 character sheet could in fact just have on the back of it a numbered 1-20 line list for filling in class abilities, feats, ability score increases and so on.
Though I wonder what "tweaks" they made from the Starfinder version?
Well regardless I do like stat points and getting just 5 stats points over the course 20 levels was really lacking.
If the stat increases were staggered over the course of those levels instead of having a huge gap difference between a 4th level and a 5th level character, it wouldn't be that bad.I can of course see why the non-linierity would be bothersome but personally I kind of like it happening every five level because it feels like a mini capstone for that section of adventure.
Regional heroes lvl 1-5 at lvl 5 get your stat increases then face the bandit king.
Continental heroes lvl 6-10 at lvl 10 get your stat increases and take down the generals of the invading kingdom.
World Heroes lvl 11-15 at lvl 15 get your stat increases and take down the world eating dragon
Additionally I think they are trying to balance this with complexity. Because to avoid putting all the stats in the same ability score you would need language such as:
At second level increase one stat by two. And third level increase a different stat by two. At fourth level increase a stat that has not yet been increased by two and at fifth level increase a fourth stat that has not been increased by two. etc.
vs.
At fifth level increase four different stats by two.
Though there might be a more clear way to word that.
Not all adventures work like that, and straight-jacketing level boosts like that makes gameplay pretty predictable (and therefore boring).
A simple "You may only select one given attribute to increase every 5 levels" clause can fix the lengthy complex wording issue.
If the stat increases were staggered over the course of those levels instead of having a huge gap difference between a 4th level and a 5th level character, it wouldn't be that bad.I can of course see why the non-linierity would be bothersome but personally I kind of like it happening every five level because it feels like a mini capstone for that section of adventure.
Regional heroes lvl 1-5 at lvl 5 get your stat increases then face the bandit king.
Continental heroes lvl 6-10 at lvl 10 get your stat increases and take down the generals of the invading kingdom.
World Heroes lvl 11-15 at lvl 15 get your stat increases and take down the world eating dragon
Additionally I think they are trying to balance this with complexity. Because to avoid putting all the stats in the same ability score you would need language such as:
At second level increase one stat by two. And third level increase a different stat by two. At fourth level increase a stat that has not yet been increased by two and at fifth level increase a fourth stat that has not been increased by two. etc.
vs.
At fifth level increase four different stats by two.
Though there might be a more clear way to word that.
Not all adventures work like that, and straight-jacketing level boosts like that makes gameplay pretty predictable (and therefore boring).
A simple "You may only select one given attribute to increase every 5 levels" clause can fix the lengthy complex wording issue.
Good points
I don't see how getting more stat points would be boring. Getting four +2 stat bumps sounds awesome to me at level 5(or any level).
Why so many stat increases? I'm not a fan of the escalation of power and increase separation between higher and lower levels. The resulting stat modifier changes can really stack up.
The designers have stated this as a design goal, essentially. Pathfinder has always been a game where you bcome kind of a superhero at higher levels, and that's not going to change now. To me, that's a boon, but it may not be for you.
I think the big difference is they are removing the big 6 items from the equation and just making your ability scores scale more, so magic items can do interesting things instead of being necessary to keep up with the math of the game.
Considering how many people complain that Resonance is too fiddly, I can only imagine how many people would be there excited to have to keep chronological track of what attributes they increased in which order. Doing multiple at once every few levels is much simpler and less tedious.
I don't see how getting more stat points would be boring. Getting four +2 stat bumps sounds awesome to me at level 5(or any level).
Well if its i'm better at hitting, dodging, skilling my opponents by +2 though my newest opponents are better at stopping my fighting, dodging, skilling by +2 its pretty damn boring.
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Hopefully unlike Starfinder you get a +2 to a stat regardless if it is less then or more then a 16.
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Hopefully unlike Starfinder you get a +2 to a stat regardless if it is less then or more then a 16.
I wouldn't be too hopeful. Judging by the bolded bit below, I would guess that the +2/+1 ability boost rule will be universal in the playtest, including level 1 adjustments from ancestries (so no more Int 20 Elves at level 1). What else could the bold part refer to?
You'll also amp up several of your ability scores every 5 levels. The process might be familiar to those of you who've been playing Starfinder for the last several months! There are, of course, a few tweaks, and we made all ability boosts work the same way instead of being different at 1st level. Learn it once, use it in perpetuity.
(For the record, I like the rule and applying it universally seems fine to me.)
Then how does it work at first level then? And if is that different then why compare it to starfinder's method?
Then how does it work at first level then? And if is that different then why compare it to starfinder's method?
I have been really curious about this as well. I was playing with numbers and something like start with an 8 in all attributes, add ancestry modifiers and then three sets of attribute bonuses would work okay generates stats from 16 to 6.
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Again, I don't know Starfinder at all, but I took the bolded part to be talking specifically about the adjustments to starting stats that come from ancestry. So:
PF1 Elf, 18 Int from point-buy or rolling. Then racial ability boost takes that to 20 Int to start.
Playtest Elf, 18 Int from point-buy or rolling. Then ancestry ability boost takes that to 19 Int to start.
But who knows?
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A hint from the Goblin Blog:
In addition to the story behind the goblin, its ancestry entry has a lot of other information as well to help you make a goblin player character. It includes the base goblin ability boosts (Dexterity and Charisma), ability flaw (Wisdom), bonus Hit Points (6), base speed (25 feet), and starting languages (Common and Goblin), as well as the rules for darkvision (an ability that lets goblins see in the dark just as well as they can see in normal light). Those are just the basics—the rules shared by all goblins. Beyond that, your goblin's unique ancestry allows you to choose one ability score other than Dexterity or Charisma to receive a boost. Perhaps you have some hobgoblin blood and have an additional boost to Constitution, or you descend from a long line of goblin alchemists and have a boost to Intelligence. You could even gain a boost in Wisdom to negate your flaw!
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They've stated that stats are bought organically through character creation, which goes Ancestry, Background, then Class.
So my bet would be that you get your Ancestry bonuses first, then bonuses for Background, then possibly bonuses for Class, and then finally some number of points to round things out.
Which works fine, IMO.
It looks like the Big Six have a holdover in Starfinder -- there are the synaptic accelerators (I think that's what they're called) to increase an ability score by +2, +4, +6 depending on the Mark of the item.
+2 vs +1 when increasing ability scores is really annoying with odd ability scores doing pretty much nothing. In starfinder you can start with 18 14 in two stats and at level 5 boost them to 19 18, which has no benefit over rebuilding the character at level 5 to have 18 18. It's annoying to have a character be strictly better at some levels and worse at others.
Power now for power later isn't a fun concept in play. Just have all boosts give +2 and limit the number of boosts, at least then we won't have to have odd ability scores.