Generally barding is a waste. You can just get masterwork studded leather. It has zero armor check penalty, so unless your animal companion needs to worry about arcane spell failure he's in the clear.
What's a waste about it? Animal companions get attacked.
But I definitely agree with the zero-ACP approach. Start with plain leather, upgrade to mwk studded leather, upgrade to mithral kikko later.
(The only penalties to not being proficient in your armor are all based on its armor check penalty. Zero ACP, zero penalties, who needs proficiency?)
*facepalm*
Sorry, generally the armor proficiency feats are a waste, because light armor proficiency saves you 150 gp pieces for master work and medium proficiency saves you the (post FAQ now rather expensive) cost of mithral. I'm pretty sure you wind up with a higher if not the same AC spending feats on improved natural armor.
Something is not better role play because it is worse roll play. I cannot think of anything less relevant to rp than whether or not cuddles has light armor proficiency written on his sheet or not
I'm pretty damn sure KP's not invoking the Stormwind Fallacy here. KP's the type of player that doesn't like to feel like she's abusing the system, due to a plethora of problematic playings with power gamer "That Guy"s for most of her TTRPG career. She's also the kind of person that prefers to, after 1st level, let the events in the game influence the way the character develops, rather than develop a full build plan like us theorycraftists... Besides the basic requirements to make the build work (feat-intensive TWF builds, for example). If a reason doesn't come up in game, it won't make it onto the sheet (exceptions exist of course, for something that catches her excitement).
Which, in this case, she's suffering from a mild knee-jerk reaction to the ACP thing with Mithril Kikko Armor and the rules concerning ACP and armor proficiency. The problem, of course, that you can remove the penalty for being non-proficient in the armor by simply reducing it's ACP to 0. To wit, if you're not proficient in it, you shouldn't be able to cancel it out.
The RP thing simply referred to how she runs and builds characters after game start.
Source: I'm her current GM, and have been gaming with her since she started playing in 2010.
To wit, if you're not proficient in it, you shouldn't be able to cancel it out.
You're not canceling anything. You're wearing armor that's so flexible it doesn't impair your movements at all. It makes perfect in-game sense.
The stuff is so light it's like wearing a sweater. Thats the point of it.
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Hmm that is one heavy sweater... On a RP standpoint also. If your being true to general rp and not just rules.
Complete total and utter stormwind . This is absolutely not making your role playing better.
She's not particularly invoking Stormwind though. You're reading into a context that isn't there. Now, whether that's because of your experiences on this board, where it runs rampant, or due to some other reason, I can't say.
She's not claiming that optimization prevents RP. She's pointing out that there is very little in-game reason for Eastern armor to be in, say, Ustalav, or Alkenstar, or generally anywhere in Garund or Avistan that doesn't regularly trade with Tian Xia (point A). Not only that, but let's face it, who really looks at equipment outside of what they know they use? For example, I am entirely uninterested in working construction, so why am I going to go strolling through the jackhammers and what not? Why should a character proficient in light, or even more, no armor, suddenly go looking for a possibly locally rare-to-unheard-of medium armor made out of a supposedly rare material? Without something, of course, provoking one to look at it. The shopkeep selling it to you pretty hard, an ally with the knowledge of it tipping you off, witnessing an enemy using it? (Point B). Her point C, only 1 light armor is made out of metal, relates to point B in a fashion, in that Mithral Kikko Armor is not going to LOOK light, when 99% of light armor is not made out of metal.
The conditions of invoking Stormwind require the following:
1) A belief that optimization actively impedes or reduces role play.
2) Conversely, that role play must not utilize any strong abilities that could be considered "OP"
These conditions are not being met. All that is being met is that metagame knowledge, that Mithril Kikko Armor bypasses the rules regarding non proficiency, from being something a character knows about from day 1. Unless, of course, one hand waves it into their character background somewhere as having come across it. It's as simple as that. Condition 1) is not being invoked here, it's never stated nor implied once. Condition 2 is also not being invoked here, as she never said one shouldn't use strong options.
The only other factor at play is the personal feeling that Mithril Kikko Armor subverts the intended rules regarding armor proficiency. Which, given Paizo's record, could very easily have been a mistake the author didn't think of or the editors didn't catch. If anything, it's fueled by a small smattering of "rules lawyer logic".
Edit: Honestly, what happened to you BNW? Calling up Stormwind in a fashion that's obviously a Straw Man? I know I've not been around for a while but I remember you being better than that.
She's not particularly invoking Stormwind though. You're reading into a context that isn't there. Now, whether that's because of your experiences on this board, where it runs rampant, or due to some other reason, I can't say.
It is absolutely 100% percent stormwind.
If your being true to general rp and not just rules.
Only being true to the rules, not "true" to role playing as if there's no way to get them to work together. Case in point..
She's pointing out that there is very little in-game reason for Eastern armor to be in, say, Ustalav, or Alkenstar, or generally anywhere in Garund or Avistan that doesn't regularly trade with Tian Xia (point A).
1) The inner sea and tian xi have been trading for something in the area of a few thousand years.
The empire of Yixing
made first contact with the Inner Sea, and many of the
empire’s traditions (such as tea ceremonies, martial
arts, and philosophies like Pao-Lung and Sangpotshi)
have continued to shape Tian Xia to this very day.
1a) Even if kikko armor itself doesn't get manufactured in tian xi and carried over the idea can easily be put to use (idea diffusion? Is the term i think)
2) You can take the stats of kikko and reflavor it how you want: a pattern of elvish metal leaves held together with vines in all sorts of pretty swirls. Elfy shells. just start with elven leaf armor and paint the mithral on, or make a colloidal mithral and have the leaves suck it up and get infused with it. Organic steel here we come.
Why should a character proficient in light, or even more, no armor, suddenly go looking for a possibly locally rare-to-unheard-of medium armor made out of a supposedly rare material?
Dwarven armorers get bonuses for upselling.
Other druids telling you to buy it. (I have a druid that specifically yells at other characters for not protecting their companion)
"hey, i need something lighter, what is the heaviest armor that won't get in your way with 2 hours of getting used to it?"
1) A belief that optimization actively impedes or reduces role play.
If your being true to general rp and not just rules.
suggesting the mechanically best armor is apparently not being true to RP.
2) Conversely, that role play must not utilize any strong abilities that could be considered "OP"
Like getting off of the armor check penalty too easily? That there should be more penalties for it? Check and check.
All that is being met is that metagame knowledge, that Mithril Kikko Armor bypasses the rules regarding non proficiency, from being something a character knows about from day 1.
Adding metagaming to the list of accusations is not going to help your credibility or my growliness.
We do not have mechanics for it, but i know the difference between sweatpants and a t shirt, a heavy carhartd, and a chainmail shirt. I have some idea of where each is going to impair my ability to do a thing.
It is absolutely not metgaming to realize where the break point is between "its like wearing a breeze" and "feels a little sluggish" That is somethinig your character can observe directly.
Edit: Honestly, what happened to you BNW? Calling up Stormwind in a fashion that's obviously a Straw Man? I know I've not been around for a while but I remember you being better than that.
I'm Calling stormwind stormwind. If you remember me at all that should not be a surprise.
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Actually, the fallacy is that you cannot roleplay, and rollplay at the same time. The belief that optimization actively impedes or reduces role play and that role play must not utilize any strong abilities that could be considered "OP" are just frequent arguments that often come up, and were some of the reasons that the original post was made (for the stormwind fallacy).
You could easily run into Mithral Kikko just by being a characters who's concerned for their animal companion, and who'll be looking for the best armor they can get. Especially knowing that they don't fight well with heavy armor. Honestly, have you never asked a salesman for advice before, or sought an expert before buying something? Why should a character treat a life saving device any differently.
Furthermore, why wouldn't exotic items find their way around Avistan? There doesn't seem to be any reason story wise that would keep trade from dispersing random trinkets across the continent. I was just reading through the RotR anniversary edition, and even in a town of ~1200 people, there's a shop with exotic items, including weapons, from all over the world.
I mean, sure, wherever you're shopping might not have kikko armor, especially if shopping in a small town with limited resources, but that could be true of almost any armor type. It really boils down to how you run your shops. Certain GMs only have certain items available, based on population and descriptions of the settlement, so it's fine if you can't find it. But if you're running the kind of game with a local magic mart, where characters can get pretty much any magic item they want, I don't see why mithral kikko barding would be off the list.
...And BNW kind of answers most of this before I can even post.
An enormous Yixing junk, the Resplendent Phoenix, docked in Absalom's harbor in 1308 AR, representing one of the first times the people of the Inner Sea region had received visitors from that far-away land.[2]
4717 - 1308 = 3,409 years.
I find barding is even more worth it after the price multipliers FAQ. Now you just buy tiny barding and put the fitting enchantment on it. Voila, barding that's even cheaper than it was before the poorly thought out FAQ.
Lets not go there its 5 o clock somewhere is not supposed to mean am.
...And BNW kind of answers most of this before I can even post.
Ninja wolf!
8 wolves appear, howl disconcordantly, and vanish in 8 different directions.
On another note. You didn't even read the entirety of my questions
It was read. Not much point in answering if the only answers i can give are bad because they're crunch related.
If you're a spellcaster bodyguard is pretty bad. If you're not it's pretty good (shared spells is amazing, and losing it hurts. a lot)
Animal Feats: meh ability. Your critter should get an int 3 and the ability to pick up the feats they want anyway. Might let you get an early start.
A bodyguard and its master both gain Alertness as a bonus feat whenever they are adjacent. +2 to perception is never bad.
At 3rd level, a bodyguard can always act in a surprise round: this is good, but you're going to need to stack HP, because evasion is a nice feature.
This ability replaces evasion.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
At 9th level, a bodyguard gains uncanny dodge, as the rogue class feature of the same name. : meh. companions probably big. Dex isn't that big at that point and rogues aren't much of a threat anymore.
This ability replaces Multiattack.: this is a very good swap for claw and bite critters (who get no used out of multi attack) and very. very bad for one big bite or one big whack critters (as multi attack is one of the few ways they gain extra attacks, and action economy is king)
Greater Tenacity (Ex)
At 15th level, a bodyguard with fewer than 0 hit points gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks; immunity to fear effects; and temporary hit points equal to its master’s class level (maximum 20). It dies only if its hit points reach a negative total equal to twice its Constitution score + its master’s class level.
Very COol. If you have a heal spell on tap. Otherwise kind of delaying the inievitable.
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I am going to play a Courtly hunter in Reign of winter and have decided to use a Snow leopard. Which gets up to medium size.I am debating doing either the Basic Animal companion or Bodyguard Archetype. Leaning more towards the Body guard. As i am going to be using firearms as my main weapon in the AP but i want to know if its worth it for the AP. Is The Bodyguard Archetype better then the basic one?
I Also am looking at Barding for him in the long run. Yet i am unsure if that is really worth the feats. Is what you gain worth spending the feats and will the Armor and natural armor make a huge difference in him taking hits. Especially in this AP that has a lot to do with cold? Would him being able to move more freely better? What are the Implications and downsides and upsides in the long run?
Please try to Avoid spoilers as much as possible. Thank you in advance for the help.
1) I would stick with regular. I feel bodyguard trades out too much (evasion is nice and so is spell sharing).
2) I don’t think it’s worth the feats. Leather, MWK Studded Leather, or Mithral Chain are all cheap options that don’t require armor proficiency to utilize. Unless you plan on wearing heavy armor (even Mithral Breastlate with the Nimble quality can be worn now) the Armor prof feats aren’t worth it. Even without those I’d rather just have someone cast Mage Armor and save the feat for something else.
Just a head up on Multiattack before dropping it.
yeah, i've seen that but... that isn't a clarification. That is completely, totally, and utterly out of the blue. I think thats a house rule that snuck past his filters.
As to multi attack not being fair to pounce kitties , the one attack critters are already at a disadvantage for NOT having 5 attacks per round. So multi attack gives you a reason to have a T rex or ankylosaurus at all.
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I see nothing in the text that suggest it is a house rule but it is fine to treat it that way. SKR goes on to clarify twice and was still active on the thread 7 month later I see ignoring it is a house rule but perspectives differ and the op's group should make there own call with all information.
I would suggest that if the problem is a pouncing kitty getting six attacks instead of five limit the availability of tigers. There a lot of underpowered ACs that benifit from this clarification. Dropping the rule for the rest of the animal companions makes them all weaker. I see getting ride of it because there is one or two powerful ACs at the expense of make a dozen weaker counter productive to balance.
I see nothing in the text that suggest it is a house rule but it is fine to treat it that way. SKR goes on to clarify twice and was still active on the thread 7 month later I see ignoring it is a house rule but perspectives differ and the op's group should make there own call with all information.
I would suggest that if the problem is a pouncing kitty getting six attacks instead of five limit the availability of tigers. There a lot of underpowered ACs that benefit from this clarification. Dropping the rule for the rest of the animal companions makes them all weaker. I see getting ride of it because there is one or two powerful ACs at the expense of make a dozen weaker counter productive to balance.
No dev posts are official, thus his comment isn't an official clarification.
And since the text of the ability is clear how it works, which isn't what he was saying, that makes his view a houserule and at best maybe what was intended back then. But the devs view now is different from back then and they might not have the same view if they were to clarify it now.
No dev posts are official, thus his comment isn't an official clarification.I see nothing in the text that suggest it is a house rule but it is fine to treat it that way. SKR goes on to clarify twice and was still active on the thread 7 month later I see ignoring it is a house rule but perspectives differ and the op's group should make there own call with all information.
I would suggest that if the problem is a pouncing kitty getting six attacks instead of five limit the availability of tigers. There a lot of underpowered ACs that benefit from this clarification. Dropping the rule for the rest of the animal companions makes them all weaker. I see getting ride of it because there is one or two powerful ACs at the expense of make a dozen weaker counter productive to balance.
I believe the post in question is from the time when such posts were official.
I believe the post in question is from the time when such posts were official.No dev posts are official, thus his comment isn't an official clarification.I see nothing in the text that suggest it is a house rule but it is fine to treat it that way. SKR goes on to clarify twice and was still active on the thread 7 month later I see ignoring it is a house rule but perspectives differ and the op's group should make there own call with all information.
I would suggest that if the problem is a pouncing kitty getting six attacks instead of five limit the availability of tigers. There a lot of underpowered ACs that benefit from this clarification. Dropping the rule for the rest of the animal companions makes them all weaker. I see getting ride of it because there is one or two powerful ACs at the expense of make a dozen weaker counter productive to balance.
Yes, but the announcement that Dev posts weren't official didn't differentiate between older posts already made and new posts moving forward. As such, all dev posts not noted as official, were made unofficial at that time.
Yes, but the announcement that Dev posts weren't official didn't differentiate between older posts already made and new posts moving forward. As such, all dev posts not noted as official, were made unofficial at that time.I believe the post in question is from the time when such posts were official.No dev posts are official, thus his comment isn't an official clarification.I see nothing in the text that suggest it is a house rule but it is fine to treat it that way. SKR goes on to clarify twice and was still active on the thread 7 month later I see ignoring it is a house rule but perspectives differ and the op's group should make there own call with all information.
I would suggest that if the problem is a pouncing kitty getting six attacks instead of five limit the availability of tigers. There a lot of underpowered ACs that benefit from this clarification. Dropping the rule for the rest of the animal companions makes them all weaker. I see getting ride of it because there is one or two powerful ACs at the expense of make a dozen weaker counter productive to balance.
Exactly, all dev posts were made to be unofficial by the post that made them unofficial, calling out that past posts weren't an exception to this rule.
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Points noted. I stand corrected.
Edit: I trust you all are correct, as I miss blog post often. I should however give it a read. Google is failing me at the moment a Dm of the link would be greatly appreciated as to not derail the threat further.
Edit 2: the post was not a rule clarification but an explantion of the stat block for the NPC codex. All the animal companions have the -5 attack. So it is now less clear to me than ever how to build animal companions.