I think that article pretty much tells us everything we need to know.
Ninja divisions/Soda Pop has no money to fulfill the projects they were paid for.
I think that article pretty much tells us everything we need to know.
Ninja divisions/Soda Pop has no money to fulfill the projects they were paid for.
And, that they are being looked at by the attorney generals of two states.
How can 1.220.000$ of overfunding be wasted and vanish, nothing of the kickstarter in question ever materialize and they then say:
A Kickstarter campaign for a game called “Super Dungeon Explore: Legends” raised $1.3 million over a three-week period in late 2015. That was 16 times the amount the company set for its fundraising goal — $80,000 of seed money to start producing the game.The game never materialized. The December 2016 estimated shipping date came and went.
...we have received nothing substantive to suggest it has been misappropriated or used in a manner inconsistent with the promoted project. Additionally, the company indicates it continues its efforts to create and produce the project you agreed to help fund.”
$486,000 for game development after KS? Where did they develop? 5 star hotels with special services?
So basically the AG's for several states sent ND a letter asking them if they've committed fraud and got a "oh, no, we spent all the money on the game and are working round the clock to finish it" and that's good enough for them.
I guess that means the AG will not do anything for backers. If the backers want a resolution they will need to sue.
This is the tragic flaw of Kickstarter. Its a platform which only has one course of resolution when things go wrong, a lawsuit, but ensures each individual backers commitment is small enough so they won't sue.
It comes down to weather Paizo has any sort of leverage over them or the willingness to spend there own money to complete the project.
One question I have from people who have actually gotten stuff. Are the minis high enough quality, I've heard many are lumpy, bad, that you'd want a broke ND & paizo to finish them or another company to be brought in, presumably a better company, to finish?
No, the minis I received were a mix of poor (shiny, melty faces, smoothed over details), broken, and average quality. Nothing as good as the KS advertised. They also sent me duplicates of a few of them. Like they just threw what rejects they could find into a box.
Still, I'm one of the "lucky" ones. I only paid $30+ per mini for minis I probably won't ever use; better than $400 for nothing... I guess.
Now imagine if Paizo released information related to those investigations.
Which they might be doing and if they were working with the AGs of two different states then they wouldn't be able to tell anyone about it. It might explain the lack of information that Paizo is giving us about the situation. (one can dream I guess.)
Follow up question, would you consider them as good as the pathfinder mini's done by wizkids?
I haven't seen any myself but I know the pathfinder sets I've gotten have ranged from really nice for a low cost prepainted mini to really bad, but I've assumed that was due to sloppy paint obscuring details and never really considered just how good the molded figure was, pre-paint.
Over a million in overhead and operations costs isn’t hard to do when you are paying your owners 200K a year. Figure there is 5 owners so at 200K a pop there is your million right there
Since they most likely did not have that kind of money before, raising wages in respect to the money flow from the KS would indeed be very problematic.
Haven't seen anyone talking about it. Hope Paizo has rescinded any invitations to Ninja Division for Paizocon....
Haven't seen anyone talking about it. Hope Paizo has rescinded any invitations to Ninja Division for Paizocon....
What are you talking about? Give them more opportunities to either interact with the community or publically decline. They can't manage logging in to their own accounts, maybe they can manage the posture to sit upright in a chair?
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The company had been giving its backers updates — 132 of them — but “communication from a small group of backers has become increasingly vocal and hostile” and threatening, it said. Cadice told the Statesman that’s why the company stopped engaging with its customers.
People tend to do this when they become convinced you're cheating them. It took me MONTHS before I became vocal, but I became vocal because nobody was talking to me.
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The company had been giving its backers updates — 132 of them — but “communication from a small group of backers has become increasingly vocal and hostile” and threatening, it said. Cadice told the Statesman that’s why the company stopped engaging with its customers.People tend to do this when they become convinced you're cheating them. It took me MONTHS before I became vocal, but I became vocal because nobody was talking to me.
Wasn't me! I Swear!
Not this project. I bailed because I knew how it would end and I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole again after Robotech.
It is interesting that the guiltier the company is the more they blame the backers for the failure to communicate.
Customer Service & Community Manager
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I am very much looking forward to the answer to my prior question in this thread, has paizo received money for the license for this kickstarter and the answer to GM Rednal's question about kickstarter funds going to other products.
These are not questions that will be addressed in this thread.
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Customer Service & Community Manager
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Most of the questions I am coming across are either things I do not have knowledge of, Paizo has no information about, is covered under an NDA, or is otherwise not information we are able to disclose.
I appreciate your desire for more information and trying to seek answers. I'm scrambling to pick up the pieces of projects that were put on hold due to the weather related closures and part of that is checking in to see if there is any additional information I can pursue internally here that we can share. In addition to the weather closures, Glenn and I were both out for vacations and we're still playing catch up on the last two weeks.
Any comment on Cadice deciding to start replying to questions on a random Facebook group?
What about Archon's potential liquidation of all existing Starfinder Minis currently in storage at their warehouse (because ND didn't pay them)? Has Paizo had a chance to peruse Archon's offer on what to do with their Starfinder inventory?
A lot happened in the last couple days, sorry.
Btw, all of this is available on a publically viewable page. Draw your own conclusions about it.
Thrice Damned News
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That's an interesting (publically available) place to find news...
Well hopefully those miniature kickstarters end up getting fulfilled and the debacle can end. In the end though there is no excuse for this of even to have happened like it did. Can't really blame Archon for wanting to clear their warehouse either though and sell what other people paid for, they were screwed over probably in the 6-7 figure amount and just need to not take that whole hit on themselves.
So if the mini sculpts were mostly done before the Kickstarter and they haven’t paid the manufacturer... where did our money go?
According to the letter to the State AG, it was jused to fund ninja divisions "overhead"
Thanks Technarken ... that's seem almost encouraging... (at least they seem to be talking...)
That comment was posted on a random Facebook group. Not one of the multiple stalled Kickstarters, not on their site, not even on their own social media. A random Facebook group is apparently more deserving than the people that have paid this guy's bills for the last couple years.
I dunno about you, but it makes me angry.
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I'm going to be selling all my Paizo material, over $1000 worth and I will not be buying another thing from this company. Not only have they endorsed Ninja Division and assured us they would make sure they followed through, they are blatantly not making us customers a priority. This will probably be deleted because it speaks truth.
What do you think Paizo could do to make customers a priority (in a way that's reasonable for them to do as a business)?
From the above linked publicly available chibi facebook page discussion:
An official Archon statement will be out once we agree on next steps with Paizo, we are actively looking for a solution to Starfinder KS. Paizo received a proposal from Archon and it meant to be discussed in their HQ.
This has raised my hopes somewhat, tempered by the rest of that AMA section.
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I'm going to be selling all my Paizo material, over $1000 worth and I will not be buying another thing from this company. Not only have they endorsed Ninja Division and assured us they would make sure they followed through, they are blatantly not making us customers a priority. This will probably be deleted because it speaks truth.
I think its a little quick to condemn Paizo so readily.
This is a legal issue involving a large amount of $$$ and multiple companies and multiple overlapping contracts.
These kinds of things take months to resolve, not days or weeks. Given that I suspect 1 party in the agreement (Ninja Division) to be uncooperative and non-communicative this can't be easy.
Form a post below it sounds like Paizo is communicating with the manufacturer (Archon) directly and trying to find a solution that's equitable to both companies. That sounds like they are following through to me.
Given that any such agreement is likely to involve both companies losing money out of there own pockets I'd hardly call Paizo's actions "blatantly not making us customers a priority", that's a bit strong.
Selling your stuff is your decision, but before you do so maybe take a deep breath?
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Customer Service & Community Manager
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Paizo has no new public comment or information on the Ninja Division Starfinder Masterclass Miniatures Kickstarter rewards at this time.
We know that folks are hungry for details about the Starfinder Miniatures Kickstarter as soon as possible, but we want to make sure when we are able to comment on something, we're providing reliable and accurate information.
In general: information pertaining to the details of ongoing negotiations, partnerships, and other business dealings or communications between Paizo and other companies would be covered under an NDA or similar agreement.
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Paizo allowed a company with a history of failing to complete projects to pick up the license - with a manufacturer that also has a history of failing to complete projects.
I think that 'not making customers a priority' sums things up quite nicely.
Due diligence should have been enough to put the kibosh on this KS, instead it got this far and then imploded.
Exactly. I don't get how not doing your job and making sure the partners you get into bed with are legit is something folks let slide.
