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Which is the better over all level 1 feat for a bard and which would fit best in this build?
Brazen Deciever:Favored Class +1 Skill Point
Traits:Criminal
Varisian Tattoo
Stats
Str:12
Dex:12
Con:12
Int:14
Wis:9
Cha:14+2
Skill Focus(Disguise)
1:???
Bonus Feat:Spellsong
3:Eldritch Heritage(Rakshasa)
5:Weapon Focus(Bladed Scarf)
7:Intimidating Performance
9:Improved Dirge of Doom
11:Improved Eldritch Heritage(Rakshasa)
13:Dazzling Display
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Arcane Strike is probably better at 1st, since failing Will saves is usually not quite as horrible at that level.
However, taking Arcane Strike implies you're going to fight, so I would suggest raising either Dex or Str to at least 14 (e.g. Str 10 Dex 14 Wis 08). If being decent at fighting is not important to this character, then Lingering Performance is a much better choice, since it basically triples the number of rounds per day in which you can bolster the party with Inspire Courage, and that will cause much more damage to the enemy than your Arcane Strike.
Given the Skill Focus, I'm assuming you're a Half-Elf?
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Yes the character is a half elf, And i don't care much about being amazing at fighting, only enough so that if the frontline is broken i can take care of myself. This character is more spellcaster based focusing on debuffing and shadow spells.
And I really don't care much for lingering performance. Its between arcane strike and steadfast personality specifically because I realized that devastating will saves can come as early as level 2!
I want any characters I make to be ready for that.
Well, devastating will saves come at level 1 tbh... In the form of Color Spray. If you fail a will save against that at level 1-2 you're done for, at least mid combat.
We've had several Characters die from it, due to failing a will save, falling unconscious and then getting coup de graced.
It's nasty.
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Yes the character is a half elf, And i don't care much about being amazing at fighting, only enough so that if the frontline is broken i can take care of myself. This character is more spellcaster based focusing on debuffing and shadow spells.
And I really don't care much for lingering performance. Its between arcane strike and steadfast personality specifically because I realized that devastating will saves can come as early as level 2!
I want any characters I make to be ready for that.
with 12/12/12 your character isn't just not amazing at fighting, your are horrible and will die quickly to anything that reaches you while being basically ineffective against it. So your current build cannot take care of itself if the front line is broken.
now for your feats, since combat isn't your thing there's no reason to take arcane strike.
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Yes the character is a half elf, And i don't care much about being amazing at fighting, only enough so that if the frontline is broken i can take care of myself. This character is more spellcaster based focusing on debuffing and shadow spells.
And I really don't care much for lingering performance. Its between arcane strike and steadfast personality specifically because I realized that devastating will saves can come as early as level 2!
I want any characters I make to be ready for that.
with 12/12/12 your character isn't just not amazing at fighting, your are horrible and will die quickly to anything that reaches you while being basically ineffective against it. So your current build cannot take care of itself if the front line is broken.
now for your feats, since combat isn't your thing there's no reason to take arcane strike.
I'm not so sure about that, short of a charging barbarian that manages to land a crit, I can at least take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me. Maybe I'm placing too much value in shadow and misdirection type spells.
I'm not so sure about that, short of a charging barbarian that manages to land a crit, I can at least take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me. Maybe I'm placing too much value in shadow and misdirection type spells.Yes the character is a half elf, And i don't care much about being amazing at fighting, only enough so that if the frontline is broken i can take care of myself. This character is more spellcaster based focusing on debuffing and shadow spells.
And I really don't care much for lingering performance. Its between arcane strike and steadfast personality specifically because I realized that devastating will saves can come as early as level 2!
I want any characters I make to be ready for that.
with 12/12/12 your character isn't just not amazing at fighting, your are horrible and will die quickly to anything that reaches you while being basically ineffective against it. So your current build cannot take care of itself if the front line is broken.
now for your feats, since combat isn't your thing there's no reason to take arcane strike.
Charging barbarian? A simple goblin with a longspear that crits is doing 3d6 + str bonus x4.5. A classless human does 3d8 + str bonus x4.5. A 1st level warrior with a Scythe does 8d4 + str bonus x6...
with those stats you're basically as effective as a wizard is in melee and as tough as one too. A wizard with 14 con has as much HP as you do and with a 12 or 14 dex as much if not more AC and it'll be able to have any defensive spells up that you'd have. Also with only a 12 str your accuracy is pretty garbage so you wont hit and if you do it wont hurt. Thus you should view yourself as a normal wizard, now if you think a wizard can "take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me" then yes you meet that, but if you don't view that for a wizard then you're not either since you're really not any better at it than a wizard.
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with those stats you're basically as effective as a wizard is in melee and as tough as one too. A wizard with 14 con has as much HP as you do and with a 12 or 14 dex as much if not more AC and it'll be able to have any defensive spells up that you'd have. Also with only a 12 str your accuracy is pretty garbage so you wont hit and if you do it wont hurt. Thus you should view yourself as a normal wizard, now if you think a wizard can "take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me" then yes you meet that, but if you don't view that for a wizard then you're not either since you're really not any better at it then a wizard.
And You're basing this off the fact that I will likely be using Dirge of Doom more often then inspire courage yes?
Charging barbarian? A simple goblin with a longspear that crits is doing 3d6 + str bonus x4.5. A classless human does 3d8 + str bonus x4.5. A 1st level warrior with a Scythe does 8d4 + str bonus x6...
But that's kind of irrelevant considering that could kill anyone that's level 5 or lower regardless of class.
with those stats you're basically as effective as a wizard is in melee and as tough as one too. A wizard with 14 con has as much HP as you do and with a 12 or 14 dex as much if not more AC and it'll be able to have any defensive spells up that you'd have. Also with only a 12 str your accuracy is pretty garbage so you wont hit and if you do it wont hurt. Thus you should view yourself as a normal wizard, now if you think a wizard can "take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me" then yes you meet that, but if you don't view that for a wizard then you're not either since you're really not any better at it then a wizard.And You're basing this off the fact that I will likely be using Dirge of Doom more often then inspire courage yes?
yeah sure. that doesn't change that your as threatening and tanky as a wizard. like you might as well drop your str and free up points else where since that str is just for carrying and skills.
A lv8 enchanter wizard has Aura of Despair which is dirge of doom + as it also affects damage and can stack with shaken.
so if you feel a wizard is fine then you fill your goal, if you don't think a wizard meets your goal then you're not either.
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with those stats you're basically as effective as a wizard is in melee and as tough as one too. A wizard with 14 con has as much HP as you do and with a 12 or 14 dex as much if not more AC and it'll be able to have any defensive spells up that you'd have. Also with only a 12 str your accuracy is pretty garbage so you wont hit and if you do it wont hurt. Thus you should view yourself as a normal wizard, now if you think a wizard can "take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me" then yes you meet that, but if you don't view that for a wizard then you're not either since you're really not any better at it then a wizard.And You're basing this off the fact that I will likely be using Dirge of Doom more often then inspire courage yes?yeah sure. that doesn't change that your as threatening and tanky as a wizard. like you might as well drop your str and free up points else where since that str is just for carrying and skills.
A lv8 enchanter wizard has Aura of Despair which is dirge of doom + as it also affects damage and can stack with shaken.
so if you feel a wizard is fine then you fill your goal, if you don't think a wizard meets your goal then you're not either.
Ya know considering how much people love to lord over how broken the wizard is, bringing up the squishiness of one to prove a point is kind of surreal....know what i was gonna wait until tomorrow but screw it i need to make another post hold on.
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I'm not so sure about that, short of a charging barbarian that manages to land a crit, I can at least take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me. Maybe I'm placing too much value in shadow and misdirection type spells.with 12/12/12 your character isn't just not amazing at fighting, your are horrible and will die quickly to anything that reaches you while being basically ineffective against it. So your current build cannot take care of itself if the front line is broken.
now for your feats, since combat isn't your thing there's no reason to take arcane strike.
I agree with Chess Pwn, your character will have a lot of trouble hitting anything with 12/12/12.
Given the two choices, I would go for Steadfast Personality.
Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
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With those stats, pick up steadfast personality. You'll never frontline with those stats: Your AC will be too low with that Dex, your damage will suffer from the low Strength, and your defenses won't be good enough to warrant your average hit points.
Your bard is currently stated as a spellcaster/support. Pick up a ranged weapon for when you can't do anything, and that's about it.
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I'm not so sure about that, short of a charging barbarian that manages to land a crit, I can at least take care of myself long enough for someone to come help me. Maybe I'm placing too much value in shadow and misdirection type spells.with 12/12/12 your character isn't just not amazing at fighting, your are horrible and will die quickly to anything that reaches you while being basically ineffective against it. So your current build cannot take care of itself if the front line is broken.
now for your feats, since combat isn't your thing there's no reason to take arcane strike.
I agree with Chess Pwn, your character will have a lot of trouble hitting anything with 12/12/12.
Given the two choices, I would go for Steadfast Personality.
Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
Wait...in that case why not just get Diva Style?
But that's kind of irrelevant considering that could kill anyone that's level 5 or lower regardless of class.
It's TOTALLY relevant because of your SUPER low AC. Assuming a chain shirt, you have a AC 15. That's a 25% change to back up a crit without any bonus on the dice. It's meant to show ANY crit is bad, not just ones from barbarians but even npc class 1st level peasants. And what could you do in return? 1d6+1? Maybe 2d6+2 if you crit?
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But that's kind of irrelevant considering that could kill anyone that's level 5 or lower regardless of class.It's TOTALLY relevant because of your SUPER low AC. Assuming a chain shirt, you have a AC 15. That's a 25% change to back up a crit without any bonus on the dice. It's meant to show ANY crit is bad, not just ones from barbarians but even npc class 1st level peasants. And what could you do in return? 1d6+1? Maybe 2d6+2 if you crit?
You mean Damage wise or just rendering him ineffective cause i could think of a few ways to just take someone out of a fight.
anyway irrelevent, any further replies should be directed here
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ut30?Who-is-best-for-the-job-Part-2#1
Wait...in that case why not just get Diva Style?Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
I wasn't aware of that style.
Looking at Diva Style, it would require me to buy a new book and I'm not sure if it would work with Ranged Feint. Probably doesn't matter though, since Diva Advance would give basically the same thing if I were willing to wait until 11th level for it.
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Wait...in that case why not just get Diva Style?Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
I wasn't aware of that style.
Looking at Diva Style, it would require me to buy a new book and I'm not sure if it would work with Ranged Feint. Probably doesn't matter though, since Diva Advance would give basically the same thing if I were willing to wait until 11th level for it.
Honestly the diva line would be so much more appealing if i didn't have to get the single worst feat in the game to get it.
Honestly the diva line would be so much more appealing if i didn't have to get the single worst feat in the game to get it.Wait...in that case why not just get Diva Style?Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
I wasn't aware of that style.
Looking at Diva Style, it would require me to buy a new book and I'm not sure if it would work with Ranged Feint. Probably doesn't matter though, since Diva Advance would give basically the same thing if I were willing to wait until 11th level for it.
Take dirty fighting instead of Combat Expertise. It can be used for "prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites". Since Diva Advance requires Improved Feint, it works for that. Dirty Fighting is an actual useful feat.
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Take dirty fighting instead of Combat Expertise. It can be used for "prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites". Since Diva Advance requires Improved Feint, it works for that. Dirty Fighting is an actual useful feat.Honestly the diva line would be so much more appealing if i didn't have to get the single worst feat in the game to get it.Wait...in that case why not just get Diva Style?Looking at the archetype, I would seriously consider building up the ability to feint, including going for Ranged Feint feat when you can get it. Since I would also want Improved Feint to pair with that, it would require changing around the attributes a bit.
I wasn't aware of that style.
Looking at Diva Style, it would require me to buy a new book and I'm not sure if it would work with Ranged Feint. Probably doesn't matter though, since Diva Advance would give basically the same thing if I were willing to wait until 11th level for it.
Last i checked feint wasn't a combat maneuver.
Last i checked feint wasn't a combat maneuver.
AH... You're right. It shows you how often I use feint. :P