Using Stone Shape to Make Tunnels??

[Fenrat]

Howdy Folks,

I've got some inventive players trying to use Stone Shape to tunnel they way through parts of the dungeon they are in. They recognize that it will take a while, as their druid can only "sculpt" 17 cubic feet of stone per application of the spell, but they still want to do it. These same players also feel it is possible to make a thin stone wall to block a dungeon corridor by pulling in the side walls.

Any thought or ideas here? .... Should I allow this? The spell does talk about making a door ... isn't that just a really thin tunnel?

[Lathiira]

Go for it. In one game I pulled the same stunt with a tunnel, though we made it really narrow and used gaseous form to pass through. A thin stone wall can work, but it won't take much to break through it.

[Scrapper]

the only thing that will stop them is an area of worked/fitted stone as stone shape targets a single stone object, so a well designed dwarven dungeon may be a druids worst nightmare...

[deuxhero]

Tunneling is definitely a legal use for Stone Shape. If such a tunnel is sturdy is a question for an architect (though I doubt it will be a problem with natural stone if they don't get too crazy. Worked stone is a wholenother problem)

Moving the sides inward should be doable. A level appropriate bruiser (or better yet, a team of them, as sharing spaces outside of combat is reasonable) should be able to clear 10 feet of stone in reasonable out of combat time, so it's really only much of an issue in combat. If it gets out of hand, there are a few ways to shut it down

1: Say the spell centers on the touched point. Not really doable if you've already let them have their fun with it though
2: Much more reasonably after they've been using it, you can invoke the "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks" bit for dedicated mining tools (picks and hammers) vs. stone. Any dungeon built of stone should have these anyways. This is especially so if the PCs become known to do this, it's a hard secret to keep because any examination of the dungeon afterwards will make it pretty obvious.
3: just make hallways longer than 10 feet across (you need to to make huge creatures actually fit anyways) and include multiple routes

If they are casting then resting (I can't tell), punish them for that in the many detailed ways.

[Klorox]

It's not very efficient, given the small number of Cu' you can excavate with one spell (unless you just want to tunnel through a wall, but it'sentirely feasible if you spend time on it

[deuxhero]

Note that by level 5 (when stoneshape first comes online), just having the "fighter" of the party bash through stone isn't that much slower, especially if mining tools are considered effective against stone (and uses considerably fewer resources, though it is a lot nosier). Anything that comes from tunneling is hardly a problem exclusive to Stone Shape.

[_Ozy_]

A better option to blocking a corridor is to make thicker 'bars' instead of a thinner uniform wall.

[VRMH]

Digging an actual "tunnel" is quite a bit different from merely creating a hole; a Knowledge(engineering) or Profession(mining engineer) roll would be in order I'd say.

[Mathmuse]

Fenrat wrote:

Howdy Folks,

I've got some inventive players trying to use Stone Shape to tunnel they way through parts of the dungeon they are in. They recognize that it will take a while, as their druid can only "sculpt" 17 cubic feet of stone per application of the spell, but they still want to do it. These same players also feel it is possible to make a thin stone wall to block a dungeon corridor by pulling in the side walls.

Any thought or ideas here? .... Should I allow this? The spell does talk about making a door ... isn't that just a really thin tunnel?

It is easy to nerf Stone Shape if you want to, because the exact wording says "an existing piece of stone," which could be interpreted to mean it can shape only continuous stone. A wall made of fitted small stones, or cracks in the supposedly solid stone between dungeon rooms would slow down the stone shape greatly. Some form of restraint on the spell is necessary, or spellcasters could collapse tower strongholds by Stone Shaping the foundation.

I prefer a compromise with my players: don't abuse the spell and I won't figure out reasons why the abuse won't work. That leaves the spell more flexible for sensible uses.

I don't consider tunneling an abuse. It is slow and involves a lot of manual labor to haul the reshaped stone away. The stone doesn't just disappear, but it can be shaped into 1-foot spheres for rolling away. An organized enemy that patrols the area will catch them.

Even without a patrol, the GM does not have to make the tunneling predictable. We draw our dungeons on flat paper, but real tunnels are not necessarily level. Imagine them breaking through to a room only to discover that their hole is five feet above the floor of the room. Or a cave-in under their feetcould drop them down into the level below. Unusual solutions lead to unusual complications. And complications spice up the adventure.

As for thin stone walls to block off enemies, some enemies own picks or stone chisels.

[Azothath]

Fenrat wrote:

... use Stone Shape to tunnel... druid can only "sculpt" 17 cubic feet of stone per application of the spell, but they still want to do it. These same players also feel it is possible to make a thin stone wall to block a dungeon corridor by pulling in the side walls...

yes - completely BTB.

tunnels should be 3*6.5ft(size of a doorway) to avoid squeezing medium sized creature, so that's 19.5sq ft per linear ft. They also have to put that stone somewhere (it doesn't disappear), so many "free" bricks(4*4*8inch {or 229.5 bricks per 17sq ft})!
You could hand wave it to 1 linear ft per casting creating 230 bricks (close enough).

BTW density of sandstone is 134-147lb/cuft, stone 144-175, and granite 165-172. Each 5-foot square of the wall has hardness 8 and 15 hit points per inch of thickness (Wall of Stone).

They'll have to make a skill check to make a door (moving part) out of stone. A secret door with a Perception check to find equal to the crafting DC. Hopefully he's a dwarven druid.

Burrow 3, Disintegrate 5, are faster.

[Fenrat]

Thanks Folks! Appreciate the thoughts!