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Hello, I thought I had natural attack rules down, but I couldnt find the answer to a couple questions.
Can you have multiple natural attacks per limb?
If you get claws from 2 different sources, can you put claws on your feet?
You can't have multiple natural attacks per limb generally.
Also, claws on both hands and feet is a little contentious. There are certainly some creatures in the Bestiaries that appear to do this, but other creatures (such as the Deinonychus)appear to distinguish between 'talons' and 'claws'. I believe this is the RAI: that claw attacks are for the limbs with hands while talon attacks are for feet.
However, if this is for a home game, of course discuss this with your GM, who may rule that you can fluff the second set of claw attacks as talons for the feet. I'd certainly allow it, as long as you aren't trying to put claws on the feet simply so you can wield a weapon in the hands.
For PFS I'd probably say no, since there will be table variation on this. I feel this is done to prevent people from gaining claw attacks, claiming they are on their feet, and then wielding a weapon and/or shield in addition to the 'claw' attacks.
The second part is easy, there's an faq under bestiary for it:
"Claws and Talons: If I gain claw attacks, can I put those claw attacks on my feet?
If you are a bipedal creature (roughly humanoid-shaped, with two arms and two legs), your claws must go on your hands; you can not assign them to any other limb or body part.
If you are a quadruped (or have more than four legs), you can have claws on your feet. If you have claws on all of your feet, normally you can't use all of those claw attacks on your turn unless you have a special ability such as pounce or rake.
Talons are much like claws, but go on a creature's feet, usually a bipedal creature (especially a flying bipedal creature such as a giant eagle or harpy). An ability that grants you claw attacks cannot be used as if they were talon attacks (in other words, you can't "re-skin" the ability's game mechanics so you can use it on a different limb)."
Now the first is harder, the quote I thouht addressed it prohibits a natural and manufactured weapon attack using the same limb, which is not your question. There are examples of monsters with a bite and gore attack, so the answer is between yes you can and sometimes you can.
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Thanks java man, I knew there was a faq somewhere.
Yeah, the first question is actually kind of hard. What if instead o fbputting claws on your feet, you put both claws on your hands?
What you're asking is the equivalent of wearing a spiked gauntlet and holding a dagger in the same hand and asking what happens: the answer is the same, pick one to attack with. Even is you manage to get 2 claws on 1 hand, you can only attack with one at a time.
PRD, Combat section: " You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks)". So you get an attack per limb/body part so 2 claws on a limb just means the options of using one or the other for an attack.
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Its not the same, because when you have natural attacks, you get all of them at once
It's exactly that same.
The quote is in the section about natural weapons. The quote states you get extra attacks based on limbs/body parts. So having multiple natural attacks on a single limb/body part DOESN'T GRANT EXTRA ATTACKS PAST THE LIMB/BODY PART. It's super, super clear.
The combat section clearly stated that you get attacks equal to the number of limbs/body parts with natural attacks associated with them and NOT the number of natiral attacks. Normally it doesn't matter as most poeple don't make creatures/PC with multiple natural attacks on a single limb, but that's the rule.
Other than the gore/ bite combo is there a way to get two nat attacks on the same limb?
So if you have a gore and a bite, you cant use both when you full attack?
No, you can use those. The head and the mouth are counted as different body parts. It's much the same way you could hit with a boulder helmet and use a bit attack.
Using 2 claws on one hand is like putting on 2 spiked gauntlets on the same hand and trying to attack with both... Or holding 2 daggers in one hand and attacking with them. One weapon per limb.
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tell that to logan and x-23So if you have a gore and a bite, you cant use both when you full attack?No, you can use those. The head and the mouth are counted as different body parts. It's much the same way you could hit with a boulder helmet and use a bit attack.
Using 2 claws on one hand is like putting on 2 spiked gauntlets on the same hand and trying to attack with both... Or holding 2 daggers in one hand and attacking with them. One weapon per limb.
Neither one has multiple sets of claws...
The lizardfolk sorceror in monster codex has draconic bloodline and does not have double claw attacks. Not a rule citation, but suggestive.
what about tail slap & sting if the the stinger is on the tip of the tail?
The only definitve rules I have found on this are for eidolons, not general rules. In this case the second nat attack replaces rhe first, claws replace slam on arms, stinger replaces slap on tail.
what about tail slap & sting if the the stinger is on the tip of the tail?
the combat section says 1 attack per limb/body part: so 1/tail. Tip of tail is still on that limb.
not claws logan basically uses 3 adamantine short swords in each hand and x-23 uses 2 in each hand and 1 in each foot
It's a set. Would you say that Logan make 6 attacks, one with each claw? Of would he make one attack per hand? To me, it's clear it's 1/hand and that's the point I was making: Logan isn't attacking 6 people per round because he has 6 claws...
A good similar example for Logan would be a regular claw attack. You don't attack with 1 claw on your hand, it's all of them in one attack. The alternative would be attacking with a single finger.
But why do we give a flying watussi about Logan in a Pathfinder rule discussion? The relevance escapes me.
A good similar example for Logan would be a regular claw attack. You don't attack with 1 claw on your hand, it's all of them in one attack. The alternative would be attacking with a single finger.you must not have seen him using only 1 or 2 at a time then as he does that some times. and yes it would be one attack but with 3 weapons at the same time so he would be making 7 attacks with 3 weapons in each hand for a total of 21 weapon strikes. which i think would be about average for logan to make 7 attacks in 6 seconds as opposed to just 2 attacks in 6 seconds
No. Look at any real world creature that is in the game that has claws. Each limb is one attack, not each individual claw.
Wolverines ability to attack with only 1 or 2 of the blades instead of all of them would be nothing more than fluff and description. Mechanically, as far as the rules are concerned, it would be no different than using all 3 on that hand. IT is one attack from one weapon that just happens to have 3 blades. Just like a trident.
But why do we give a flying watussi about Logan in a Pathfinder rule discussion? The relevance escapes me.
Because Lady-J thought it was relevant when another poster said "Using 2 claws on one hand is like putting on 2 spiked gauntlets on the same hand and trying to attack with both... Or holding 2 daggers in one hand and attacking with them. One weapon per limb. "
a real life platypus has 2 natural attacks per one claw and one barb that uses a real nasty poison and they can use both at the same time
And the game version has a single attack.
Melee spur +4 (1d3–4 plus poison)
a real life platypus has 2 natural attacks per one claw and one barb that uses a real nasty poison and they can use both at the same time
A real life platypus has 1 ankle spur per hind leg. That's it. It has no real claws to speak of. So it's only the poisoned spur...
This really isn't bolstering your argument.
So monotremes and xmen are more relevant to this discussion than the published statblock I mentioned for a character with two different things granting it claw attacks? What game are we playing again?
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Isn't this the Paizo-hosted Subforum for the Mutants and Masterminds RPG?