Vanilla Magus, no archetypes. Using a unique magic shield and a Glaive.
So we start with Bladed Brush, which allows us to count our off-hand as free for the purpose of Spell Combat. We're still wielding a two-handed weapon, though, and that means we don't have a hand free to cast spells.
You know how to balance a polearm perfectly, striking with artful, yet deadly precision.
Prerequisite(s): Weapon Focus (glaive), must be a worshiper of the associated deity.
Benefit(s): You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a glaive sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon. When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).
As a move action, you can shorten your grip on the glaive, treating it as though it lacked the reach weapon property. You can adjust your grip to grant the weapon the reach property as a move action.
Now, with this feat we can wield the two handed weapon and still wear a shield. Right now, that doesn't help us.
You’ve mastered the art of balancing a polearm’s weight against a shield’s stability.
Prerequisite(s): Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit(s): You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
But with the Clawhand Shield, this allows us to cast spells even though our hand is occupied!
Aura moderate necromancy CL 9th
Slot shield; Price 8,158 gp; Weight 8 lbs.
Description
This shield is made of bone and ivory, but has been imbued with magic to function as a +2 mithral heavy steel shield (though it is not considered to be made of metal). The shield has stylized animal claws encircling its outer rim. If the wearer is grappled, pinned, or swallowed whole, as a standard action he can cause the claws to animate and make a single melee attack dealing 1d8 points of damage + the wielder’s Strength modifier (1d6 + his Strength modifier for a Small wielder) without requiring a successful combat maneuver check to do so. This is considered a weapon attack with a one-handed weapon the wielder is proficient with, not a shield bash.
Additionally, the claws can animate to perform the somatic components of a spell as long as the arm holding the shield would be able to provide these components if it weren’t carrying a shield. As a result, the shield has no arcane spell failure chance.
Construction Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, summon nature's ally I; Price 4,158 gp
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
So... This is kind of hard.
Quote: you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon This doesn't say you ARE wielding it one handed, just that you TREAT it that way for class features and feats that require it. I'd rule no.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Now, the Shield Brace feat would work, yes, all by it's self. But I would (personally) still rule that your shield, as well as the hand, is occupied, and that you wouldn't be able to cast with it while wielding your polearm.
I'm not wielding it in a single hand, I agree.
Bladed Brush allows me to count my off-hand as free for the purpose of Spell Combat, while Clawhand Shield allows me to cast spells even though the hand is occupied.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
The Clawhand Shield allows you to cast spells even though your hand is occupied *with the shield.* I use one on my main who happens to be a sword-and-board oracle. But you're now bracing a polearm against that shield, which is strapped to your arm. You've eliminated the issue of casting with a pole arm, and you've eliminated the issue of casting with a shield, but you've hit on an entirely new problem: The SHIELD you're using to cast your spell is holding your polearm.
Doesn't spell combat call out you need a free hand?
Just because you can cast while using a shield, it doesn't let you get through the requirement of needing a free hand. Bladed Brush may let you use a Glaive and spell combat, but nothing about Shield Brace or Clawhand Shield lets you have a free hand.
SorrySleeping wrote: Doesn't spell combat call out you need a free hand? Yep. Even if you're using still spell. Even if you cast psychic magic like a Phantom Blade that doesn't require somatic components...
Hmm, can I do it with Bladed Brush + Alchemist Vestigial Arm?
Vestigial Arm wrote: Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). Based on the fact that it can throw a bomb for you, if empty, I'd probably rule yes, even though it doesn't expressly say it counts as a free hand for anything.
Does it work and can you do it, is it effective are different questions
Use Unhindering Shield that should get you there.
Definitely want to see the upshot of this thread.
All questions involving Bladed Brush should probably be hashed out with one's own GM. Since the Rules Forum threads on it in the past have gone in the direction of
- Here be monstres
- It probably doesn't work the way you want it to per RAW.
SorrySleeping wrote: Doesn't spell combat call out you need a free hand?
Just because you can cast while using a shield, it doesn't let you get through the requirement of needing a free hand. Bladed Brush may let you use a Glaive and spell combat, but nothing about Shield Brace or Clawhand Shield lets you have a free hand.
I've been going off of this assumption, but maybe it's not true. The Skirnir Magus's 8th-level ability, Shielded Spell Combat, only calls out that you can use your shield hand to cast spells. It doesn't mention anything about lifting the restriction of "must have one hand free." So perhaps this 'free' notion is used a little bit specifically in the Spell Combat description.
Based on this 'inconsistency,' I can conclude that 'free' in the Spell Combat description means 'free to cast a spell' rather than the normal (unwritten rules) definition of 'is not used to attack with a weapon, or wield a shield, this turn.'
Thus, the OP does circumvent every restriction, albeit in a very roundabout way.
I'd agree that bladed brush is problematic. Best to talk to your home game GM and clear your weapon and feat combination with them.
The OP, even with that definition, does not. The reason is that your feat, Bladed Brush, allows your HAND to cast the spell, but only if the only encumbrance is the glaive. The SHIELD allows the SHIELD to cast your spell for you. The other feat, Shield Brace, allows your shield to be used in conjunction with your glaive. But you've fouled your shield by using it that way. You have nothing that allows this shield to keep functioning in this regard while fouled in this manner.
If you try to use it this way, your GM will likely nix it on principal. Talk to your GM.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Zarius wrote: So... This is kind of hard.
Quote: you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon This doesn't say you ARE wielding it one handed, just that you TREAT it that way for class features and feats that require it. I'd rule no.
Spell Combat is a class feature that requires your weapon to be wielded one-handed.
This is specifically what Bladed Brush does.
That being said, there is a way for the magus to use any polearm + shield + spell combat.
Spear Dancing Spiral + Quarterstaff Mastery + Unhindering Shield.
Zarius, what do you mean by 'fouled' my shield? Bladed Brush does not allow my hand to cast the spell for me. It only applies for Spell Combat reasons.
The claw hand isn't 'holding' the glaive. Both of my hands are holding the glaive, and the claw hand is casting the spell.
edit: To clarify, my 'main hand' is my shield hand, and it's holding a glaive and a shield. My 'off hand' is the other one, it's holding the glaive but it counts as free for the purpose of class abilities.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Covert Operator wrote: Zarius, what do you mean by 'fouled' my shield? Bladed Brush does not allow my hand to cast the spell for me. It only applies for Spell Combat reasons.
The claw hand isn't 'holding' the glaive. Both of my hands are holding the glaive, and the claw hand is casting the spell.
Won't work.
while Brace may allow you to use a light or heavy shield while using a polearm, but it in no way changes the fact that a light or heavy shield occupies the user's hand.
The fact that the shield can be used for somatic components is not the issue. If the hand is occupied, you cannot use spell combat.
Shield focus
Shield Brace
Shielded Mage
That last feat let's you cast with your shield hand, it needs shield focus as a prerequisite, so does shield brace. You are online by level 5.
VoodishMonk, that's really awesome, but it unfortunately doesn't help us because both hands are occupied by the Glaive for spellcasting purposes.
Abrendoth, the shield hand is in fact occupied for spell combat purposes. The other hand isn't, though. It's a little weird, but I'm casting with my shield hand while my 'free hand' for Spell Combat is my non-shield hand.
What, exactly, do you think that Shield Brace does? "You’ve mastered the art of balancing a polearm’s weight against a shield’s stability." That pretty much SAYS it. You're using your SHIELD to brace your POLEARM. Your shield gives you your AC bonus, and doesn't hinder your polearm use, but would be fouled for spell casting.
More over, Volkard's explanation is true. You ARE free of the encumbrance for your polearm. But you ARE holding your shield, and the class ability clearly calls out free hand, not ability to cast spells with somatic gestures.
If you really want to use a polearm and a shield as a spellcaster, use Volkard's suggestion. Looking at the feats, they work.
And no. Your shield hand is ALWAYS your "off hand" when you are using a weapon with a shield. This is defined by Paizo because your shield is considered, at all times, a secondary weapon.
Oh, your shield hand is always your off hand? That's an unwritten rule I didn't know. You are totally correct then.
Oh, you're just holding the polearm because it's a really big phallic item, but your weapon is ACTUALLY your shield? That's what you're implying by designating your "main hand" as the one that's "holding" both your shield and your weapon. That your glaive is basically just a giant wang you're waving around because can.
VoodistMonk wrote: Shield focus
Shield Brace
Shielded Mage
That last feat let's you cast with your shield hand, it needs shield focus as a prerequisite, so does shield brace. You are online by level 5.
Still does not work.
Somatic components and arcane spell failure are not the issues preventing Spell Combat.
The Shielded Mage feat does not change the fact that the hand is occupied.
What you need is wording like this:
Unhindering Shield wrote: your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield
Zarius wrote: And no. Your shield hand is ALWAYS your "off hand" when you are using a weapon with a shield. This is defined by Paizo because your shield is considered, at all times, a secondary weapon. Could you please cite the source for this.
Volkard Abendroth wrote: Zarius wrote: And no. Your shield hand is ALWAYS your "off hand" when you are using a weapon with a shield. This is defined by Paizo because your shield is considered, at all times, a secondary weapon. Could you please cite the source for this.
** spoiler omitted ** .
It's not check the FAQ
Shield Bash: If I make a shield bash, does it always have to be an off-hand attack?
The text for a shield bash assumes you're making a bash as an off-hand attack, but you don't have to. You can, for example, just make a shield bash attack (at your normal, main-hand attack bonus) or shield bash with your main hand and attack with a sword in your off-hand.
Update: Page 152—In the Shield Bash Attacks section, in the first sentence, delete “using it as an off-hand weapon.”
Oh hey, that's pretty cool. So here's the end result:
1. wield a Glaive in both hands. Bladed Brush allows you to treat your off-hand as Free for the purpose of class features (Spell Combat in this case).
2. Wear a shield on your main arm. You are still wielding the Glaive in both hands.
3. Your Clawhand shield (on your main arm) can cast the somatic components.
So here's your actions:
1. Spell Combat. Your off-hand (the arm without the shield) is treated as free.
2. Make some attacks with your glaive.
3. Cast a spell, with your shield making the somatic components.
Sure. You can interpret the rules in such a fashion that they make no sense. Because if you're using a *weapon*, that weapon is your main weapon. Your shield is secondary. That's how it works. If you're using your shield as a weapon, and not your weapon, then your weapon is a giant wang being waved around, and your shield isn't shield. It's a weapon.
If, however, your shield is a defensive item, it's using the "free hand" that your trying to use for spell casting. Why? Because the hand you're trying to use for spell casting that you're CALLING "free"? The one without the shield on it? THAT'S THE ONE THAT MAKES YOUR GLAIVE DO ITS GLAIVE STABBIES. IT'S NOT FREE.
But that's just an interpretation from a rules lawyer on the rules thread. Not from a self-interested player on the "how can I make stupid choices thread. Feel free to not bother consulting your GM before you waste feats. If you're REALLY lucky, he might let you retrain them.
Or you can actually take the chain of feats that had been suggested that actually works for what you want...
Just to clarify a little, YOU CAN'T USE YOUR SHIELD HAND TO STABBY WITH YOUR STABBY, BECAUSE IT'S HOLDING YOUR SHIELD. YOUR STABBY IS CONTROLLED B THE NOT-SHIELD HAND.
Sorry if this isn't clear.
Firstly, at this point we are directly going off the path of rules. You have a lot of care for forcing a shield hand to be an off hand, but there isn't really any rules that say so. So you want it that way because it makes more sense.
I want to clarify that not all shields are even held in the hand. They are entirely controlled by the elbow and shoulder, the hand is only behind the shield for protection. But with this staff in place, the hand is protected by it.
I have some medieval weapons experience, and the way I would fight, using the weapons in the OP, would be to notch my shield so that my hand has free movement to hold the weapon. I would control the position of the weapon mostly with my shield hand, and the movement forward and back with the non-shield hand. In this case there isn't really a 'main hand' like there would be in, e.g. Rapier & Dagger.
Figure of Eight Shieldl
ok, so, i disagree with zarius's logic, but not his conclusion. let's break it down.
first, bladed brush. this allows you to treat the weapon as a onehanded melee weapon and as if you are not making attacks for feats and class abilities that require such a weapon. this means that you can use it for things that require a one handed weapon, and that you can treat it as not using your offhand for things that specifically require you NOT to use your off hand.
this does not, however, treat your hand as free to be used for other things, as noted by the OP
shield brace says you can use a shield alongside a two handed weapon. it does not, however, treat your two hands as free for any other purpose. this means that your two hands are used, but you still get to make use of your shield.
now we get to the part where this fails.
the Clawhand Shield states that you may animate the sheild to perform somantic components of a spell provided you are holding the sheild (which you are) and as long as the arm holding that sheild could provide that component if it wasnt holding a shield. but it cant. you are using both hands to hold a weapon and thus that hand holding the shield cannot provide the component if the shield was removed.
so, to sum it up, a two handed weapon prevents you from using Clawhand Shield's special ability.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Covert Operator wrote: Oh hey, that's pretty cool. So here's the end result:
1. wield a Glaive in both hands. Bladed Brush allows you to treat your off-hand as Free for the purpose of class features (Spell Combat in this case).
2. Wear a shield on your main arm. You are still wielding the Glaive in both hands.
3. Your Clawhand shield (on your main arm) can cast the somatic components.
So here's your actions:
1. Spell Combat. Your off-hand (the arm without the shield) is treated as free.
2. Make some attacks with your glaive.
3. Cast a spell, with your shield making the somatic components.
Problem #1 you have no free hand.
You can cast spells, and attack just fine. The magus calls out you needing a free hand, which you no longer do.
No matter where you put the shield, the other hand has the glaive. Either Hand A has the shield that is bracing a glaive and Hand B has a glaive in it or vise versa. It does not solve the problem of needing either Hand A or Hand B completely free.
Sounds like we're all basically saying "It doesn't work" for different reasons and in different ways. Pick your denial letter.
Spells are a class ability.
Irrelevant. We have covered that Glaive feat works. We've also covered that, based on the wording of the class ability that lets him attack AND cast, the Clawhand Shield does NOT work for it, because it "allows the shield to perform the somatic components", not "counts as a free hand for the purpose of spell casting."
In fact, your addition, Abraham, seems to be entirely incongruous to the entire conversation. What IS your point?
I think Abraham misunderstood.
Glaive works on its own. But it doesn't work with the shield combo.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
I don't agree glaive works with spell combat. Bladed brush doesn't say you have a free hand; it says it's treated as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand.
The whole combo don't work for a very basic fact: even if the glaive is used as a one handed weapon, it isn't a one handed weapon. And spell combat require a light or one handed weapon, not a two handed weapon that can be used with one hand thanks to a feat.
PRD wrote: Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.
^Good point . . . except that Bladed Brush actually does say "you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon". It seems to me that the question then becomes whether you thereafter hose yourself by adding Shield Brace and a shield (even if meant for casting spells with Somatic components).
Diego Rossi wrote: The whole combo don't work for a very basic fact: even if the glaive is used as a one handed weapon, it isn't a one handed weapon. And spell combat require a light or one handed weapon, not a two handed weapon that can be used with one hand thanks to a feat.
PRD wrote: Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.
Bladed Brush wrote: When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon ... for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon Spell Combat is a class ability that requires a light or one-handed weapon. Bladed Brush specifically addresses this issue. For purposes of resolving class abilities, the glaive is a one-handed weapon.
You've just explained why this doesn't work, actually. Blade brush says it may be treated as a one handed weapon for abilities that require one. That is, abilities that specifically state that you must be using a one handed weapon. It does not, however, make it a one handed weapon. Importantly, it does not free up one hand. You may treat your off hand as not making an attack for those abilities that expressly require this. It does not, however, leave your hand free, nor treat hour hand as free. This line exists for abilities like the mentioned Precise Strike, which calls out not using your other hand to attack
"To use this deed (precise strike), a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. "
Bladed brush doesn't change the handedness of the weapon, and it only allows you to treat it as one handed for the purpose of feats and abilities that explicitly require you to have one, and also for effects that require you not to be attacking with your other hand. This is NOT the same as having a free hand. This Does Not free your off hand for spell casting, which does not specify that you must not attack with your off hand. It specifies that you must have a hand free.
Magus, quoting the full context of the line you bolded, says "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand"
To repeat, 'you must have one hand free'.
The short answer is that blade brush does not treat you as having a free hand. Both hands are full of weapon. This means you can not cast spells. Not as a wizard, and not as a magus. Its why you cannot use this with the sheild, as I said earlier.
daft rabbit wrote: You've just explained why this doesn't work, actually. Blade brush says it may be treated as a one handed weapon for abilities that require one. That is, abilities that specifically state that you must be using a one handed weapon. It does not, however, make it a one handed weapon. Importantly, it does not free up one hand. You may treat your off hand as not making an attack for those abilities that expressly require this. It does not, however, leave your hand free, nor treat hour hand as free. This line exists for abilities like the mentioned Precise Strike, which calls out not using your other hand to attack When something says it treats X as one-handed for purposes of resolving Y, IT WORKS when resolving Y.
All you are doing is running endless circles, trying to reparse individual words into a much more lengthy and convoluted explanation of why a very simple sentence means something other than what it very clearly says.
For Spell Combat and a shield you will want Shield Focus and Unhindered Shield. To get this to work with Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace and a glaive, you will need 4 levels of Phalanx Fighter.
1. Weapon Focus Glaive
1. Bladed Brush
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Shield Focus
4. Unhindering Shield
Take Slashing Grace your first level of Magus, so level 5. It works, people who say otherwise are misleading you.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
