I'm playing a converted Age of Worms campaign. Due to some story events, my character will be receiving the Worm that Walks template when he reaches level 20 (as well as being reduced to level 18 to compensate for the +2 CR).
Here's the template: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/worm-that-walk s-cr-2/)
The template specifies that, "Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses."
What exactly are 'physical spells?' The obvious answer is Abjuration and Polymorph spells, which specify that they cause changes to the physical body of the target. But the template also specifies Desintegrate as a physical spell. What classifies as being a 'physical' spell? Is it just when it has untyped damage? Or maybe if it requires a Fortitude save?
Just a guess, but based on the wording I'd say that they're distinguishing between "Physical" and "Mental" spells. Physical could be Acid Arrow, Polymorph, Disintegrate, etc. Mental would be illusion, enchantment, and other mind-affecting.
YMMV, of course. RAW, there is no "Physical" descriptor in 3.5 (where AoW came from) or PF, so that ability would be meaningless.
I'm going to say "anything that isn't mind-affecting is physical."
I'm going to say "anything that isn't mind-affecting is physical."
For the sake of cheese, I hope so!
Just to clarify, disintegrate isn't excluded because it's "physical".
It's excluded because it can only target a single creature. As a swarm creature, it's immune to effects that target individual creatures.
Something like fireball should work fine.
What exactly they meant by physical spells is unclear, but I personally take it as spells that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage to targets (of which there are a few). Any non-targeted evocation spells should work for the most part.
Personally, you should just be happy to be immune to spells that target a specific number of creatures, which is quite a lot of them. Focus on that part rather than the second part which is less clear.
My default assumption is that a "physical" spell is one that deals untyped damage. However, this ability seems based off of the swarm traits. To that end, "physical" as "not mind-affecting" makes more sense, as you have the body of a swarm, but the mind of a single creature.
To clarify something about the template (emphasis added by me):
Type: The base creature’s type changes to vermin. It gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate BAB, saves, or skill ranks. Worms that walk are intelligent and do not possess the standard mindless trait of most vermin. Note that while a worm that walks has the ability to discorperate into a swarm, and while its body is made up of countless wriggling worms, it does not itself gain the swarm subtype.
Defensive Abilities: A worm that walks retains all of the base creature’s defensive abilities and special qualities. It also gains the following additional defensive abilities.
Worm that Walks Traits: A worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below)—a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit points is dying. Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures function normally against a worm that walks, since the creature’s individual components share a hive mind. A worm that walks takes half again as much damage (+50%) from damaging area effects, such as fireball and splash weapons. Worms that walk are susceptible to high winds—treat a worm that walks as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining wind effects.
So they don't actually count as swarms for any abilities or spells (except when they Discorporate, but that's not relevant). Mind-Affecting can hit them but 'targeted physical spells and effects' cannot.
In Pathfinder there is Two types of damage, Physical and Energy.
Some attacks can do both at the same time.
Physical damage is stopped by Damage Reduction(DR)
Physical damage is B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.
Energy damage is stopped by Energy Resistance and Immunity.
Energy damage is Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic.
The spell Icicle Dagger dose both the Physical damage of the dagger (P or S) plus Energy damage (Cold).
So a Worm that Walks would take no Physical damage from an Icicle Dagger, but would take Cold Energy damage.
In Pathfinder there is Two types of damage, Physical and Energy.
Some attacks can do both at the same time.Physical damage is stopped by Damage Reduction(DR)
Physical damage is B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.Energy damage is stopped by Energy Resistance and Immunity.
Energy damage is Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic.The spell Icicle Dagger dose both the Physical damage of the dagger (P or S) plus Energy damage (Cold).
So a Worm that Walks would take no Physical damage from an Icicle Dagger, but would take Cold Energy damage.
What about Disintigrate? It does neither bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, but is specifically mentioned as something that Worms that Walk are immune to, which suggests it isn't as simple as just being those three damage types.
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures(including single-target spells such as disintegrate)
Disintegrate is an effect that targets only one creature. It is a Ray class of spell.
The Disintegrate spell is called out because unlike all other Ray spells it also does an area effect to objects.
When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter.
Because a Worms that Walk is made up of a Swarm of creatures, Disintegrate would only destroy one worm. Making the spell useless.
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures(including single-target spells such as disintegrate)Disintegrate is an effect that targets only one creature. It is a Ray class of spell.
The Disintegrate spell is called out because unlike all other Ray spells it also does an area effect to objects.
When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter.Because a Worms that Walk is made up of a Swarm of creatures, Disintegrate would only destroy one worm. Making the spell useless.
It still needs to be a physical spell or effect though. It is not simply any targeted effect because they mention that Worms that Walk are affected by mind-affecting spells as normal. So it must both be targeted and physical.
Why would the WtW take no physical damage from the dagger? In normal form it has no immunity to weapon damage. High DR is a problem but that can be overcome.
I have a question on this.
so lightning bolt is a line effect and I would assume works on a swarm chain lightning functions as lightning bolt - but also can target a specific number of creatures ... soooo ....
It still needs to be a physical spell or effect though. It is not simply any targeted effect because they mention that Worms that Walk are affected by mind-affecting spells as normal. So it must both be targeted and physical.
The part about Mind-affecting states that it is considered one because they all share one Hive Mind.
A worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below)—a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit points is dying. Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures function normally against a worm that walks, since the creature's individual components share a hive mind. A worm that walks takes half again as much damage (+50%) from damaging area effects, such as fireball and splash weapons. Worms that walk are susceptible to high winds—treat a worm that walks as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining wind effects.
Why would the WtW take no physical damage from the dagger? In normal form it has no immunity to weapon damage. High DR is a problem but that can be overcome.
Bard-Sader is correct, I was mistaken that a normal dagger would do no damage. I was thinking of the Swarm traits.
I have a question on this.
so lightning bolt is a line effect and I would assume works on a swarm chain lightning functions as lightning bolt - but also can target a specific number of creatures ... soooo ....
Yes in the spell description of Lightning Bolt the spell has an area. So not only dose it Effect a WtW, but it also dose the +50% as well.
In the description of Chain Lightning the spell has a specific number of targets not an area. So it would not work on a WtW.
I don't think it is saying that Worms are immune to any targeted effect. I believe they have to be physical spells or effects as well. They didn't need to specify 'physical' if they were going to just state the exception for mind-affecting spells/effects right after. The 'physical' descriptor applies to the spells or effects that are trying to target the Worm.
I'm going to say "anything that isn't mind-affecting is physical."For the sake of cheese, I hope so!
Keep in mind, they cant polymorph you or disintigrate you but they can still fireball you
Worms that walk are immune to [any physical spell or effect THAT targets a specific number of creatures] that chunk needs to be read in context.
Scorching ray: physical spell. affects a number of creatures. Immune
Fireball: physical spell. affects an area. Not immune
Dominate monster: not a physical spell. Not immune
Fear: Mental spell. Affects an area. Doubly not immune.
Do you think Snowball is a corner case?
I'm going to say "anything that isn't mind-affecting is physical."For the sake of cheese, I hope so!Keep in mind, they cant polymorph you or disintigrate you but they can still fireball you
Worms that walk are immune to [any physical spell or effect THAT targets a specific number of creatures] that chunk needs to be read in context.
Scorching ray: physical spell. affects a number of creatures. Immune
Fireball: physical spell. affects an area. Not immune
Dominate monster: not a physical spell. Not immune
Fear: Mental spell. Affects an area. Doubly not immune.
This is how I believe it works