Reduce Person + Swallow Whole?

[Murdock Mudeater]

Probably covered somewhere. If a medium creature is shrunk, and then swallowed by another medium creature, what happens when reduce person wears off? Do they burst forth? Or are they stuck in the reduced size until they escape?

Same question regarding Enlarge person while cast on a small creature currently inside a medium creature via Swallow Whole?

Been kicking around the idea of a Sylvan Wildblooded Sorcerer with a Frog Companion. Sorcerer shrinks people so the frog can swallow them. Entirely silly and probably not very compeditive. Sounds really fun, though.

[Val'bryn2]

For the small person, it's a nonissue, as being swallowed terminates line of effect.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Probably covered somewhere. If a medium creature is shrunk, and then swallowed by another medium creature, what happens when reduce person wears off? Do they burst forth? Or are they stuck in the reduced size until they escape?

Same question regarding Enlarge person while cast on a small creature currently inside a medium creature via Swallow Whole?

Been kicking around the idea of a Sylvan Wildblooded Sorcerer with a Frog Companion. Sorcerer shrinks people so the frog can swallow them. Entirely silly and probably not very compeditive. Sounds really fun, though.

You can not target a creature that's inside another creature.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

You can not target a creature that's inside another creature.

Can they not target themselves? If they can't cast spells while swallowed, that does solve one of the questions (and make this one a lot more viable).

[Knight who says Meh]

Pretty sure enlarge doesn't work if you're in a space that's too small.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Knight who says Meh wrote:

Pretty sure enlarge doesn't work if you're in a space that's too small.

That is how I understand it.

So, by the same logic, when reduce person ends, would they be unable to increase to their normal size if inside something without adequate space?

[Jader7777]

Yep, a creature cannot be enlarged if it doesn't have the space to grow.

Now here's a doosy, what if the creature is already enlarged and swallows a creature one category smaller only to have the spell dispelled/expire? Free permanency on the enlarge? Free reduce person on the swallowee? A big sticky red mess? Exciting!

[Murdock Mudeater]

Jader7777 wrote:

Yep, a creature cannot be enlarged if it doesn't have the space to grow.

Now here's a doosy, what if the creature is already enlarged and swallows a creature one category smaller only to have the spell dispelled/expire? Free permanency on the enlarge? Free reduce person on the swallowee? A big sticky red mess? Exciting!

And this is basically why I haven't built the PC yet, just a big mess of rules....

Main thing is that I don't want my Enlarged Frog to explode when his spell ends and the Reduce Person on the swallowed creature also ends, resulting in a medium frog that has swallowed a Large humanoid....

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

You can not target a creature that's inside another creature.

Can they not target themselves? If they can't cast spells while swallowed, that does solve one of the questions (and make this one a lot more viable).

The ongoing damage from crushing and acid is going to make that concentration check mighty difficult.

[RealAlchemy]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

You can not target a creature that's inside another creature.

Can they not target themselves? If they can't cast spells while swallowed, that does solve one of the questions (and make this one a lot more viable).

The ongoing damage from crushing and acid is going to make that concentration check mighty difficult.

True, but wands and potions are an option. I can just see a magus getting swallowed whole, tapping himself with a wand of longarm, and grabbing the swallower's uvula to climb out.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Well, the Frog Companion option is on the lamer side of swallow damage. It only does 1d4 bludgeoning per round, not acid at all. They'd still count as grappled, so that is an issue. But, yeah, not enough to really stop casting if they have decent caster level.

The main value is that it takes them totally out of combat for a round or two, and the frog is still able to do other things while this is happening and isn't even considered grappled.

Anyway, the larger concern is what happens when reduce person wears off, rather than what happens if they enlarge themselves from inside.

[Calth]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Well, the Frog Companion option is on the lamer side of swallow damage. It only does 1d4 bludgeoning per round, not acid at all. They'd still count as grappled, so that is an issue. But, yeah, not enough to really stop casting if they have decent caster level.

The main value is that it takes them totally out of combat for a round or two, and the frog is still able to do other things while this is happening and isn't even considered grappled.

Anyway, the larger concern is what happens when reduce person wears off, rather than what happens if they enlarge themselves from inside.

By RAW, creatures that have been swallowed whole may only attempt to break the grapple or cut themselves out with an in-hand light slashing or piercing weapon. That's all the ability allows. Casting or using wand/potions are definitely going to be subject to table variation.

[Val'bryn2]

Personally, the way I'ld rule such a corner case in the game, is that the frog would vomit forth the swallowed creature as it's becoming too big to qualify for swallow whole, and they both are sickened for 1 round due to EXTREME discomfort over the whole issue.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

By the rules of Enlarge Person, the spell automatically fails if there is no space for the target creature to expand to.

[Val'bryn2]

I'm sorry, I was unclear, I meant specifically for if a Reduce Person wore off. For an Enlarge, it wouldn't work. You'ld just provide them with a bit more food.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Yeah, weirdly, Reduce Person doesn't have any rules for what happens when the spell wears off and you don't have room to return to normal size...

[Total Biscuit]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Yeah, weirdly, Reduce Person doesn't have any rules for what happens when the spell wears off and you don't have room to return to normal size...

Would you just be considered to be squeezing? Assuming a small creature is half the size of a medium creature (I'm 99% sure it is but can't remember for certain off the top of my head) then a medium creature can still fit in the space he occupied when small, he just moves half speed and takes penalties to attack and AC.

If he was already squeezing as a small creature when it wore off, then he'd need Escape Artist to get free, I think. No idea what the DCs would be, though.