Hey! I'm looking for help at building the world's strongest kobold.
This isn't just theory crafting though, so level 20 builds aren't want I'm looking for.
I'm looking for the highest strength I can get that can come online as soon as possible, while also not being a mess of a character.
Right now I'm thinking Mutagen Fighter with VMC barbarian. But it takes like three levels to start up.
What do you think?
Did you want the highest STR score or largest carrying capacity? If your ok investing in carrying capacity boosts, you can litterally carry large boats
I would think a Draconic Bloodrager into Dragon Disciple. Rage and +4 from D.D. will boost your STR up to good levels. Add in access to Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person Scrolls from Bloodrager. You can have a very impressive STR.
Another Option is Drunken Brute Barbarian/Vivisectionist Alchemist who gets +8 from Rage+Mutagen. They can Enlarge Person and get another +2 Str for a total of +10. Easy access to Bulls Strength for +14. You can easily take UMD to use scrolls and Wands since UMD is an Alchemist skill.
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The most powerful kobold would be Pun-Pun.
The most powerful kobold would be Pun-Pun.
Get outta here Pun-Pun! This is Pathfinder and No GM in their right mind will allow this to happen.
With the feat Scaled Disciple you can have an oracle (perhaps dragon] and go into dragon disciple. You're not quite as strong as a bloodrager/DD, but you have full spell casting.
Who needs high Strength when you can catch them in a trap and shower them with bullets, bolts, spells, and alchemical weapons? Who needs high Strength when you have crazy-high AC (seriously, Kobolds with the right classes can get silly ACs with not too much effort)? Even Kobold Fighters don't need more than an okay Strength when you can get Weapon Finesse, Tail Terror, and the Favoured Class Bonus. Carry capacity is the best use Kobolds get out of Strength (Small size for 3/4 carry weight and -4 Str on top of that means a single 10 lb. Bear Trap is like a third of your Light Load), and Muleback Cords and/or a Handy Haversack can solve that problem.
You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.
You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.
Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.
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You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.
Hold on... Kobolds aren't better at traps than other races? Elves aren't better with bows than anyone else? There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Dwarven craftsmanship? My whole world is a lie!
Go full half dragon, then select barbarian class, for max combat dominance. 19 strength can only be done with point buy.
Is it bad that my first thought was Pun Pun as well?
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A GM who allows blending of Pathfinder and 3.5 opens Pandora's Box.The most powerful kobold would be Pun-Pun.Get outta here Pun-Pun! This is Pathfinder and No GM in their right mind will allow this to happen.
I don't think there are Kobolds in Pandora's Box, but go ahead and look for yourself. :)
Hold on... Kobolds aren't better at traps than other races? Elves aren't better with bows than anyone else? There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Dwarven craftsmanship? My whole world is a lie!You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.
Dwarves, get a +2 on craft, and if you made a wizard you would be faster at crafting magic items
Kobolds, get a +2 on craft (trapsmithing), but this can be easily outdistanced by a human (+ the human will be more useful in combat)Elves gain automatic proficiency, so they are better?
There was a kobold build somewhere but now I can't find it.
Hold on... Kobolds aren't better at traps than other races? Elves aren't better with bows than anyone else? There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Dwarven craftsmanship? My whole world is a lie!You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.Dwarves, get a +2 on craft, and if you made a wizard you would be faster at crafting magic items
Kobolds, get a +2 on craft (trapsmithing), but this can be easily outdistanced by a human (+ the human will be more useful in combat)
Elves gain automatic proficiency, so they are better?
Only if you let them be.
Also, how did my quip turn into an argument...?
Hold on... Kobolds aren't better at traps than other races? Elves aren't better with bows than anyone else? There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Dwarven craftsmanship? My whole world is a lie!You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.Dwarves, get a +2 on craft, and if you made a wizard you would be faster at crafting magic items
Kobolds, get a +2 on craft (trapsmithing), but this can be easily outdistanced by a human (+ the human will be more useful in combat)
Elves gain automatic proficiency, so they are better?Only if you let them be.
Also, how did my quip turn into an argument...?
So you're not contesting that humans are better trapmakers than kobolds?.
I meant it is much easier to optimise a human for combat then it is for kobolds (although those tail spikes are awesome). There is also thus one build that was awesome in combat but now I can't remember which thread I found it in, or even the creator of the thread.
Hold on... Kobolds aren't better at traps than other races? Elves aren't better with bows than anyone else? There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Dwarven craftsmanship? My whole world is a lie!You say that as if they aren't already great. The only reason they haven't taken over is that it would be way more trouble than it's worth to trick the whole world's armies into the traps.Prove to me that they can do things with traps another race can't.Dwarves, get a +2 on craft, and if you made a wizard you would be faster at crafting magic items
Kobolds, get a +2 on craft (trapsmithing), but this can be easily outdistanced by a human (+ the human will be more useful in combat)
Elves gain automatic proficiency, so they are better?Only if you let them be.
Also, how did my quip turn into an argument...?So you're not contesting that humans are better trapmakers than kobolds?.
I meant it is much easier to optimise a human for combat then it is for kobolds (although those tail spikes are awesome). There is also thus one build that was awesome in combat but now I can't remember which thread I found it in, or even the creator of the thread.
Any time you are going DEX build, kobold will be a better choice than human because of the higher base DEX bonus, higher AC, and additional bonus to to-hit.
Kobolds will also be innately better at Disable Device due to having a higher base DEX.
Sure, Goblin is a better choice... unless, of course, you want those sweet Kobold racial exclusives like feats and Favoured Class Bonuses. Also Tail Terror opens up so much possibility as a hands-free, non-bite natural attack and as a hands-free manufactured weapon with the several flavours of tail attachments, including at least two Specific Magic Weapons.
A Kobold Fighter with Weapon Finesse, an okay Strength (maybe a +1 or +2) with bite, tail, and manufactured weapons is gonna deal some nice damage thanks to that FCB as long as he has a flanking buddy (Power Attack could really amp things up there, too, even with being reduced on the natural attacks). If you have two friends with Gang Up and Outflank, it's a slaughter.
... And I just realized how sorry I feel for adventurers that might wind up working their way through a warren full of traps only to be surrounded by the chieftain's Kobold Fighters with 18-20 threat weapons, Gang Up, Outflank, and Combat Reflexes. If they ambushed a party they might shred a mid-level PC before anyone even realized how dangerous it was.
As for the topic of getting Strength bonus up on a Kobold, I think either the initial idea of Mutation Warrior VMC Barbarian or perhaps Bloodrager with at least 4 levels of Dragon Disciple (although that would take a while to get up to if you're starting from 1st level). Mutation Warrior is nice since it only trades out Armour Training and it takes just 1 hour to remake your mutagen with no limit on number of times per day (just a limit of one prepared at a time). That means if you have multiple fights with some time between them you can save your limited Rage rounds for when you REALLY need them but still chug your Hulk Juice so you're not too mediocre. The 10 minutes per level duration also means there's a decent chance it might last a couple fights, too, depending on how your GM paces things out.
Humans and Half-Humans can get that with racial heritage (Kobold). I wasn't disputing their tail, I mentioned a build: it was at least as powerful as a human.(mostly because of their awesome tail)
*groggy* Is someone talking about me?
Ah, yes, loads more Alchemist bombs per day, Raging natural attack damage, a bunch of extra damage when flanking, Magus Cast Defensively bonus, and straight-up extra AC for several different classes are all so terrible, you're right. And those AC bonuses definitely don't synergize with being Small and having Natural Armour. And all without burning a Human's only claim to fame in order to get Racial Heritage! Just awful.
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Ah, yes, loads more Alchemist bombs per day, Raging natural attack damage, a bunch of extra damage when flanking, Magus Cast Defensively bonus, and straight-up extra AC for several different classes are all so terrible, you're right. And those AC bonuses definitely don't synergize with being Small and having Natural Armour. And all without burning a Human's only claim to fame in order to get Racial Heritage! Just awful.so much better then adding more spells to your list, adding more resources to your resource pool or getting another feat like ability
Hmm, you're right, but it's almost like MY examples of really good FCBs aren't all for the same classes that get YOUR examples from other races. Almost like different races are good at different things, or something.
Well, synthesist Summoner seems appropriate.