Advice on Building Gulch Gunner

[Krell44]

Greetings!

My son and are are in the process of building a couple of Ratfolk Gunslingers who will be played as twin brothers.

My question revolves around what classes/archetypes should we look into since we will only be taking 5 levels of Gulch Gunner (Ratfolk Archetype). I am leaning towards: Inquisitor, Investigator, Alchemist, or Swashbuckler. These will be for PFS play and I since the Gulch Gunner regains grit by firing at an adjacent opponent they do not have to be ranged only builds.

I am also hoping to multiclass with something to gain Skill points as I have learned to hate not being able to do much outside of combat. Perhaps a social skill and then some knowledges that we can split up between us.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions!

[Spermy The Cat]

I spent a year playing a Gulch Gunner in a Skull and Shackles campaign. Shipmaster Kuma Nui I was a little jerk, and I loved every shrieking moment of it. I would honestly say to keep going with Gunslinger. The precision damage you get later one really adds up, as well as your favoured class bonus making it clear you go first in encounters.

But if you're set on multiclassing, the Monk archetype Zen Archer would work, if you're looking to get Point Blank Master after three levels. If you ask your DM nicely, you might be able to use flurry of blows to shoot someone repeatedly in then gut.

[Krell44]

Glad to hear you enjoyed your Gulch Gunner; gives me a little hope that it may be fun.

However, Im not sure an extra 1d6 of precision damage is going to make much of a difference vs. what I could get from multi-classing. I imagine I could multiclass into Rogue to get 2d6 sneak attack earlier than I would be gaining the 1d6 from Gulch Gunner.

[Spermy The Cat]

At level six, you'll be able to fire twice with a pistol, three times with Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload. Spend a grit to set them on fire, 1d6+1d6 kidney damage+1d6 fire with a reflex to avoid being set on fire. Assuming you're using a medium-sized +1 double-barrelled pistol (1d8), and for sake of simplicity, you have a Dex modifier of +5, using Deadly Aim (-3,+6) and Point-Blank Shot (+1,+1), all at level nine, you're looking at:

Gulch Gunner (9)
>Deadly Aim
>Point-Blank Shot
>Rapid Reload (DB Pistol)
>Weapon Focus (DB Pistol)
>+1 Double-Barrelled Pistol ("Pop Pop")

>+13/+8 1d8+13

Add that Grit point for fire, and be nice and snuggly for that kidney damage, with Rapid Shot:

"Pop-Pop"
>+11/+11/+6 1d8+13+1d6 Fire+1d6 Kidney

And if your DM allows you to take drawbacks and nix Hero Points for an extra three feats, which allows you to gain access to Clustered Shots tastefully early:

"Pop-Pop"

>3d8+39 3d6 Fire+3d6 Kidney.

That's a lot of Kidney damage there, son. And it'll go up as you progress, in both numbers and shots. I didn't even bother putting elemental enchantments on my guy, I was doing 120 damage on average at level nine.

Also, I forgot to mention. Since you'll be having the most fun dodging swings and jabbing into ribs, you could ask your DM if you'd be allowed to apply an Unchained Rogue's sneak attack to your attacks. And if you plan on being a madman and wielding two guns, two levels of alchemist would net you a third arm to reload without dropping a gun.

I hope this isn't too confusing.

[Krell44]

Well, I will look into that. But, this is for PFS so I am not sure how much of it will be legal; and I'm fairly certain I won't be allowed to apply Unchained Rogues sneak attack without taking levels in Unchained Rogue (or perhaps I misunderstood you)

How exactly are you doing 'kidney' damage?

[Spermy The Cat]

The kidney damage is the precision damage you get at level nine. I call it kidney damage because a human's kidneys are basically eye-level for a Ratfolk. And taking levels in Unchained Rogue, that's what I meant.

[Dasrak]

An extra 1d6 damage is not worth a whopping 4 class levels. If you want raw combat power you'll get more mileage out of the Fighter (probably weapon master archetype). The Gunslinger class really does give too little after the 5th and should always multiclass or prestige class out at that point.

There are actually a lot lot cool options for Gunslingers. The classes you've mentioned - Inquisitor, Alchemist, Investigator, Swashbuckler - should all work fine. I'm a bit partial to the arcane spellcaster options, myself. Both the Magus (Eldritch Archer archetype) and Wizard (aiming for Eldritch Knight) offer good synergy and the loss of BAB is manageable for what you gain. However, they're a bit slow to come online so they're definitely not for everybody. If you want combat presence, Weapon Master Fighter is a top-notch option. Unchained Rogue can work, and also gets you dex-to-damage on melee weapons for when you don't want to use your firearms. Honestly, you can make almost anything work since the Gunslinger has all the tools it needs or wants by 5th level and can remain functional for the rest of his career with feats alone, allowing you to use your class levels to diversify and do whatever you want.

[thistledown]

The thing to remember with Gulch Gunners vs other gunslingers is that you are a Grit Engine. You'll be getting a grit almost every turn by provoking, so make sure you spend them.

My gulch gunner took a level of Swashbuckler at level 6. He uses a pepperbox pistol for his gun and has a tail knife with Answering on it.

The crux of it is parry/riposte - there's nothing saying both parts must be the same weapon. I come up to you and fire - it provokes. I get grit. You take the at-op. I parry with the tail and riposte with the gun, getting to shoot you again (no grit this time). If you've got combat reflexes I can parry again (cause I do), though I can't riposte again so that's the end of the chain.

After that he's just focusing on raising his AC, for when he doesn't make the parry.

[Firebug]

How are you parrying with the tail blade? It's a slashing weapon, so Swashbuckler finesse doesn't apply (though you can still use the party and riposte deed)... did you picking up weapon finesse as a separate feat or are you using your Str for the attack bonus?

[thistledown]

Correct, I have weapon finesse separately. Also, the tailblade is never for actually attacking with, as it does a whole 1d2 damage.

I considered taking 3 levels of unchained rogue to get dex to the tailblade and free weapon finesse, but ended up going fighter at 7+ for more feats and shielding options.

[Firebug]

I recently got a ratfolk boon as well and it has enough xp to be level 2... And I want to do the Swashbuckler dip as well, but still having to take weapon finesse so I can accurately parry has annoyed me.

I "want" to use a 2h firearm, but reloading will become a problem since musket master doesn't stack with gulch gunner. In like 7 levels I could just buy a dozen guns and quickdraw, but that has weight limitations. I am also strongly considering the shadow shooting enchant.

Oh, anyone know this? Does a buckler gun occupy the hand, or can you wield another weapon in that arm like with a normal buckler? Of course not talking about twf, just iteratives before needing to reload.

[skulky]

thistledown wrote:

Correct, I have weapon finesse separately. Also, the tailblade is never for actually attacking with, as it does a whole 1d2 damage.

I considered taking 3 levels of unchained rogue to get dex to the tailblade and free weapon finesse, but ended up going fighter at 7+ for more feats and shielding options.

It just seems like a lot of work to use the tailblade to riposte. And the tailblade is still a secondary natural attack, which attacks at -5, and you take-2 to parry for every size category larger than small. So minimum you're at -7 vs medium, don't think you're parrying much at such a disadvantage.

It's a cool concept for a work around but I just dont think it would work too consistently for all that investment. It's also just a flawed archetype to begin with.

[Quentin Coldwater]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but you need a special boon to play Ratfolk in PFS. Just throwing that out there, just in case.

It's pretty common to leave Gunslinger after level 5, because you've got most of your abilities by then. Inquisitor is a popular multiclass due to Bane and Judgments, as both key off the same main stat. If you have decent INT, I could see Investigators working as well, as they're excellent knowledge monkeys.

[Firebug]

skulky wrote:

thistledown wrote:

Correct, I have weapon finesse separately. Also, the tailblade is never for actually attacking with, as it does a whole 1d2 damage.

I considered taking 3 levels of unchained rogue to get dex to the tailblade and free weapon finesse, but ended up going fighter at 7+ for more feats and shielding options.

It just seems like a lot of work to use the tailblade to riposte. And the tailblade is still a secondary natural attack, which attacks at -5, and you take-2 to parry for every size category larger than small. So minimum you're at -7 vs medium, don't think you're parrying much at such a disadvantage.

It's a cool concept for a work around but I just dont think it would work too consistently for all that investment. It's also just a flawed archetype to begin with.

If your only natural attack is a secondary attack, it's counts as a primary attack (exceptions like docile exist).