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How are bonuses to initiative checks handled in combat?
Terrain Training (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier may select a terrain type from the ranger Favored Terrains table (Core Rulebook 65). As a standard action, he can shout orders that grant all allies within 60 feet a competence bonus equal to his Charisma modifier on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, and Survival checks while they are in this terrain for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 his cavalier level. At 12th level and every four levels thereafter, the cavalier may select a new terrain type that this ability can affect.
Standard action to activate, lasts for 1/2 class level in rounds, but modifies initiative checks....Does this ability actually raise the initiative of characters AFTER combat starts?
I've never seen any other ability that functions like this, hence the question. I love the rest of this order's abilities, but I don't really understand how this one is supposed to function.
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You can lower your initiative during combat so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to raise it.
There are mechanical problems that arise from increasing initiative during combat, which don't come up if your initiative is lowered.
For example, Order of the Land PC rolls 16 for initiative, and their buddy rolls 15. Order of the Land PC has a +2 CHA, so this ability adds +2 initiative to the existing initiative step of their allies. Their buddy is now initiative 17, an initiative step which has already happened. So now Order of the Land PC's turn is resolved and the GM moves from step 16 down to step 15, effectively skipping his buddy who has now already gone at initiative step 17.
Lowering initiative during combat would just mean they act later in the turn, but they still act, so no mechanical issues there.
Though, under closer reading of the ability, it doesn't list how often it can be used, so perhaps the intention is that it is used constantly while outside of combat, with the bonuses applying to the initiative check itself, not actually affecting the initiative step while in combat. This, despite referencing standard action and rounds in this confusing manner.
You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
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You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?
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I know no rules that actually deal with how initiative changes during combat get resolved, but it seems like the simplest way to deal with it would be to allow players to choose if they apply the adjustment immendiately or at the beginning of the next round of combat.
That way, if you would loose your place in initiative order, you can choose to wait for the next round to get the benefit.
It's like anything that the rules don't comprehensively describe. Up to the GM to implement when it happens based on what's best for the situation at hand at that table.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?
"Ok my clarvoience spell showed me they are just on the other side of this wall, you do that speech to make us ready to surprise them"
"Wonder power 'Terrain Training' activate!!!"
Whole party opens the doer and rolls initiative.
So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at.
It's how long you receive the bonuses, and the type of action you take to activate those bonuses for everyone.
As James Risner mentions, it would be most useful when you know you're about to attack someone.
So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
It's the kind of ability that comes into play when YOU are the ambushers for a change.
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So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at.
It's how long you receive the bonuses, and the type of action you take to activate those bonuses for everyone.
As James Risner mentions, it would be most useful when you know you're about to attack someone.
The issue is that since it calls itself a standard action, most GMs I encounter won't let me use it outside of combat. I know, this isn't how it works, but a large number of GMs see the game as either in combat or out of combat and don't put the two together.
The issue is that since it calls itself a standard action, most GMs I encounter won't let me use it outside of combat. I know, this isn't how it works, but a large number of GMs see the game as either in combat or out of combat and don't put the two together.
That must really nerf Mage Armor.
The issue is that since it calls itself a standard action, most GMs I encounter won't let me use it outside of combat. I know, this isn't how it works, but a large number of GMs see the game as either in combat or out of combat and don't put the two together.
That's a GM problem. A game where you can never cast spells unless you're in a fight sounds pretty... novel, though.
The issue is that since it calls itself a standard action, most GMs I encounter won't let me use it outside of combat. I know, this isn't how it works, but a large number of GMs see the game as either in combat or out of combat and don't put the two together.So then what is it talking about with standard action and a duration of rounds?You'd have to activate the ability before combat started for it to actually increase initiative checks, as initiative is only rolled once (at the start of combat) receiving a bonus to the check after it has been made doesn't do anything.
You don't go back and adjust attack rolls from last turn because you got a buff this turn.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at.
It's how long you receive the bonuses, and the type of action you take to activate those bonuses for everyone.
As James Risner mentions, it would be most useful when you know you're about to attack someone.
Point out that casting a spell is a standard action (usually). So that would mean wizards can't cast mage armor before combat. Or anyone else use spells to prebuff before any combat, if you're not allowed to take standard actions outside of combat.
Ultimately this isn't a problem of the game, the ability works just fine (even though it isn't particularly good). The problem here is a GM that doesn't understand the rules and makes arbitrary decisions.
well it's not that super crazy to say you probably can't do this out of combat. If you're aware of the enemy and their not aware of you, and you have intent to fight them, the GM could call for initiative then, giving you a surprise round, which would be to late for your ability.
I mean, I guess a GM could to screw you out of the ability.
I'm imagining you expect enemies on the other side of the door, you activate the ability (giving your pep-talk) as everyone moves into position around the door. One person opens (or breaks down) the door starting the surprise round. As a GM, the surprise round starts when one team finally does something the other side notices.
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Not debating this one anymore, but wanted to clarify this point:
The issue is that since it calls itself a standard action, most GMs I encounter won't let me use it outside of combat. I know, this isn't how it works, but a large number of GMs see the game as either in combat or out of combat and don't put the two together.That's a GM problem. A game where you can never cast spells unless you're in a fight sounds pretty... novel, though.
It is a GM problem, but I have noticed that GMs very often allow spells out of combat, in many situations where they don't allow players to use other combat actions.
The classic example is readied actions in a pre-generated scenario where it calls for a surprise round. Sure, players can cast mage armor ahead of time, but readied actions, they've got to wait until after combat starts.