Starting RotRL soon, and I want to do what I can to make combat memorable, interesting, and exciting. One idea I'm considering is awarding +1 bonus damage whenever the players give a cinematic description of their combat action (or a +1 DC to spells for cinematic spellcasting descriptions.)
Is this a good idea? Bad idea? Do you have a better idea, however tangential, to make combat more engaging?
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Instead of announcing it, just take off additional hp (or bump a player's DC) quietly if players do that, and move on from there. If you start bogging things down in description, combats *will* take forever.
...we had that VERY issue in our own home-run of RotRL, half the party was used to playing FATE and Scion and was trying to push *every descriptor/tag* they could imagine into every action...
...yeah, it wasn't pretty.
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What do you think of this: when players take the effort to be descriptive, have NPCs take notice. Maybe people in the next town have heard of the swordsman with the cleaving overhand chop, the wizard who weaves his spell my plucking magic out of the wind, etc. Perhaps enemy tactics change a little based on what they've heard about the PC doing. It doesn't have to be major, but little, obvious things that demonstrate that their actions are making changes in the world would probably go a long way. I think giving the character attention (that may even develop into more RP) for their efforts is likely to be more reinforcing than a piddling amount of damage.
Describing what your character is doing is basically what pathfinder is.... How is that metagaming?
I don't see any problems with giving bonuses to people who perform their characters extremely well.
It is metagaming because the mechanics are dependant on the players' abilities not the characters'. Two characters have the exact same modifiers, but the one played by an extrovert is somehow better.
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I would advise against this. By extending every move, you're increasing the amount of time spent on combat not resolving the combat. It will move a bit slower because most players are adding additional description. If all of your players are good with it, it would be fine, but if any player doesn't like it, they're now waiting twice as long. Additionally, not every player is comfortable with flowery descriptions. Once again, if you float it to your group and they're all for it, go for it. But for a generic group I would recommend against it.
As for suggestions, I would suggest reading this. In summary, you want to keep combat moving fast and increase the feeling of urgency. Make it so that every action feels like the last if people don't do something RIGHT NOW. People will be more invested and feel more excited.
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I'm fine with allowing extra options for player description to encourage player creativity, and I might even offer a circumstance bonus (or penalty) based on the player's method of attack, but that's about it. Not every player is gifted at improvisational narrative, and I wouldn't want such a player to feel less capable. There's something to be said for THUNDER_Jeffro's concern about combat moving quickly as well.
Personally I don't describe everything. There are alot of attacks in any given round of combat. Even just a description of each players actions takes a while. I save in depth descriptions for dramatic moments(good or bad) so they keep their impact and don't drag the game on
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I don't like it, if you want to do it have the benefits not be tied to something they are doing. Like the +1 DC is a freaking feat you're giving for free. And once you do any "smart" player will now do just the minimum for getting that +1 DC. Like I'd write a short line, ask the GM if that was enough, and then just use that line every time.
It just turns "I cast fireball" to "I cast fireball and I add this extra bit for the +1 DC thanks you!"
If you want descriptive text tie the reward to something non mechanical or not tied to a primary focus for the character.
Reward them for a BRIEF creative description AND rolling ALL of their attack and damage dice at the SAME TIME. Or saying "I need a DC 14 Reflex save please" as opposed to "Make a saving throw."
"What kind?"
"Reflex."
"What DC?"
"14."
Reward them for a BRIEF creative description AND rolling ALL of their attack and damage dice at the SAME TIME. Or saying "I need a DC 14 Reflex save please" as opposed to "Make a saving throw."
"What kind?"
"Reflex."
"What DC?"
"14."
I think this is the direction I'm heading after reading the responses in this thread. If they resolve their turn quickly and give a cinematic description, then I'll award the bonus damage.
To address some of the other points in this thread:
On the "metagaming" criticism, my issue with metagaming in general is that it ruins the immersion. Whereas the entire point of this houserule would be to increase the immersion. If I can create a more immersive world for my players at minimal cost, then that's worth it for me. (Besides, do you also consider Hero Points to be metagaming?)
On the "do it secretly but don't tell them" suggestion, I don't understand what that accomplishes? The whole point is to encourage immersive gameplay. If I don't tell my players, then they have no extra incentive to do it. It just becomes a bookkeeping exercise for me with no actual benefit to the game.
I have a different opinion from some of you, and that's fine. I'm not attempting to assert that my opinion is "more correct" than anyone else's, and I hope that it is received that way.
This is a game, and people should be allowed to play it in a manner that they enjoy. If people at your table would enjoy long, drawn-out, epic descriptions of what they're doing in combat, I have no issue with that. I was a freelance writer for White Wolf's Exalted line, and there were mechanical benefits for that.
Basically, you got +1 to attack for describing your action above and beyond, "I attack." "I attack with my sword." would get a +1 bonus. However, bonuses could scale depending upon how you describe your action. If your action description utilized the environment in some fashion, i.e. "My sword flashes in the dawn's first light as it arcs down toward the hobgoblin's head," you'd get a +2 bonus instead. None of this is difficult to do, nor does it take up much time. To get a +3 bonus, you'd have to describe something in a really awesome way that either your Storyteller (GM) or the players at the table agreed that it was pretty spectacular.
Sometimes this did promote the aforementioned "long, flowery descriptions", and it did "slow down combat", but people had fun, and that's what this is all about. If there were players that didn't want bonuses, they didn't have to try for them. If there were players that weren't "good at it", they learned by listening to the other players at the table and receiving coaching from the other players. People wanted their circle (party) members to succeed, so it was in their best interests to help a friend out.
Essentially, it boils down to this: if describing your actions for mechanical benefit enhances the experience for your players, don't let anybody tell you that it's "badwrongfun".
Best wishes!
I don't really think it's a good idea to implement this because not only will it make combat take that much longer, but you pretty much end up awarding players for out of character actions. Not everyone is able to describe things in a flowery manner on the spot so you'd be rewarding more outgoing people and punishing introverts by denying them those bonuses.
Personally I'd leave a table that ends up displaying favoritism on that level.
Reward them for a BRIEF creative description AND rolling ALL of their attack and damage dice at the SAME TIME. Or saying "I need a DC 14 Reflex save please" as opposed to "Make a saving throw."
"What kind?"
"Reflex."
"What DC?"
"14."
I think this is the direction I'm heading after reading the responses in this thread. If they resolve their turn quickly and give a cinematic description, then I'll award the bonus damage.
To address some of the other points in this thread:
On the "metagaming" criticism, my issue with metagaming in general is that it ruins the immersion. Whereas the entire point of this houserule would be to increase the immersion. If I can create a more immersive world for my players at minimal cost, then that's worth it for me. (Besides, do you also consider Hero Points to be metagaming?)
On the "do it secretly but don't tell them" suggestion, I don't understand what that accomplishes? The whole point is to encourage immersive gameplay. If I don't tell my players, then they have no extra incentive to do it. It just becomes a bookkeeping exercise for me with no actual benefit to the game.
I'd write a short line, ask the GM if that was enough, and then just use that line every time.
It just turns "I cast fireball DC 15" to "I cast fireball and I add this extra bit for the +1 DC thanks you! So the DC is 16 since I gave the description."
And this wouldn't be meeting the purpose for what you wanted. All this turns into is you saying that everyone has a +1 to DC and +1 to damage rolls and combat takes 25% longer.
Reward them for a BRIEF creative description AND rolling ALL of their attack and damage dice at the SAME TIME. Or saying "I need a DC 14 Reflex save please" as opposed to "Make a saving throw."
"What kind?"
"Reflex."
"What DC?"
"14."
I think this is the direction I'm heading after reading the responses in this thread. If they resolve their turn quickly and give a cinematic description, then I'll award the bonus damage.
To address some of the other points in this thread:
On the "metagaming" criticism, my issue with metagaming in general is that it ruins the immersion. Whereas the entire point of this houserule would be to increase the immersion. If I can create a more immersive world for my players at minimal cost, then that's worth it for me. (Besides, do you also consider Hero Points to be metagaming?)
On the "do it secretly but don't tell them" suggestion, I don't understand what that accomplishes? The whole point is to encourage immersive gameplay. If I don't tell my players, then they have no extra incentive to do it. It just becomes a bookkeeping exercise for me with no actual benefit to the game.
I'd write a short line, ask the GM if that was enough, and then just use that line every time.
It just turns "I cast fireball DC 15" to "I cast fireball and I add this extra bit for the +1 DC thanks you! So the DC is 16 since I gave the description."
And this wouldn't be meeting the purpose for what you wanted. All this turns into is you saying that everyone has a +1 to DC and +1 to damage rolls and combat takes 25% longer.
Since this plan seems to be in clear violation of what the GM is trying to do with his house rule, why would you expect the bonus? Passive aggressively antagonizing the GM rarely works out well.
I award bonus xp the the party as a whole if the party, as a whole, has good rp and immersion. Fun descriptions of combat tactics or results can be part of that.
I award bonus xp the the party as a whole if the party, as a whole, has good rp and immersion. Fun descriptions of combat tactics or results can be part of that.
I'm not using XP, otherwise I would definitely do this.
If players aren't willing to provide a cinematic descriptions without getting a mechanical benefit from it, that might mean they don't want to provide cinematic descriptions. In which case there is a risk of forcing people to provide rote repetitive descriptions to maximise their damage output. But it depends on the psychology of the individual.
Possible alternative method: the player who provides the most entertainment value during a combat (entertainment equals role-playing minus annoyance) gets a token which can be traded in for one dice reroll.
Since this plan seems to be in clear violation of what the GM is trying to do with his house rule, why would you expect the bonus? Passive aggressively antagonizing the GM rarely works out well.
Because I'm giving the flowery text. There's nothing passive aggressive, I want the free +1 he's handing out and I don't like to come up with flowery descriptions on the spot, hence why I approved the description with him beforehand to make sure it was good enough.
A +1 to DC is too good to pass up, so you better be sure that I'll be wanting to get it every time.
Maybe replace "flowery text" with "interesting interaction with the environment?" That way it won't slow every combat down, but when the swashbuckler swings on a chandelier, or the mage aims a fireball between two casks of oil, or the cleric comes up with a particularly apt prayer, or the rogue hides behind a pillar, or the druid reflects moonlight into the eyes of a werewolf, the fighter bottlenecks the goblin horde in a doorway, etc. etc., they get rewarded.
I like the re-roll idea more than bonus damage.
As a GM I've found that if I get the ball rolling on flowery descriptions of what is happening the players and then toss them the ball, they will run with it without needing a bribe.
IE, I describe a few combats then when the Fighter rolls max damage I look at the player and say, "Your attack finishes off the Goblin, you want to describe it?"
Then they'll want to describe their big moments without needing a bribe.
I think it would be incredibly difficult to do something like this while keeping the game pace moving (combat already takes up a lot of game time), keeping everyone feeling like that are able to contribute equally, preventing this from becoming an 'chore' where rote extra words are added to get a bonus (thus removing the whole 'memorable') thing, and not making anyone feel uncomfortable. Further, I think a successful implementation would be different for every gaming group based on the style of play and the personalities involved.
The first step I would do, if I felt this was necessary, would be to talk to the group. Do they think it is a good idea or not? Do they even want 'memorable combat' or do they prefer to have combat be mechanical and tactical (perhaps with the roleplaying be more focused on out-of-combat situations)? Do they like the goal, but think that a better method would work, perhaps just agreeing as a group to try and be more descriptive without worrying about a GM 'paying' them to have fun?
If, after all of this, everyone thought it was a good idea I don't think the change would be horribly unbalancing to the game, although it would change the numbers a bit. The biggest change proposed would be the +1 DC. I'd be inclined to make that benefit be more similar to the damage benefit, i.e. +1 damage for damage spells (to a chosen single target for area effects,) +1 additional HP cured for healing, and if nothing else 'fit' perhaps a +1 temp hp for the caster (probably with something like a minute duration and a max of 5).
I give a little extra XP to players who go out of their way to do things like this.
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Personally I have gone the route of rewarding things with the advantage system of DnD (roll twice take the higher result). Disadvantage is roll twice take the lower, if you want to penalize something like a monster's saving through. I find that this can be done faster than arbitrary bonuses. Though in combat I usually award great roll play with cool points (1 point = 25 X Level XP).
Whether advantage or bonuses though I would let your players know that role playing in combat may award bonuses for originality and immersion, and give them examples for the benefits of bonuses that can be awarded or advantage given, but don't be limited by it. I would not do it every time, but when a person is very creative, uses the environment well, or artistically (for that player) then they get the bonus. I would not award it if it is a repeat unless it is some how the exact same circumstance.
Ex: Cleric channels energy to heal the party and prays, "Our Lady of light restore us with your grace that we may overcome this darkness."
GM: You feel the warmth of your goddess heading your prayer, reroll any ones on your heal die.
Fighter: I slash toward my enemy with the moon glinting off my blade.
Also if you want them to do it, then you need to do it for the enemies blows too.
If players aren't willing to provide a cinematic descriptions without getting a mechanical benefit from it, that might mean they don't want to provide cinematic descriptions.
It may also mean that they've been discouraged from "slowing down combat".
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Starting RotRL soon, and I want to do what I can to make combat memorable, interesting, and exciting. One idea I'm considering is awarding +1 bonus damage whenever the players give a cinematic description of their combat action (or a +1 DC to spells for cinematic spellcasting descriptions.)
Is this a good idea? Bad idea? Do you have a better idea, however tangential, to make combat more engaging?
"Cinematic" Tip:
Express enemy HP as a range in your notes (ex: 60-80) and if you feel a player's combat turn is "cinematic" by your definition, and they deal the creature damage that lands within your range, drop the foe - else hold out for a different threshold.