So I have a player in my current game that has the story feat Damned. What I'm trying to figure out is why a player would take this feat? I get it adds some story flare and what not. And he has a back story for why he is a devil summoner. He is seeking to take vengeance on Usher and all of cheliax for his mother's horrific death. He feels it poetic to use the very friends they love so much to do it. He is also banking on the fact that being LE they won't break his contract and do his bidding, ei burn down all of Cheliax.
I am having a hard time understanding the reason for taking the story feat. Once he sells his soul, which was attempted session one, he gets a +2 bonus to any one attribute, and bonuses against good aligned outsiders. I am just at a loss as to why. I get he can have a stat boost but there are far easier and less messy way of acquiring the bonuses that I can't for the life of me get why he would run this feat with the negatives attached. More over he's not an evil character. He's LN. I just as I said, am at a loss...
Any help with aiding in helping me resolve this is much appreciated. I get playing thematic characters I encourage it. But this seems less of a bonus and more of an unnecessary handicap.
Maybe the character concept includes being headed for a tragic fall . . . .
is it the damned feat or is he going for a damnation feat line there's a big difference and there's some really good benefits from the damnation feat line
It is fully the Story feat. I have approached him and it sounds like he did not think of the after affect of this action... The campaign I am running is using Cheliax as the ground zero for the adventure, and I don't feel that was considered in the character's backstory and motivation. Which is to "burn down Cheliax and all of its holdings poetically using devils to do it."
As the affects of the feat, I feel there are far cheaper, and easier to attain without this feat: You gain a +2 bonus on Charisma-based checks involving evil-aligned outsiders and +1 bonus to the DC of spells and spell-like abilities you use against such creatures. You take a -2 penalty on Charisma-based checks involving good-aligned outsiders.
Goal: Successfully trade your soul to an evil outsider.
Completion Benefit: You gain a +2 enhancement bonus to an ability score of your choice. This enhancement bonus can’t be dispelled or removed save by the direct intervention of a deity, and counts as a supernatural ability. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on caster level checks (including dispel checks and checks to bypass spell resistance) against good-aligned outsiders. If you die while under the effects of this agreement, you can’t be brought back from the dead unless the evil outsider permits it. You lose your completion benefits immediately and permanently if you renege on the arrangement by which you traded your soul, though you keep the feat’s basic benefits.
I appreciate his want to have some cool story and theme, but having made it into session one and seeing that the player wanted to call the goal in almost immediately. There is a "Plan B" the player has proposed: Become a Lich, but would eliminate the the completion goal I feel.
So... at the end of it all, I am not sure of the want, or need for this feat, or character plot.
The session issue that came up is as follow:
He summons a Bearded Devil (I did not know they were so dang dumb), that posed the counter claim (Legitimate due to Cheliax being under assault) that he was under orders that he could not okay the deal, that his boss wouldn't allow it ("Supernatural" like business hierarchy). That at the moment, one "unimportant" soul was not worth breaking his orders.
I was then presented with the fact that they've an Int 6. And "dumb devils are being chosen because they would fall for the ruses used to barter with them."
For fear of being a bad GM I am confused on how to handle this in further sessions, and the campaign as a whole. Any suggestions, advice, etc. is welcome, and appreciated.
Like I said, to my knowledge it is just the Damned (Story) feat, and not the feat tree, to my knowledge...
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^Even with Intelligence 6, Bearded Devils can follow their superiors' orders. Now I have this vision of the Bearded Devil saying "On the advice of my lawyer, I cannot comment on the proposed deal . . ." (although being dumb and also afraid of honking off their superiors, they may end up repeating the words in weird parts of the conversation -- it would be perfectly legitimate for the PC to try to drive the Bearded Devil crazy, and even seeing the potential danger, the Bearded Devil's superiors, if they were watching, would probably think it was funny).
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That is how I ran the session. I am hoping to heal this wound this sunday, and we will see how this works. I am honestly considering swishing the scene out of the game and moving on as though it had not. My player is exceedingly frustrated, and may be dropping from the game because he cannot do the "thing he is built to do" (the full binding of Devils). So I am hoping I can talk with him beforehand, if not, I feel we (My table and I) are in for a rough going forward...
Dotin.
I think you played the bearded devil right, even if they are dumb, they understand hierarchy instinctively, it's a part of being a devil.
One of the most pervasive breeds of Hell’s rank-and-file legionnaires, barbazus know only battle and obedience. Far from the most cunning inhabitants of the Pit and poor tempters of mortal souls, what these murderous f iends lack in guile they make up for in versatility and reliability. Barbazus are among the most dogged of devils, unquestioningly obeying their lords and superiors in whatever travail is put before them.
Not every devil makes deals with mortals. Barbazus in particular are soldiers, not negotiators. They can possibly be convinced to serve a mortal for some time, if it doesn't contradict their standing orders. Opposing House Thrune, which has a deal with Asmodeus himself, would be souch obvious treason against the hierarchy of Hell that even dumb barbazu would be able to notice it. Being dumb, he wouldn't even be able to create a counter-proposal, "I can't make that deal" is really all that it can say.
If the player wants to make a deal with barbazu, he needs to propose a deal that at least seems not to contradict its orders. Only then it can exploit its stupidity, by making the task look easier than it really is, or the payment more valuable than it is.
However if he's bent on using devils to fight Cheliax, he'll need to find a way to control them against their will, for none of them is going to defy Asmodeus willingly (and that is something you should make clear to the player). Alternatively, he may seek to make a deal with Asmodeus himself.
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I guess I am going to have to be That Guy here.
You might wan't to point out to your player that his concept is not unique in the Golarian Cosmos. Dear Aby, Dear Aby has to deal with diabolists of every sort trying to knock her off her throne, all the time. If she wasn't the best at playing that system, she wouldn't be in power. Arguably, the forces of Hell are less invested in Cheliax than Abrogail II, but they have been been around a very long time, and are not unopposed, even in the LE Outsider clique. The have their chain of command down pat. Your player thinking he can trick an unimaginative soldier into treason is rather foolish. If he wants to get traction, he must first find a target devil that has believes it has more to gain than it has to lose, and convince that target that its support of the character can be to its advantage. Once he has his first asset, he can use that asset to turn or compromise other Devils. Having an imp familiar is an asset here, but never forget that the imp was assigned to its position, and will be reporting to someone.
It won't be easy, or at all safe, but it just might be doable. It will take a lot more than just a feat, even a campaign feat, to pull it off. This is certainly not a simple "I made my die roll" situation, and it looks like you handled it well so far.
Interesting PoV Daw.
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Also, it should be noted that just because a creature is Int 6 doesn't mean it's stupid, any more than a dog is stupid for having an Int 2, it just means they aren't as reasonable or adaptable. A Int 6 doesn't mean it's easy to fool them (especially since they have a better than average Wis), and trying to flummox one is just as likely to make it be obstinate as it is to be helpful. If fact, it could be argued that the low intelligence would actually make it harder to convince it of something, because its lack of understanding could make it more likely to dismiss you out of hand.
There is one way I can think of to get around Asmodeus's deal with House Thrune: The deal is with House Thrune, not with any particular member of that house. Set things up so that he has the chance to befriend and become romantically involved with a member of that house other than Abrogail herself. They could already have enemies in common and unite against them, with your PC helping put his love interest on the throne in return for her aid in his quest for vengeance.
While Asmodeus would not tolerate him wiping out the entire noble class of Cheliax or even just House Thrune, he could possibly be persuaded to look the other way as your PC kills off some individual nobles (including Queen Abrogail and other individual members of her house) or even whole families other than House Thrune.
Remember, Asmodeas is Not Loyal to House Thrune, he is loyal to his contract and to his word. He would have no problem with every noble of Cheliax dying and feeding his need for souls, as long as it did not invalidate any contracts or take what is rightfully his. Problem is, House Thrune and Aby herself very likely have some well negotiated contracts. Getting a good look at the actual contracts might actually be the most helpful thing your player might be able to do.