Un-Reach Spells?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Is there a feat (like the opposite of the Reach Metamagic) or anything (other than Maybe Magus stuffs) that would allow a caster to drop the range of a spell to touch so that they could touch attack with spells like magic missile and such?


Not to my knowledge.


Arden Oakwald wrote:
Is there a feat (like the opposite of the Reach Metamagic) or anything (other than Maybe Magus stuffs) that would allow a caster to drop the range of a spell to touch so that they could touch attack with spells like magic missile and such?

No. Generally speaking it would be seen as a downgrade to the spell so almost nobody would take the feat if it did exist.

Dark Archive

It would allow casters with better melee aim to aim better.
Or clawed sorcerers to deliver a wider variety of spells with their natural attacks and such.

If I made a homebrew feat for it, would it be better as a +1 level metamagic, or a +0 level (like merciful spell)?


I am pretty sure there is something, I even remember a clause like 'if the spell normally does multiple rays, you only get one of them in melee'. Can't find anything among existing feats (including metamagic), it's more likely a class (or archetype) ability.

Searching...

EDIT: Ah, there is at least one way, a magus arcana:

Ultimate Magic wrote:
Close Range (Ex): The magus can deliver ray spells that feature a ranged touch attack as melee touch spells. He can use a ranged touch attack spell that targets more than one creature (such as scorching ray), but he makes only one melee touch attack to deliver one of these ranged touch effects; additional ranged touch attacks from that spell are wasted and have no effect. These spells can be used with the spellstrike class feature.

Dark Archive

Arden Oakwald wrote:
If I made a homebrew feat for it, would it be better as a +1 level metamagic, or a +0 level (like merciful spell)?

+0, IMO. It's not an upgrade, just a situational option.


i would say a -1 per range increment but cant go under the spells original spell level so if you had a 400 range spell and made it a 30 range spell you would be at a -2 and thus be able to apply a +2 metamagic feat to it to keep it at the same level of spell

Shadow Lodge

It should just be Reach Spell(+1) in reverse. So Short Spell is a -1 and can't be used on 1st level spells.


Do you really want close range fireballs cast from first level slots? Or free metamagic for Lady-J's suggestion?


Using the Magus Arcana as a competitive point, i would make it a +1 Metamagic feat. Keeps the Magus Arcana useful, and has uses beyond it.(magus arcana only works on range close, meta feat would change any range to touch)

edit: even changing elemental damage from base type to another is a +1 metamagic, so i feel comfortable with this suggestion. If your build/playstyle would make use of it, it's worth the +1.

Shadow Lodge

Derklord wrote:
Do you really want close range fireballs cast from first level slots? Or free metamagic for Lady-J's suggestion?

Second level.


I'd be okay with a metamagic option to shorten the range of things (it's narrow, but so are a lot of other metamagics) but it would have to be +0. Free metamagic *on any spell* is a can of worms I don't really want to open.

But the "actually an answer to a rules question" is to get the Magus Arcana linked above. Only works on rays though. I would prefer to expand the category of spells "Close Range Arcana" works on than create metamagic, since the Magus is supposed to be the arcane caster who specializes at getting in people's faces. It seems better to restrict the mechanic to the class where it's on theme.


being able to trade range for power seems like a fair trade to me, it also means that they have already applied empower and must select another metamagic to use to get it up past the initial level so it can benefit from things like magical linage and wang spell hunter which you would be using to get free empower on a fireball anyway


If someone WANTS to change their spell...empower...enlarge..etc...it costs them a +x in metamagic. If you WANT to use your spell as a touch it NEEDS to be a +x (likely just 1, maybe 1 per range change).

Otherwise once you're high level you would ALWAYS use shorten because 25ft +5/lvl would be plenty and you would be empowering everything for free.


*Thelith wrote:

If someone WANTS to change their spell...empower...enlarge..etc...it costs them a +x in metamagic. If you WANT to use your spell as a touch it NEEDS to be a +x (likely just 1, maybe 1 per range change).

Otherwise once you're high level you would ALWAYS use shorten because 25ft +5/lvl would be plenty and you would be empowering everything for free.

you can already empower your favorite spell for free....


Lady-J wrote:
you can already empower your favorite spell for free....

And that's bad enough, so why do you want more of that (stacking)? Does quickened Fireball as a 3rd level slot sounds good to you?

Also, Wayang Spellhunter has a region requirement - Minata is south-eastern Tian Xia, you'd better have one hell of an explanation what your character is in (presumably) the inner sea region.
If a GM allows a character to stack a softcover trait with it's main line reprint, it's their own fault.

Dragonborn3 wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Do you really want close range fireballs cast from first level slots? Or free metamagic for Lady-J's suggestion?
Second level.

When it's "just Reach Spell in reverse", it's -1 per range step; long to short is two steps, i.e. a -2.


Reach metamagic does change range to +1 per category (increase) change. I suppose you could GM rule it to +1 for a decrease. lol...

Weaponwand does this as a side effect but it becomes a hit with the weapon rather than a ranged touch attack. It is better? depends. The cool part is shooting black rays (from a Wand of Enervation) out of your sword... scary.


What would worry me is this: somewhere in all our books are one or more spells that deal damage. Duh, I know, right? There's gonna be a range spell out there with tolerable damage. Now, let's reduce that sucker down to touch. Why? If we're gonna cut down ranges, that's the step after close. Why is this important? Because now...you can crit.

Some quick examples:

Finger of death.. I hate the modern version. But if I can cut it down to touch, I can potentially double its damage if I can find a way to crit with it.
Disintegrate. While this would be cool as all get out...who wants to soak that?
Fireball. For a cantrip, it's now range touch. Suicidal you say? Maybe. Now give it to a creature with fire immunity, like say, some devils, or a red dragon. Thematic? Sure is.

These are I'm sure poor spells to pick from. Imagine more fun like cold ice strike instead. Scorching ray maybe.

Before anyone talks about how hard it is to crit...crit-fishing builds exist, some with Butterfly's Sting...yes, the squishy mages will have to get close to do this stuff, but oh, the payoff would be painful.


I'd been thinking a +0 is really the way to go, or just making it a feat or letting your players always do it. After all, you can already decrease your range for free by just not casting that far out, so a positive modifier is stupid, and negative metamagics are just a baaaaaad idea. But then I realised:
The thing that actually makes this a decent option is not provoking for making a ranged attack.
Because frankly, the desire to use melee touch spells as a focus is pretty niche, so that's not something that should be penalised, but avoiding AoOs with your rays is something that is actually worth something.

So, as I see it, you really have two options as far as feats go:
Make it a +0 metamagic so there's a bit more of a commitment to making it close range (Either it's stuck close or they spend a full-round doing it, at which point they could have just moved away or 5-footed)
Make it just an automatic option, but it's a feat, and it requires CL3 or 4 (To bring it in line with the magus arcana or point blank master) and Combat Casting (Since point blank master requires at least a feat, and anyone doing serious melee casting should really consider combat casting anyway)

EDIT: Oh, and critting. Yes. You might like to limit it to rays that need to touch anyway. Like Lathiira says, you can get some nutso things happening if you let different spells start being able to crit.


Lathiira wrote:
Disintegrate. While this would be cool as all get out...who wants to soak that?

As a matter of fact, disintegrate can already crit.


you might want to start a thread in the Homebrew forum to work on a new metamagic or rework some spells...

The Exchange

Melee touch attack spells aren't inherently less powerful than ranged touch attack spells, they're just different: a melee touch attack spell is only discharged when it actually hits something, a ranged touch attack spell gets its roll to hit or miss and it's done. Holding the charge on a melee touch attack spell also has some tactical advantages (such as being able to AoO with them) that ranged touch attack spells lack.

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