Slayer Sniper


Advice


Hi! I'm attempting to make a Slayer Sniper class. I was thinking about using a Halfling as the race because I can get an automatic -10 to the sniping stealth roll starting out. I'm curious if there's any way to gain additional attacks on the one attack action I'm allowed while sniping? Is there anyway I can get a full attack action and be stealth at the end of it so I keep getting my sneak attack bonuses when I attack? What should an average attack turn look like for this character? I'm still pretty green so any help would be great. We're not using 3rd party stuff.


I'm assuming that "Slayer Sniper class" refers to a class/archetype, while "sniping stealth roll" & "while sniping" refer to an option under the Stealth skill. (I don't know that the archetype requires using the Stealth option at all, although you may well envision your PC as doing so.) I'd love to see confirmation here that the RAW crowd have come to agree that you do in fact get sneak attack bonuses on a Stealth-related sniping. If not, then please, please make sure that your GM will allow it before you proceed further.

As for your question, think about it: You want to (a) move and (b) attack all on one turn. Sure, you might "move" just by popping out from behind a bush and diving down behind it again, but I believe you can also attack & move back into cover some distance away -- behind a different bush. Well, what else lets you combine moving & attacking? Charge or Spring Attack come to my mind. No multiple-attacks here.

I'll be curious if people can in fact come up with feats or whatever that give you multiple attacks before or after moving -- but I'm not sure I'll like it if they do.

If what you want is to get in lots of ranged sneak attacks, you may want to instead invest in a dash of multiclassing or build up your UMD and get a wand of Greater Invisibility. Not nearly as thematic, sadly.


I like Zen archer monk for extra attacks.


I dont think there's anything that lets you use sniping while getting multiple attacks, maybe vital strike with a heavy crossbow and gravity bow.

Grand Lodge

Master Sniper feat. Not to be confused with the rogue talent with the same name.


I haven't looked seriously at Zen archer monk (here), but the glance I've given it has me awestruck.


I was thinking just a dip for flurry of blows. I don't see anything saying you can't snipe multiple times a round from memory, but your odds of successfully doing it are certainly slim...


MageHunter wrote:
I was thinking just a dip for flurry of blows. I don't see anything saying you can't snipe multiple times a round from memory, but your odds of successfully doing it are certainly slim...

Using stealth after sniping is a move action, so its got to be something that gives an extra attack in a standard.


Master Sniper posted above allows two attacks + re-stealth as a full-round action. Penalties for sniping still apply.


So from what I'm seeing I should either change classes to this Zen Archer type or take this Master Sniper feat and get a greater invisibility ring?


Allen Aynes wrote:
So from what I'm seeing I should either change classes to this Zen Archer type or take this Master Sniper feat and get a greater invisibility ring?

Yeah, plus the level 10 talent assassinate works pretty well as a sniping slayer too if you build to have int and dex

Liberty's Edge

Allen Aynes wrote:
So from what I'm seeing I should either change classes to this Zen Archer type or take this Master Sniper feat and get a greater invisibility ring?

Invisibility and Sniping are really two different paths to getting ranged sneak attack damage.

If you have good stealth and sniping penalty reductions (e.g. Swift as Shadows halfling racial, Stealthy Sniper talent, Expert Sniper, Greater Sniping weapon special ability, et cetera) then you don't really need invisibility. You take your shot or two and re-hide each round.

Conversely, if you can see the enemy but they cannot see you then you don't need to snipe... you can take a full attack action and get sneak attack on every shot. Greater Invisibility is the obvious way to do this, but there are many others... fire from inside a Tiny Hut spell, combine a darkness effect with darkvision/see in darkness, fog cloud + mist sight, firing from long range with the perception skill unlocks, et cetera.

A really good sniper can remain hidden indefinitely and could thus potentially whittle down almost any enemy. However, you are usually working with a group that do not all have that kind of stealth ability and thus are trying to take down opponents as quickly as possible. Thus, overall I'd argue that you are usually better off with a 'hidden attacker' build than a true 'sniper' build. Though if you're playing a solo campaign or with an all stealth group... snipers are awesome.

Either way, Greater Sniper Goggles are your friends.


Easiest way for a Slayer I've found is Rapid Shot at 2 through your access to Ranger Combat Styles, Expert Sniper at 3, Signature Skill: Stealth at 5 and Master Sniper at 7. Gives you a pair of SA ranged attacks, the first gaining your Slayer level as a bonus to damage all at no penalty to stealth. Throw in Accomplished Sneak Attacker and any SA talents you can grab from your Slayer Talents. With the Halfling pick you can swap Signature Skill for Accomplished Sneak Attacker to get some extra damage.


Glancing at rings, I happened to see the Ring of Chameleon Power (here), which looked interesting for you. And of course, the Ring of Invisibility, lower down. Trick with that is that you have to "activate" it (a standard action), and every time you attack you become visible again. That's why I was recommending a wand of Greater Invis, although CBDunkerson had a lot of other creative solutions for the same thing.

EtA: As a caution, your friends may not like the Darkness & Fog methods of being unseen, unless they also have dark- or mist-vision.

Liberty's Edge

bitter lily wrote:
EtA: As a caution, your friends may not like the Darkness & Fog methods of being unseen, unless they also have dark- or mist-vision.

Yes, though this is less of a problem for a ranged attacker who can stand back and put the obscuring effect around themselves.

On the other hand, if you've got a 3rd level Flame Dancer bard in the party you can put any kind of smoke / mist (e.g. Eversmoking Bottle) around the enemies and then the whole party will be able to see/attack while being hidden themselves.


Thank you all for the help! Now one last question, it seems I can't take a full attack action and gain sneak attack on each one unless I'm invisible. Is that correct? Is there another way to accomplish this?

Grand Lodge

Only if you attack a flat-footed target, by a successful sniping attempt or having greater invisibility. (Beware, some creatures can see invisible.)


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So flat-footed is when they haven't taken an action in combat correct? Pretty much meaning anytime before their first turn right? Also I'm a bit confused about that part about the successful sniping attempt. How does that let me have a full attack? Thank you for being patient.

Grand Lodge

It does not allow a full attack. The Master Sniper feat gives two attacks on a sniping attempt.

A character is also denied their Dex to an attacker they cannot see, which a greater invisible'd attacker will be for all attacks in a full attack.


Note that a ninja can get improved invis as a swift action at 10th level with one of their master tricks. Much simpler.


Got ya. Thank you kindly for the help. I do have one last question. Does anyone know of a fear or something that gives four or five ranks (specifically ranks) in perception?


Feats don't ever give skill ranks in Paizo products. You'd need to go to D&D 3.5's expanded psionic handbook or 3rd party. Maybe Dreamscarred Press? They redid psionics for PF.

Edit: and they've changed it, see Ryan's post below. Come to think of it a character with weapon training (not a slayer, rogue or ninja, obviously) could take the advanced weapon training feat for versatile training.


Take cunning from the villain codex. toughness for skill ranks


Is there a place I can find this feat? Like d20pfsrd?


Allen Aynes wrote:
Is there a place I can find this feat? Like d20pfsrd?

I dont think its up there yet but will probably show up in the next couple weeks.

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