Alchemical item help

[Yolomcswaginns]

So i'm running a game for some friends recently and one of them is playing an Alchemist. We just started to reach higher levels and now that all of the alchemical items he used to use are all but useless to him now because they have no scaling for the DC and just a little bit for the damagethanks to the int bonus to splash weapons he and i both feel like he has been robbed of what was a major class feature of the alchemist so i was trying to develop a feat or maybe just a class feature to scale alchemical items up as the character levels. I just needed help with deciding what the scaling is based off of. I would definitely like to scale the DC up with the player but need help math wise to keep it balanced. I had a couple ideas replacing the DC with 10+1/2 alchemist lvls+ int mod, just adding int mod to the DC, or adding class lvl to the DC. i would also like to scale up the duration and damage to keep them relevant but haven't really thought of how much i want it to scale up i think i might make that a separate feat and have it scale by HD add a d6 to damage and a d4 to the duration for every 4 lvls any advice or help with balance issues would be

[Halek]

Look at the hybridization funnel. That lets him scale them up. For straight damage his bombs exist.

Any issues with using a hybridization funnel?

[avr]

For alchemical items with DCs note the alchemical strike feat, including the Special: bit at the end. It raises the item DCs by 2 immediately, then 2 more at 11th level and a further +2 at 16th level for an alchemist.

[Yolomcswaginns]

avr wrote:

For alchemical items with DCs note the alchemical strike feat, including the Special: bit at the end. It raises the item DCs by 2 immediately, then 2 more at 11th level and a further +2 at 16th level for an alchemist.

Oh dude nice thanks man that's what I was looking for

[Claxon]

The truth is alchemical items aren't a major class feature and the player isn't being robbed of anything.

At low levels alcehmical weapons are very effective. They usually target touch AC and cause okay damage, at least compared to anyone who isn't two-handing a melee weapon. Down the road, the haven't scaled while everyone else has.

However, there are plenty of alchemical items that can be useful, but none of them are weapons. A couple of examples:

Antitoxin - +5 bonus to saves against poison
Allnight - Avoid fatigue and stay up all night

I'm sorry but my advice to you and your player is change your way of thinking. The alchemist is a powerful class, it's just not supposed to be powerful using using the standard alchemical splash weapons. That's literally what the bombs are for.

[Archmic]

Claxon wrote:

The truth is alchemical items aren't a major class feature and the player isn't being robbed of anything.

At low levels alcehmical weapons are very effective. They usually target touch AC and cause okay damage, at least compared to anyone who isn't two-handing a melee weapon. Down the road, the haven't scaled while everyone else has.

However, there are plenty of alchemical items that can be useful, but none of them are weapons.

Antitoxin - +5 bonus to saves against poison
Allnight - Avoid fatigue and stay up all night

I'm sorry but my advice to you and your player is change your way of thinking. The alchemist is a powerful class, it's just not supposed to be powerful using using the standard alchemical splash weapons. That's literally what the bombs are for.

Agreed.

[Wheldrake]

There exist a wide variety of alchemical items, and IIRC there are a couple with improved damage. Don't recall their names offhand, but it seems like there was one with 2d6 or even 4d6 damage.

[Ascalaphus]

Bombs.

Bombs are your way of doing damage that scales up with level.

[Grandlounge]

The best alchemical item at high level are the ones like help with saves. Especially if they give you a new save like meditation tea, twitch tonic and Wismuth salix.

[Dastis]

Full Pouch

Blightburn Paste

[Avoron]

Lots of alchemical items can apply debuffs without a save. Burst jars can deafen, ghast retch flasks can sicken, shard gel can impede movement, skyrocket fireworks can blind, tanglefoot bags can entangle, and so on.

[Daedalus the Dungeon Builder]

Dastis wrote:

Full Pouch

Blightburn Paste

This.

This is quite possibly one of the most WBL-obliterating tactics in the entire game. Just don't forget to leave a few of your 2nd-level spell slots for alchemical allocation.

It makes sense, though. A lot of alchemists are trying to make tons of gold. It's why you can make philosopher's stones as one of your capstone abilities.

[Firebug]

Ghast retch flask, auto sicken for 3 rounds even on a save. Tangleshot arrows auto entangle. Shard gel doesn't even have a save, just functions like caltrops.

[darkerthought7]

Outside of early level play, you shouldn't be throwing Acid or Alchemist's fire (that's what your scaling Bombs are for). After the early levels, look for things like Troll Styptic, Universal Solvent, Sovereign Glue, Allnight, and other utility items that are underpriced for the fact that you can make them with a craft check and not expend an extract slot.
EDIT: Also, if you like poisons, consider making inhaled poisons. If you add multiple doses together, the DC increases by (I think) 2 per dose.