1. Child of Acavna and Amaznen
2. Phantom Thief
3. Eldritch Scoundrel
Core Races, Unchained stuff allowed, NO multiclassing...
Just wondering. Trying to build a decently effective but certainly not optimal character that I'd be interested in playing.
EDIT: Specifically in the 3-10 level range
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I'd probably go eldritch scoundrel, at least you get access to gravity bow/true strike/haste, plus snap shot and a few other rogue talents that help out archery. Your sneak attack kind of stinks but no weapon training in a fighter stinks more.
Phantom Thief has the most feats, potentially. Don't particularly know how relevant that is, though.
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Too many alignment threads--I keep reading it as "least lawful". : /
Eldritch Scoundrel imho.
Too many alignment threads--I keep reading it as "least lawful". : /
Ha! A question that's so much more important for roleplay, so much less for everything else.
So, this is the 4th member of a 4 person party, and the other characters (I just found out) are a Druid, Ninja, and Investigator. So, the Phantom Thief is out because I feel like that will stomp on the Ninja's toes... Eldritch Scoundrel obviously adds more casting, whereas Child is simply a (probably?) more reliable combatant.
So what's... Better?
So, this is the 4th member of a 4 person party, and the other characters (I just found out) are a Druid, Ninja, and Investigator. So, the Phantom Thief is out because I feel like that will stomp on the Ninja's toes... Eldritch Scoundrel obviously adds more casting, whereas Child is simply a (probably?) more reliable combatant.
So what's... Better?
Child is really bad man. Its an archetype that actually makes base book fighter worse.
Hmmm... So Eldritch Scoundrel then? Do you think that fits the party better, or is it simply better than the Child?
Well it will fit the party better in that you'll have a party that can stealth around as a group. You probably wont be too tanky and combat with hard hitting things will be tough, but i don't see the child fixing that issue either.
Also while fighter in general has some splatbook options that can help make a great archer that does more than just raw damage, the child class gives up the class abilities that give you access to that.
What you have now is so close to a party of rogues its definitely what i would go with, I'd coordinate with the ninja and investigator to find out what non core (perception, stealth, etc) skills they're going to focus in. I'd also see about being an unchained rogue instead of core rogue if you can get away with it so that your weakened sneak attack can at least provide some debuff to help keep the party alive.
I briefly looked at Bloodrager, specifically Urban, but couldn't really find a good/useful Bloodline...
If you don't like all the bloodline powers, take the primalist archetype and trade some out. Shadow or arcane might be a good start.
With an Eldritch Scoundrel, you have all the good ranged attack spells like Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray and Battering Blast. You might as well focus on those since they'll probably deal more damage overall, and then fall back on a bow when you run out of slots.
If you are considering Child of Acavna and Amaznen, consider Myrmidarch Magus instead:
On the downside (to get that out of the way first):
- 3/4 BAB instead of full BAB.
- Slightly fewer feats -- but only slightly fewer, due to the butchering of the Fighter's abilities done by Child of Acavna and Amaznen
- Starts with worse armor (but doesn't stay that way).
- Keeps Weapon training! Child of Acavna and Amaznen doesn't. If you take your first Weapon Training with the Weapon Group containing your favored ranged weapon, you bounce around between only 1 and 2 behind a Fighter of Acavna and Amaznen with respect to ability to hit things. Weapon Training unlocks things like Advanced Weapon Training and qualifies you for Weapon Mastery feats without a feat tax of Martial Focus.
- Doesn't have to eat a Swift Action every time you want to cast a spell having Somatic components (on Arcane Armor training that has been hacked into the Armor Training) -- instead natively casts in armor (first Light, then Medium, and eventually Heavy, although that last is at higher levels than what you're looking at).
- Better spellcasting, even with Diminished Spellcasting -- you get spells earlier, and get higher level spells (like Eldritch Scoundrel). This includes having the Magus spell list at your disposal, and being able to snag non-Magus Sorcerer/Wizard spells with Spell Blending.
- Gets Magus Arcana.
- Has Arcane Pool -- doesn't get the ranged-specialized version that Eldritch Archer does.
- Spell Combat and regular Spellstrike(*) provide excellent options when you switch-hit over to melee combat (unlike Eldritch Archer Magus).
(*)Not the lacklustre Ranged Spellstrike, which can be made decent, but requires considerable investment to do so, and which you are unfortunately stuck with instead of Spell Recall and Improved Spell Recall.
I briefly looked at Bloodrager, specifically Urban, but couldn't really find a good/useful Bloodline...
Arcane is pretty much the best, though aberrant comes close due to access to the tumor familiar feat.
Hmmm. Good stuff everyone. I really appreciate it. If it's not too much to ask, could someone (or multiple folks) provide me with a sample of builds for Urban Bloodrager and Eldritch Scoundrel at levels 3, 7, and 10? Ooh, and for the Eldritch Scoundrel, maybe 2 builds, one that focuses on casting damage spells, with bows as a backup, like Garbage-Tier said, and another that focuses on archery primarily?
If I am asking for too much or no one wants to then that's totally fine, and I'm sorry. I just know some people like to do that sort of thing. Thanks for all the help already, everyone!
EDIT:I know the Myrmidarch is pretty solid, but I played a Magus recently (albeit briefly) and it was cool, and melee, not ranged, so this would be different, but... I'd just rather not right now. Definitely something to keep in mind for the future, though. Thanks!
Hmmm. Good stuff everyone. I really appreciate it. If it's not too much to ask, could someone (or multiple folks) provide me with a sample of builds for Urban Bloodrager and Eldritch Scoundrel at levels 3, 7, and 10? Ooh, and for the Eldritch Scoundrel, maybe 2 builds, one that focuses on casting damage spells, with bows as a backup, like Garbage-Tier said, and another that focuses on archery primarily?
If I am asking for too much or no one wants to then that's totally fine, and I'm sorry. I just know some people like to do that sort of thing. Thanks for all the help already, everyone!
Is unchained rogue useable?
Yes, but I'm unsure yet as to whether unchained skill unlocks are. Probably.
EDIT: Actually, the Unchained Rogue's availability depends on how thoroughly they overshadow the Ninja. The guy playing the Ninja is new, and the DM and I don't want him to feel useless. That's why I looked at the 2 archetypes I did.
Yes, but I'm unsure yet as to whether unchained skill unlocks are. Probably.
EDIT: Actually, the Unchained Rogue's availability depends on how thoroughly they overshadow the Ninja. The guy playing the Ninja is new, and the DM and I don't want him to feel useless. That's why I looked at the 2 archetypes I did.
A pure one might, but with this archetype and combat style you wont, itl give you a decent niche outside of doin some damage. Point buy?
OK. Human Shadow bloodline Urban Primalist Bloodrager. 20 point attribute buy assumed.
Feats: Point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot.
w/masterwork composite longbow, raging: +10 or +8/+8, 1d8+2 damage
Darkleaf studded leather armor. AC 17 (19 raging), Saves F+4, R+5 (+7 raging), W+2
Low light vision when raging.
Feats: Point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, deadly aim, improved initiative, manyshot.
+2 dex belt & +2 cha headband assumed.
w/+1 composite longbow, raging, deadly aim: +13 or +11/+11/+11/+6, 1d8+7 damage
+1 bolstering darkleaf studded leather armor, cloak of resistance +2. AC 19 (21 raging), Saves F+8, R+9 (+11 raging), W+5
Spells known: (1) Cheetah's sprint, infernal healing, protection from evil, ray of enfeeblement (B), touch of bloodletting. (2) Alter self (B), mirror image, see invisibility.
Low light vision & light within 30' decreased one level when raging.
Feats: Point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, deadly aim, improved initiative, manyshot, clustered shots.
+2 dex belt & +4 cha headband assumed.
Celestial armor, amulet of natural armor +1, ring of protection +1, cloak of resistance +3. AC 26 (28 raging), Saves F+11, R+12 (+14 raging), W+7
w/+1 adaptive composite longbow, raging, deadly aim: +16 or +14/+14/+14/+9, 1d8+9 damage
Spells known: (1) Cheetah's sprint, infernal healing, protection from evil, ray of enfeeblement (B), shadow trap, touch of bloodletting. (2) Alter self (B), bull's strength, darkvision (B), mirror image, resist energy, see invisibility. (3) Channel vigor, fireball, storm step (B).
Low light vision, darkvision 30' & light within 30' decreased one level when raging, lesser spirit totem (adjacent enemies attacked by slam), spirit totem (20% miss chance for non-adjacent enemies).
We usually roll. But probably 25 point buy is closest to where we end up. And thanks avr!
So I hate to do this, but I literally just remembered (don't really know how I forgot) I wanted to try an Archery Skald, Spell Warrior Archetype. How do people feel about that plan?
Bump?
Are you just looking for an interesting magical archer, or are you aiming to cast spells effectively in a support role as well? In the long term a Human bow wielding Shaman is probably the most dangerous archer who has full casting, and they can have a fairly arcane feel. Enemies' Bane is death to enemies.
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1. Child of Acavna and Amaznen
...The good news is full-BAB fighter. The bad news is they throw out all the fighter feats and Weapon Training, in exchange for...uh...squat? <checklist> Eldritch Armor Training: reduces armor-check penalties for spellcasting by 15% (except that we're a DEX-based archer and the very worst thing we'd be wearing is mithril breastplate at 5%) You get some spells off the bloodrager list, but no ability to cast them swiftly. You have more spells theoretically available to you, but have to maintain a spellbook and prepare them like a wizard. Obviously weaker than bloodrager or magus (and in particular the magus archery-focused archetype recently banned in PFS for being OP Limburger).
2. Phantom Thief
...gives up sneak-attack in exchange for a boat-ton of unchained skill unlocks that you can convert every talent into. You're basically a Catwoman jewel-thief, but more or less useless in a straight-up fight. Great "magic tea-party" class, but offers nothing to archery. Can at least get Weapon Focus and one more combat feat via rogue talents. Could possibly "insta-win" by managing to steal a scenario McGuffin while avoiding all combat encounters. (More of an infiltration solo-play kind of thing.)
3. Eldritch Scoundrel
...Rogue archetype applicable to being unchained which doesn't forfeit sneak-attack (although it is delayed) and which has access to ninja tricks (ordinary rogues are restricted to at most one ninja trick)? Magus spell list. Probably the most combat-capable of the three, but that's not saying much.
NO multiclassing...Specifically in the 3-10 level range
Your funeral.
...!
Play Catwoman. Steal jewels. Sell them. Hire actually capable mercenary archers when you need muscle.
So I hate to do this, but I literally just remembered (don't really know how I forgot) I wanted to try an Archery Skald, Spell Warrior Archetype. How do people feel about that plan?
Mmm. Enhancing weapons is OK, rage powers - well, an archer could get reckless abandon and some defensive powers I guess, but all the counterspelling stuff is largely wasted on a 6-level caster IMO. It's definitely not a power choice but you might enjoy it, particularly the options under enhancing weapons.
So I hate to do this, but I literally just remembered (don't really know how I forgot) I wanted to try an Archery Skald, Spell Warrior Archetype. How do people feel about that plan?Mmm. Enhancing weapons is OK, rage powers - well, an archer could get reckless abandon and some defensive powers I guess, but all the counterspelling stuff is largely wasted on a 6-level caster IMO. It's definitely not a power choice but you might enjoy it, particularly the options under enhancing weapons.
We played last night and that's what I ended up going with. The rest of the group is a Halfling Ninja, Half-Elf Druid, Elven Investigator, and Human Ranger (Freebooter). I'm a human Skald (Spell Warrior). I'm the only (dedicated) archer in the group. I'm not sure what to choose as my Rage Power, and I'm also confused as to how Weapon Song scales. Any help?
Reckless abandon is a possibly useful rage power, especially if no one's shooting back at you or otherwise able to attack. Others may be able to make use of it - ask some of your gaming group before you decide on whether to pick it. Good for what ails you lets you counter many effects with booze. Elemental totem isn't much, but it's a prereq for air totem and greater air totem.
Weapon song gives +1 at 1st level, +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th. But, if you're affecting 4 or more weapons it's limited to +2. That's as much as you need to remember in the level range you specified.
I like Reckless Abandon. And just to be sure, that means at level 5, Weapon Song will be as effective on one weapon as it will on 4 separate ones? The +2? And on level 10, it would be more effective on 3, 2, or 1 weapon, but just as effective on 4 or more as it had been on level 5? I'm just trying to be sure.
OK. Human Shadow bloodline Urban Primalist Bloodrager. 20 point attribute buy assumed.
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and what are the advantages of the shadow bloodline?
Yes, that's how Weapon Song will work Mbertorch.
@Okkam: The main advantage of the shadow bloodline is that it gives you low light vision and eventually darkvision, while allowing you to play a human with all their feats and traits intact. Archery is feat-hungry, and it often wants at least one trait (deadeye bowman) as well. The light level dropping around you may help protect against return fire too.
Yes, that's how Weapon Song will work Mbertorch.
@Okkam: The main advantage of the shadow bloodline is that it gives you low light vision and eventually darkvision, while allowing you to play a human with all their feats and traits intact. Archery is feat-hungry, and it often wants at least one trait (deadeye bowman) as well. The light level dropping around you may help protect against return fire too.
Are there any builds where a shadow bloodline can be used for a melee bloodrager? Or is this not optimal?
Are there any builds where a shadow bloodline can be used for a melee bloodrager? Or is this not optimal?Yes, that's how Weapon Song will work Mbertorch.
@Okkam: The main advantage of the shadow bloodline is that it gives you low light vision and eventually darkvision, while allowing you to play a human with all their feats and traits intact. Archery is feat-hungry, and it often wants at least one trait (deadeye bowman) as well. The light level dropping around you may help protect against return fire too.
Oh, sure. The Moonlight stalker feats would like the shadow bloodline for a start. I didn't mean to suggest that archery was the only way to go.
Moonlight stalker feat do not take a human, because of the lack of darkvision. Bloodrage gives only a temporary bonus.
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Moonlight stalker feat do not take a human, because of the lack of darkvision. Bloodrage gives only a temporary bonus.
Absolutely true. The Shades of Rage ability is what you'd be most using from the bloodline there. For race you'd be looking at, well, anything with a charisma bonus, no intelligence penalty, and either darkvision or low light vision. Aasimar or kindred-raised half-elf stands out. Dipping into another class for feats seems likely too.
Magus spell list.
Read it again. It's Magus spell slots. It's the wizard spell list.
That means most any trick a wizard can do, so can a Eldritch Scoundrel, short of 9th level spellcasting.
Magus spell list.Read it again. It's Magus spell slots. It's the wizard spell list.
That means most any trick a wizard can do, so can a Eldritch Scoundrel, short of 9th level spellcasting.
E-Scoundrel is well set up to use level 1 slots for Vanishing Trick and level 2 slots for Persistent Dazzling Blade. Though that's not so much an archery thing. At higher levels, Heroism and Blade Tutor's Spirit stack up combat ability, whether two-weapon or Power Attack.
^Blade Tutor's Spirit only works on melee attacks. Otherwise you could use it with Deadly Aim, but I don't know of any spell that does for ranged weapons what Blade Tutor's Spirit does for melee weapons.
Yeah, I would build an E-Scoundrel two-weapon or Power Attack. It doesn't lend itself to archery in the same way.
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Moonlight stalker feat do not take a human, because of the lack of darkvision. Bloodrage gives only a temporary bonus.
Pick up the Darkness domain and you'll have it. (I ran a PFS character with monk/cleric/ninja levels taken back-to-back from 1st-level. He had a BAB of zero but was a murder-machine once he denied DEX to his opponents (which was his shtick).