Greetings!
I have a concept in the making that needs help in order to be brought into life. In the future we'll be starting up Rise of the Runelords, and I wanted to play a Shoanti Human of the cleric class and really embrace the "one with nature/Fish out of water in urban society"-theme, as is one of my favorite type of roles to play.
My character is a 6'3" (190 cm) young woman and among the warrior-shamans (Clerics) of the Lyrune-Quah/Moon Clan, shaped by the rugged landscapes of the Cinderlands. She's strong, capable of fighting in melee, practicing magic, and enduring and maneuvering through the wilderness. Upon ending up in Sandpoint she feels uncomfortable being perceived as a barbarian or "savage" by some due to her height or mannerisms, despite Shoanti society in itself not lacking in civility or advance, just practices culture in a different way.
Her stats ended up looking like this (15 point buy):
Str: 17 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 14 Cha: 7
I planned on running her build along the lines of a really cool build I found in one thread here on the boards, utilizing the Wolf Domain (druid) and Anger Inquisition with the separatist archetype. People might dispute the legality of this, and I'll have to say: Don't worry! - Our games sometimes even allow 3rd party material and home-brewed solutions to be used (within reasoned evaluation, of course), as encounters are usually always beefed to make them "more interesting", anyways. Our GM usually hints that we need all the help we can get, so we have to be smart about things.
The Wolf domain caught my interest in particular. It grants Improved Trip for free which is precisely what I'll want seeing as I'm interested in using a spear. The Exotic Weapon Totem-Spear to be exact, something I home-brewed in as a deity favored weapon seeing as my Cleric practices totem worship. The "Bloodhound" domain-spell is also extremely flavorful, as is "Aspect of the Wolf" which will be available as a 3rd lvl spell, boosting her physical stats nicely. All in all, this fits quite well for a battle Cleric and especially for what I had in mind. I wanted her to be this big mama-wolf of the party, after all.
Long winded introduction aside; here comes my actual questions(!):
Two of my co-players has hinted that their plans are to play heavily melee focused characters, thus making me feel that a melee focused Cleric would be a bit superfluous. It has me thinking I should change my build to being more support-oriented, something that I'm not initially against. I haven't played a Cleric before and their potential for buffing, healing and aiding their allies through divine magic is something I'd love to explore.
I'd still like to keep the spear, the wolf domain and the build leaning towards a rugged nature-forged human, if possible, though I am very well aware that a Cleric is not a class that gets to have cake and then eat it to. It's one or the other, right?
One conclusion that popped into my mind is the possibility of me simply playing a different class. If anything, a Ranger seems far more suited for this type of character - Though I'd very much love to have divine magic from the get-go. I've also played a ranger before. Part of me wants to avoid the druid as it doesn't seem they benefit from the wolf domain in quite the same way as a Cleric would.
So if possible, A Cleric with a nature (preferably wolven) persuasion with a spear that supports and fights?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you for the generous feedback, Scott!
You raise a few great points and offer some great tips! First of all I should probably have mentioned that I plan on taking dirty fighter as a feat on lvl 1, so I already have that covered.
The totem spear is a 1d10 slashing/piercing weapon with a 10 foot reach that gives a few small & random bonuses. With improved trip countering many of the tripping hazards, I think I'm pretty much safe. While the horsechopper is certainly nice, it's hardly thematically fitting seeing as it is a weapon favored by Goblins, a recurring menace in the campaign. A variant of the spear seems more suitable for the tribal-themed shoanti Cleric. I also won't have the martial weapon proficiency as a cleric.
Otherwise, the feat suggestions are a bundle of help. I'll run them by the two other players.
EDIT: Something I am curious about though, is if the suggested statblock is suitable for a more support oriented Cleric? As it is, it looks more like something a battle cleric would prefer. I did consider perhaps swapping the Wisdom and Strength stats around, hoping it would do the trick. But then again, there is also the lack of charisma limiting me to one channel a day.
Not really much to add, but I would worship one of the eldest if you want to be a cleric that isn't particularly beholden to a God. The lore specifically says that the clerics of eldest are like oracles and are just granted power.
As far as the stats go, while you want more charisma if you want to use channeling, the rest are fine. A healing and buffing cleric only needs enough wisdom to cast their spells and maybe to get a bonus spell slot. Save DCs aren't an issue.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have an evangelist cleric of Gozreh with growth domain and a long spear. He is also a native with dreadlocks and a huge beard. He smokes cigars to keep the bees in his beard dormant.
Works really well with a few melee in front with better AC.
Maybe some of this could be relevant for you.
I had a trip build cleric and they were quite effective, so long as I had someone in front of me. I only ran into problems when I "became" the front line but it doesn't sound like that should be a problem for you
I would suggest taking the Growth domain instead of Anger Inquisition. You hopefully won't be getting hit very much and enlarge person + a reach weapon = 15ft reach w/o feats.
as pointed out all of the good reach/tripping weapons are martial weapons. So, in that line you have two options, you can either spend a feat to gain proficiency in it or you can take a one level dip in fighter.
The fighter dip not only frees up a feat but actually gives you another feat to work with. However, it does mean that you'll be slightly behind on your cleric abilities.
So, it really depends if you need the extra 2 feats or not.
I've settled for the Growth domain. That really was a catch! The build I planned on following actually had a convoluted way of acquiring Enlarge Person and this solves it, freeing up a few levels. The Cleric might not be proficient with martial weapons, but Gozreh's divine weapon happens to be the Trident - close enough?
I also decided on boosting Wisdom over Strength. Fighter dip is tempting (More feats to round out the character) - though I fear I'll regret it when I have to postpone the 4th and 5th level spells. Decisions, Decisions..
|
as pointed out all of the good reach/tripping weapons are martial weapons. So, in that line you have two options, you can either spend a feat to gain proficiency in it or you can take a one level dip in fighter.
A third option would be to find a god with a reach weapon as their favored weapon, but there aren't any that combine access to the Growth sub-domain and a favored weapon with reach, as far as I can tell.
And the Separatist archetype, a possible fix (since it lets you choose a non-traditional domain), specifically doesn't grant a favored weapon, so that's neatly boxed off... Grr!
as pointed out all of the good reach/tripping weapons are martial weapons. So, in that line you have two options, you can either spend a feat to gain proficiency in it or you can take a one level dip in fighter.A third option would be to find a god with a reach weapon as their favored weapon, but there aren't any that combine access to the Growth sub-domain and a favored weapon with reach, as far as I can tell.
And the Separatist archetype, a possible fix (since it lets you choose a non-traditional domain), specifically doesn't grant a favored weapon, so that's neatly boxed off... Grr!
The Growth domain is associated with Gozreh who's favored weapon is a trident which has 10 ft. reach, I think?
Also, this was permitted for me to use: http://karzoug.info/srd/archetypes/cleric/ShoantiShaman.htm
It sort of renders the separatist archetype moot, unless you were hoping to combine other domains than the ones listed as Shoanti totems.
The Trident is a 1h martial weapon with a 10ft range increment for throwing, not reach. It also doesn't have the Trip special quality.
For a trident with reach, you can buy a Fighter's Fork. You can brace it, throw it as a trident, throw it as a javelin, shorten it until it is a light weapon, wield it as a one-handed weapon, wield it as a two-handed weapon without reach, or lengthen it into a two-handed reach weapon. That's pretty versatile. Especially since any feats or class abilities that apply to tridents will work in any of its forms.
Still trying to make this work;
Shoanti Cleric of Gozreh
Growth Domain/Wolf Domain
20 point buy (10 is the lowest allowed stat)
STR: 16 DEX: 13 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 15 CHA: 10
lv 1 Heavy armor Prof, Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip (Wolf Domain), (Growth: Enlarge person lv 1 spell)
lv 3 Heightened spell
lv 5 Preferred spell
lv 7 Power Attack
lv 9 Extend Spell???
At level 9 you might prefer some combat feat with +6 BAB required - greater trip or lunge. If you're going to get a metamagic feat I'd suggest something more offensive.
What spell are you planning to use with preferred - aspect of the wolf, or what?
At level 9 you might prefer some combat feat with +6 BAB required - greater trip or lunge. If you're going to get a metamagic feat I'd suggest something more offensive.
What spell are you planning to use with preferred - aspect of the wolf, or what?
Aspect of the Wolf is the intended, spell yes.
And those offensive feats seems like a good inclusion.Though I might reconsider domains. As it stands, I'm looking to do more battlefield control and support. Was briefly checking out the Night domain, finding it interesting.
In general I'm looking to build a cleric that can fill in some of the utility that the Rangers have in regards to survival, perception, knowledge (nature) and perhaps even acrobatics. I'm someone that's adapted to living in the wild.
|
A Shaman might fit your concept better; you would get more nature-themed skills and spells. Shamans are also better at battlefield control than Clerics.
I'm playing a longspear-using Shaman reach build in Ironfang Invasion, which is working pretty well. I have the flame spirit, but the battle spirit might be better for what you have in mind (you would get Enlarge Person as a spirit spell). Depending on your preference, the Speaker for the Past archetype could be interesting.
Male human (Varisian) shaman 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 35)
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +3
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 14 (1d8+6)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee dagger +4 (1d4+4/19-20) or
. . longspear +4 (1d8+6/×3) or
. . morningstar +4 (1d8+4)
Ranged light crossbow +1 (1d8/19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with longspear)
Shaman Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st—cure light wounds, entangle (DC 13); burning hands[S] (DC 13)
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light
. . S spirit magic spell; Spirit Flame Wandering Spirit
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Combat Reflexes, Toughness
Traits frontier healer, resilient
Skills Craft (blacksmith) +4, Diplomacy +3, Handle Animal +3, Heal +7, Knowledge (nature) +5, Perception +3, Survival +6
Languages Common, Varisian
SQ spirit animal (fox named Pele), touch of flame
Other Gear studded leather, crossbow bolts (10), dagger, light crossbow, longspear, morningstar, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, candle (10), cold weather outfit, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), mess kit (worth 0.1 gp, 1 lb), pot, soap, spell component pouch, trail rations (5), waterskin, wooden holy symbol of Desna, 6 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Combat Reflexes (2 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +2 to Reflex saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spirit Animal (spirit animal (fox named Pele)) If spirit animal is slain, cannot use spirit magic or prepare new spells.
Touch of Flame (2/day) (Su) As a standard action, melee touch deals fire dam.
(Note: We are using Background Skills.)
I took the healing hex at level 2 to help out with party healing. The human favored class bonus lets you add cleric spells to your spell list (with a 2 lvl delay). Mind you, Shamans have most of the important healing spells on their list already.
Would having a wolf animal companion be fitting for your concept?
The Shaman is definitely fitting for my theme, but as this is my first full divine casting character, I'd like to go for the "prototype" (the Cleric), to familiarize myself with the concept, spell lists and possibilities etc. and then check out "deviations" on a later occasion.
I'm wasn't initially looking to use an animal companion. Never really cared for the feature, all though there might be advantages I'm overseeing. I opted out of using one on my ranger (utilizing the Guide archetype myself). I guess I'm against using the feature as I 1) afraid the creature will die far too easily and hinder my prowess and 2) not really keen on role playing the animal tagging along. Lumbering around with a giant wolf in an urban setting seems a little much.
The Flagbearer feat looks awesome. Though I should probably have informed you that our party will feature a bard making any morale bonus I pump out on the team mitigated by the bards bread and butter; inspire courage. The party appears to have this combination as of now;
Orc Fighter (Expecting heavy melee output)
Human Slayer (Grave Warden archetype, going for a Van Helsing theme)
Gnome Bard (Vanilla Bard, Crossbow focus)
Human Cleric (Me, Shoanti themed, longspear wielding)
As the first two should be able to dish out decent melee on a fairly consistent basis fueled by the gnome bards buffing, I figured my niche would be other forms of support, i.e. using the growth domain's enlarge person and trigger AoOs with my longspear and use my standard actions for casting battle control spells (stone wall seems thematically fitting) or battle hazard spells.
Pondering this further, getting rid of the Wolf Domain all-together.
Raksha Akeela of Lyrune Quah (Moon clan)
Female Human (Shoanti) Cleric of Gozreh/Totem 1
STR: 16 Dex: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 Wis: 14 CHA: 10
Heart of the Fey: Grants Low-light vision, +1 to ref and will saves and Knowledge (Nature) and Perception as class skills.
Domains: Growth/Night Domain
Traits:
Reactionary (+2 Initiative)
Reckless (+1 Acrobatcs as class skill)
Survivalist (+5 to survival in the wilderness)
Drawback: Overprotective or Xenophobic
lvl 1: Feat: Combat Reflexes, Human: Toughness/Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight (Night Domain), Domain Spells: Enlarge Person, Sleep
lvl 3: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
lvl 4: +1 to con/str/wis??
lvl 5: Augment Summoning
lvl 7: Heavy Armor Prof/Power Attack
lvl 9: Quicken Magic/Heavy Armor Prof
lvl 11: Superior Summoning
Oops, that would be WIS: 16 in the post above. We're running a 25 point buy where we are not allowed to dump ability scores below 10.
The idea is pretty much to run a Longspear wielding reach build, where she moves into a position where she's likely to trigger AoO (Easer with Growth domain's Enlarge Person giving her a 20 ft. threatened area) as a way to dish out melee damage and using her standard actions to cast spells. It seems like a very action economy friendly strategy which also bridges the Cleric's early level martial reliance with her late level caster capabilities rather nicely.