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Hi everyone,
I've read some tidbits about such type of character here and there, but didn't really find much information on it (Admittedly, I haven't been at my best for some time now, so maybe I am looking in the wrong places).
I am planning on playing in a 'hard' game at level 14, and the group is REALLY looking for a ranged damage dealer (like a Zen Archer, or Paladin Archer, along those lines) - I like archers, I have played archer Bards, Zen monks, Rangers, etc, and was dabbling with the possibility of going Inquisitor, Warpriest and/or Paladin (they can all make beast archers I agree), but this time would like to do something different, so I remembered this option.
Could someone point me in the right direction for me to dig further into it, or offer any build advices? Is such a character viable at level 14? Anyone has experience with it?
Group is made of a Fighter, Cleric and Wizard btw.
Any feedback would be most welcome.
Cheers.
You'll want a high dex, and Weapon Focus (ray). A ratfolk will give you ability bonuses where you want it, and it's small (another +1 to hit).
I'd go with wizard, since you can specialize as an admixture evoker and change your scorching ray to any one of 4 energy types. You also get a little extra damage with your blasts, which doesn't hurt. Take the feats that allow you to specialize in a spell (scorching ray), and maybe craft a wand of it so you never run out.
A blaster character can be effective. You still have access to a lot of good buffs like Haste and such, so you don't have to always just blast, either.
I love playing blasters. They may not be the best kind of character, but blowing people up is always satisfying!
First of all, thanks for the advice :D
I think the Wizard in the group is already blasting focused (or inclined), so I wouldn't want to overlap him.
Also... I'm not sure if a Ray focused wizard can take the place of an archer, even as far as simple damage goes, without using the BIG guns like Fireball, Chain Lightning, poisonous clouds and such...
Just looking at a 'simple' level 14 archer pumping out (being moderate here) 4 arrows at +15 to damage each, I'm not sure how the Ray dude can keep up. I'd still like to stat him up, to take a look though :D
Single Target DPS? Hmmmmm. Haven't looked at the forum boards about this so I'm just going to post what I've been theory crafting. Sadly ray builds have seriously fallen off from 3.5. If you can get your dm to let you play a spellwarp sniper(3.5 prc) it would be a huge buff
Best Ray Spells I've found
1. Scortching Ray- falls off because CL cap and rainbow energy resistance prevalence
2. Disintegration- sucks if they make their save or if you miss
By lv14 I would have to choose disintegration despite its flaws
Hence we want CL boosts and Save DC boosts like crazy. Hit chance is nice but most things have low touch ac
Rouge Lv1 + Arcane Gun Wizard Lv1 + Arcanist Lv4 + Arcane Trickster Lv8
Exploits
Extra Metamagic, Potent Magic
Feats
Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Maximize Spell, Focused Spell, Empower Spell, Spell Focus/Greater, Spell Specialization, Spell Pen/Greater
Traits(cant remember the names atm)
Metamagic Cost Reduction, CL boost +2 up to HD
Items
+5 Pistol, Backup Pistol, Staff of the Master, Metamagic Rods, Any CL or Dc boosters
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Scorching Ray is capped at level 11, but Empower, Maximize and Quicken become easier to use with each new spell level. At character level 14 you are already at spell level 7 which allows a Quickened scorching ray (12d6) and an Empowered Maximized (72 + 12d6 / 2) per round. That's 135 damage in average, not bad in comparison to 200 HP of an average CR 14 creature.
I'd go sorcerer here, for the additional spells per day over wizard. Since you really need to hit, halfling (Small, +2 Dex) should be a good choice. Draconic bloodline (red dragon or something else fire related) adds +1 damage per die, resulting in +30 damage in average. Elemental bloodline (earth) gives you the backup option of Scorching Rays with acid damage - at level 14 some foes are resistant / immune to fire. You can pick up both via the Cross-blooded sorcerer archetype.
Or you simply play a kineticist.
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I'll second going Kineticist: it sounds like what you want is a ranged damage dealer which is different from an archer - which is what the Kineticist does. It basically fills the same role in the party as an archer, but it does it in a very different sort of way.
It doesn't have quite as high single target damage, but it has AOEs and more utility to compensate.
Of note: Dwarfs & Half-Orcs both have awesome favored class bonuses. (If you're going Earth or Fire elements respectively.)
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If you really want to go with an arcane blaster though, the standard route would be
Wizard (evoker) 13 / Sorcerer crossblooded (draconic/orc) 1
That and make sure to grab the trait to jack up your caster level +2 (max of character level).
In total, you get +3 damage per dice for an evocation of your draconic element, which nearly doubles your damage.
But... your group already has a wizard, and I generally don't find class duplication to be as fun.
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For a ranged touch attack specialist arcane character, don't forget enervation. Enervation is nice because it serves a lot of different functions and is not subject to energy resistance.
Also, look into snowball at low levels (and intensified snowball after level 5) for another damage type option.
Keep in mind that in addition to enervation, there are a few other nice debuffs that kind of fall into your lap as a ranged attack specialist wizard: ray of enfeeblement and ray of exhaustion come to mind.
If you really want to go with an arcane blaster though, the standard route would be
Wizard (evoker) 13 / Sorcerer crossblooded (draconic/orc) 1
That and make sure to grab the trait to jack up your caster level +2 (max of character level).
In total, you get +3 damage per dice for an evocation of your draconic element, which nearly doubles your damage.
But... your group already has a wizard, and I generally don't find class duplication to be as fun.
Where's the orc bloodline from? it's not in the books I have.
In a surprising twist, Orcs of Golarion!
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I would think an Arcanist Could get some powerful Scorching Rays going.
Potent Magic +2 CL, Spell Specialization +2 CL, Mage's Tattoo +1 CL= +5 CL with very little effort. So by Level 7 you can will be slinging 3 rays for 12D6. At level 8 you can start Applying Empower. Sooner if you take the Magical Lineage Trait.
The downside is you need School Savant for Admixture so you do not get Resistance Gibbed.
The other Route was Mentioned of Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/Admixture Wizard X. Most people go Wizard 5 first for Haste/Fireball. But If you go Sorcerer First you can nab the trait that is Sorcerer specific that adds +1 force damage to your spells. This is super useful with Dazing Spell and other rider Effects as Force damage is the least resisted energy type take fully damages Incorporeal Creatures.
Last thing of Note.
Arcane Strike- Rays ARE weapons and EACH ray would get the bonus from Arcane Strike. Early Game it is ugly. +1 for 1 ray...but once you get +3 to 3 Rays it no longer looks that bad of an option. Also it is a good Feat to use with Polymorph Forms like FotD.
Where's the orc bloodline from? it's not in the books I have.Orcs of Golarion. Or the PFSRD
thanks
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Last thing of Note.
Arcane Strike- Rays ARE weapons and EACH ray would get the bonus from Arcane Strike. Early Game it is ugly. +1 for 1 ray...but once you get +3 to 3 Rays it no longer looks that bad of an option. Also it is a good Feat to use with Polymorph Forms like FotD.
Be aware that the GM may use this FAQ to shut down Arcane Strike on every ray, limiting it to one or even none.
How attached are you to being a wizard or sorcerer?
You could make a pretty interesting ray-focused cleric. Negative energy channeling, take the Channel Ray feat from the Ranged Tactics Toolbox. Your damage will be 7d6 at level 14 (9d6 if you're wearing a headband of negative channeling) and will keep increasing as you level, has a range of 30 ft per channeling die, and benefits from Weapon Focus (ray). The biggest drawback here is that even with Extra Channeling and a high Cha, you're limited to ten or so channels per day.
My other suggestion would be a spellslinger wizard. You're basically a gunslinger, but you can magically enhance your weapon at the cost of spell slots, and with the abundant ammunition and reloading hands spells you don't even have to buy bullets. You can also fire your ray spells through your gun, increasing their damage. You give up half your spell list and your arcane bond, but you're arguably better than a normal gunslinger.
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Be aware that the GM may use this FAQ to shut down Arcane Strike on every ray, limiting it to one or even none.Last thing of Note.
Arcane Strike- Rays ARE weapons and EACH ray would get the bonus from Arcane Strike. Early Game it is ugly. +1 for 1 ray...but once you get +3 to 3 Rays it no longer looks that bad of an option. Also it is a good Feat to use with Polymorph Forms like FotD.
Wow. What a piss poor FaQ from Last month. If I am reading that correctly it almost looks like it would not work on Natural weapons either anymore due to them calling out Manufactured weapons.
I would go Sorcerer if your level 14, I just started a blaster sorcerer recently.
Take the Orc Bloodline. At level 13 trade your bonus feat for the havok bloodline mutation.
You know add +2 damage for every dice you roll, you can go crossblooded for another +1 to a specific element if you are ok with penalties.
For me I took the tattoed Archetype instead which gives you a feat that boosts your evoc caster level, gives you a really cool tattoo familiar and the amazing ability of handing out spell like abilities (you can give these to your familiar)
For your single target spell you take battering blast spell and apply that trait that lowers metamagic by 1, apply intense so at level 14 and the +1 caster level your throwing out 3 range touch attack force blasts (caster level 15 with the mage tattoo feat) that do 7d6, combined 21.
You can empower that to do roughly 140 points of damage with your 1st level spell slots and throw out an a standard quicken with your 6th level slots.
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You could go with some form of Arcane Trickster and try to snipe from Improved Invis. to stack in sneak dice. that would also complement the "Fighter, Cleric and Wizard" group with someone with Rogue skills. and let you share books with the Wiz player...
3 levels Rogue, 3 levels Wiz and 8 levels Arcane Trickster... (6d6 sneak dice... and there's a new feat that would up that to at least 7d6. So your Ray of Frost would do 1d3+7d6? Pretty good for a 0 level spell...)
Consider something different... a Halfling Wizard. Or a Hafling Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster.
They will get attack advantages from Dex and being small. As a ray specialist,, you're no focused on spell save DCs so you don't need the Int of a swollen brain.
And there's at least one cute image of one from a Dragon magazine cover.
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3 levels Rogue, 3 levels Wiz and 8 levels Arcane Trickster... (6d6 sneak dice... and there's a new feat that would up that to at least 7d6. So your Ray of Frost would do 1d3+7d6? Pretty good for a 0 level spell...)
With Accomplished Sneak Attacker you now only need to dip 1 level in Unchained Rogue. (Or Snakebite Striker Brawler works too - and gets better HP/Saves, though fewer skills.)
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3 levels Rogue, 3 levels Wiz and 8 levels Arcane Trickster... (6d6 sneak dice... and there's a new feat that would up that to at least 7d6. So your Ray of Frost would do 1d3+7d6? Pretty good for a 0 level spell...)With Accomplished Sneak Attacker you now only need to dip 1 level in Unchained Rogue. (Or Snakebite Striker Brawler works too - and gets better HP/Saves, though fewer skills.)
the big thing to me would be that the OP would be completing the "Classic Four" members of an adventuring band. "Fighter, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue". Now if one of them is an Elf (wizard maybe?) and one a Dwarf (the cleric maybe?) and one a Human (the Fighter maybe?), then the Rogue should be Halfling?
Ok, I must say this has been some amazing advice thus far :D
You'll want a high dex, and Weapon Focus (ray). A ratfolk will give you ability bonuses where you want it, and it's small (another +1 to hit).
I'd go with wizard, since you can specialize as an admixture evoker and change your scorching ray to any one of 4 energy types. You also get a little extra damage with your blasts, which doesn't hurt. Take the feats that allow you to specialize in a spell (scorching ray), and maybe craft a wand of it so you never run out.
That was indeed my first inclination - I have played (and still do) blaster wizards, and geeez they're fun! In this particular case, and since our wizard is already a 'blaster type' I wouldn't want to step on his toes, so my question would be, can I be focused on rays without gimping me too much, since this is supposed to be hardcore mode adventuring?
Of course I intend to retain utility - there are some things that can't simply be overlooked, but as an example, another thing that makes me hesitate is loot division...
Single Target DPS? Hmmmmm. Haven't looked at the forum boards about this so I'm just going to post what I've been theory crafting. Sadly ray builds have seriously fallen off from 3.5. If you can get your dm to let you play a spellwarp sniper(3.5 prc) it would be a huge buff
Best Ray Spells I've found
1. Scortching Ray- falls off because CL cap and rainbow energy resistance prevalence
2. Disintegration- sucks if they make their save or if you missBy lv14 I would have to choose disintegration despite its flaws
Hence we want CL boosts and Save DC boosts like crazy. Hit chance is nice but most things have low touch ac
Rouge Lv1 + Arcane Gun Wizard Lv1 + Arcanist Lv4 + Arcane Trickster Lv8
Exploits
Extra Metamagic, Potent Magic
Feats
Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Maximize Spell, Focused Spell, Empower Spell, Spell Focus/Greater, Spell Specialization, Spell Pen/Greater
Traits(cant remember the names atm)
Metamagic Cost Reduction, CL boost +2 up to HD
Items
+5 Pistol, Backup Pistol, Staff of the Master, Metamagic Rods, Any CL or Dc boosters
That is a lot of information! :D
I will try to build it and see what comes out, though I am not very familiar with the Arcane Gun Wizard (I assume Spellsslinger?) or the Arcanist :D
One thing I read about such builds with AT is that on the one hand it may hurt Attack Bonus, and on the other he gains no new spells per level - are these correct?
Scorching Ray is capped at level 11, but Empower, Maximize and Quicken become easier to use with each new spell level. At character level 14 you are already at spell level 7 which allows a Quickened scorching ray (12d6) and an Empowered Maximized (72 + 12d6 / 2) per round. That's 135 damage in average, not bad in comparison to 200 HP of an average CR 14 creature.
I'd go sorcerer here, for the additional spells per day over wizard. Since you really need to hit, halfling (Small, +2 Dex) should be a good choice. Draconic bloodline (red dragon or something else fire related) adds +1 damage per die, resulting in +30 damage in average. Elemental bloodline (earth) gives you the backup option of Scorching Rays with acid damage - at level 14 some foes are resistant / immune to fire. You can pick up both via the Cross-blooded sorcerer archetype.
Or you simply play a kineticist.
Two questions here:
- Wouldn't an Admixture Wizard be an improvement regarding Sorcerer, since he/she can change the damage type on the Scorching Ray? Would it compensate having less spell slots?
- I have no idea how to build a kineticist, but I like the idea a LOT simply because it would not be a wizard, since there is already one. Can you give me some pointers on how to build it?
If you really want to go with an arcane blaster though, the standard route would be
Wizard (evoker) 13 / Sorcerer crossblooded (draconic/orc) 1
That and make sure to grab the trait to jack up your caster level +2 (max of character level).
In total, you get +3 damage per dice for an evocation of your draconic element, which nearly doubles your damage.
But... your group already has a wizard, and I generally don't find class duplication to be as fun.
Agreed - I'll try digging up info on how to build a Kineticist, though I admit I balk at the idea of the first time I am playing a class is at level 14 :P
I would think an Arcanist Could get some powerful Scorching Rays going.
Potent Magic +2 CL, Spell Specialization +2 CL, Mage's Tattoo +1 CL= +5 CL with very little effort. So by Level 7 you can will be slinging 3 rays for 12D6. At level 8 you can start Applying Empower. Sooner if you take the Magical Lineage Trait.The downside is you need School Savant for Admixture so you do not get Resistance Gibbed.
The other Route was Mentioned of Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/Admixture Wizard X. Most people go Wizard 5 first for Haste/Fireball. But If you go Sorcerer First you can nab the trait that is Sorcerer specific that adds +1 force damage to your spells. This is super useful with Dazing Spell and other rider Effects as Force damage is the least resisted energy type take fully damages Incorporeal Creatures.
Last thing of Note.
Arcane Strike- Rays ARE weapons and EACH ray would get the bonus from Arcane Strike. Early Game it is ugly. +1 for 1 ray...but once you get +3 to 3 Rays it no longer looks that bad of an option. Also it is a good Feat to use with Polymorph Forms like FotD.
So, taking School Savant would eat up three of my exploits - how bad a tradeoff is that in your opinion? Also, I would also get an extra evocation spell per level per day, right?
I would go Sorcerer if your level 14, I just started a blaster sorcerer recently.
Take the Orc Bloodline. At level 13 trade your bonus feat for the havok bloodline mutation.
You know add +2 damage for every dice you roll, you can go crossblooded for another +1 to a specific element if you are ok with penalties.
For me I took the tattoed Archetype instead which gives you a feat that boosts your evoc caster level, gives you a really cool tattoo familiar and the amazing ability of handing out spell like abilities (you can give these to your familiar)
For your single target spell you take battering blast spell and apply that trait that lowers metamagic by 1, apply intense so at level 14 and the +1 caster level your throwing out 3 range touch attack force blasts (caster level 15 with the mage tattoo feat) that do 7d6, combined 21.
You can empower that to do roughly 140 points of damage with your 1st level spell slots and throw out an a standard quicken with your 6th level slots.
Wow... Battering Blast IS a really nice spell :D
My doubt here is the same regarding the sorcerer vs. wizard - it seems that going only with a single damage type will hurt me in the long run, even if it is force :D
Am I exaggerating this?
@Da Wander and Drahliana Moonrunner: I would be inclined to go Arcane Trickster, but check my comments above regarding them. What do you think? Will they be up to par?
@Diachronos: I am looking into Eldritch Archer now ;)
I second the eldritch Archer if you're looking for something that's not a wizard. Lots of fun to play.
Whoops, that should be 5th level spells slots for the intensified, empowered battering blast but at 14th with charisma enhancers and stats you'll have about 8 of those.
Force resistance is almost unheard of, in fact I don't think it exists in pathfinder and was only something an epic creature from 3.5 had.
But it's really not that big a deal, your not putting your eggs in one basket, the only thing that you have invested towards battering blast is a single trait.
You apply your bloodline, havok mutation bonuses to every damaging spell you have and the mage tattoo applies to every evocation spell which is the majority of the blasting spells. You can pick up other spells to apply many of these same things. If anything it's less locked in than the builds that have you take crossblooded as part your bonus damage applies to one element.
You could throw out an intensified, empowered fireball with a 6th level slot for roughly 110-120 damage in a 20 foot radius.
I haven't even got into equipment, without optimizing battering blast you could throw out 3 for 3 rounds a day.
The tattoo ability allows you to bestow one of your spells as tattoos up to 3 times a day at level 15, you can give your familiar from the same archetype 3 battering blasts although I would day you would be better of giving the familiar powerful utility spells like haste, teleport greater, etc. It has lots of utility beyond that.
For a ray specialist, I think I'd build it something like:
Spellslinger Wizard VMC Battle Oracle
Eldritch Knight starting at level 6 (qualifications met by Skill at Arms)
Human, 20-point buy
S7, D16, C12, I18, W12, C10
Trait: Magical Lineage (Disintegrate)
Level 1 feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (Human)
Level 3 Oracle revelation (Skill at Arms)
Level 5 feats: Spell Penetration, Reach Spell (Wizard)
Level 6 feat: Rapid Reload (Eldritch Knight 1)
Level 7 Oracle orison (Mending)
Level 9 feat: Maximize Spell
(At level 10, detour back into wizard for 1 level to stagger back the next two Eldritch Knight feats by 1 level.)
Level 11 feat: Improved Critical (Ray) (Eldritch Knight 5)
Level 13 feat: Quicken Spell
Level 15: Retrain Precise Shot into Spell Perfection (Disintegrate), Oracle Revelation
Level 15 feat: Precise Shot (Eldritch Knight 9)
So the late-game plan is to throw out a maximized disintegrate and a quickened disintegrate each round with no spell level increase that'll rock an 18-20 crit range and a x3 critical multiplier (for the big fights, of course.) Of course, starting at 16, if you're lucky enough to crit with the maximized disintegrate, then you'll get to spell critical another maximized disintegrate. So you'll be looking at 90d6 crits.
Placing priority on Intelligence, you can expect to have a minimum 28 Intelligence (probably higher) by level 16, putting Disintegrate at a minimum DC of 30 (10 + 6th level spell, +9 Int mod, +5 arcane gun.)
Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus increase this by another 4 once you can squeeze them in, and you should be able to snag another +2 or +4 Int from wish as well, bumping the save DC to 35 or 36.
Your to-hit will be a pretty respectable +24 versus touch or so at 16 as well (+13 BAB, +6 Dex, +5 Arcane Gun.)
The BAB drop is negligible with the build I used there because Spellslinger(yes that archetype), touch attack based, and AT free greater invisibility
Arcanist is a hybrid base class from Adv Base class guide that can boost their save dcs by 2 and uses the wizard/sorcerer spell list. It can easily be replaced by an Arcane Bloodline sorcerer
Yes you lose spells added to spellbook when you gain PRC levels. This is easy to make up with craft wondrous item and blessed book
Scortching Ray works poorly at Lv14+ because alot of stuff has rainbow energy resistance 10 at least. Meanwhile disintegrate works on everything if you can boost the saves high enough
A few things to think about for your build because your starting at 14
1. Your starting 1 level below whats needed for spell perfection
2. You are only a level or 2 from getting a PRC capstone
I always thought a ray caster should have Improved critical (ray) for 2d4 Enervation and Vortex Spells from Wind Oracle. It's a complicated build, though.
If Path of War is allowed, you can get Eldritch Knight's Martial Weapon Proficiency from a level of Stalker, which also gives a stackable crit range increase making your rays 18-20/x2 eventually.
Just curious what build did you go with and how well did it work?
If you really want to go with an arcane blaster though, the standard route would be
Wizard (evoker) 13 / Sorcerer crossblooded (draconic/orc) 1
That and make sure to grab the trait to jack up your caster level +2 (max of character level).
In total, you get +3 damage per dice for an evocation of your draconic element, which nearly doubles your damage.
But... your group already has a wizard, and I generally don't find class duplication to be as fun.
There may be a new standard with the Invoker (witch) archetype from Haunted Heroes players guide. The Invoker allows you to get an additional +1 damage per die on your spells, so if you combine that with the Draconic/Orc crossblooded sorcerer with Blood Havoc you can get up to +4 damage per die. Furthermore, the Invoker can be combined with the Winter Witch archetype, since you'll want to focus on a single element anyway. I'm still on the fence on whether or not adding in levels of the Winter Witch prestige class is optimal, but it's an option with the build.
If you really want to go with an arcane blaster though, the standard route would be
Wizard (evoker) 13 / Sorcerer crossblooded (draconic/orc) 1
That and make sure to grab the trait to jack up your caster level +2 (max of character level).
In total, you get +3 damage per dice for an evocation of your draconic element, which nearly doubles your damage.
But... your group already has a wizard, and I generally don't find class duplication to be as fun.
There may be a new standard with the Invoker (witch) archetype from Haunted Heroes players guide. The Invoker allows you to get an additional +1 damage per die on your spells, so if you combine that with the Draconic/Orc crossblooded sorcerer with Blood Havoc you can get up to +4 damage per die. Furthermore, the Invoker can be combined with the Winter Witch archetype, since you'll want to focus on a single element anyway. I'm still on the fence on whether or not adding in levels of the Winter Witch prestige class is optimal, but it's an option with the build.
Blood Havok only works with sorcerer spells although the Invoker Witch looks great for a pure Witch.
This could work but the biggest downside may be the Witch spell list.
Blood Havok only works with sorcerer spells although the Invoker Witch looks great for a pure Witch.
Curses! I was afraid I missed something!
This could work but the biggest downside may be the Witch spell list.
With the winter patron there are enough cold spells to make it worthwhile, IMO. Snowball, Ice Spears, Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, and Polar Midnight immediately come to mind.
Were I to build a character for this purpose, at the level you've specified, it would definitely be built around Disintegrate. Elemental resistances/immunities are a huge pain and being able to bypass them with magical non-elemental damage is huge.
You could reasonably consider the Psychic as an option on that front. Again, given the level, the best option for discipline is Tranquility (immunity to fear is gained at 13, which removes your single biggest weakness as a psychic - other emotion effects can be bypassed with Intellect Fortress). Psychic also offers a number of utility spells that other classes get a level or two later - Greater Object Possession, Mind Blank, etc. are great to have and are obtainable by 14.
Another spell you could focus on is Enervation. No save, only SR. Doesn't work on undead/constructs/etc., so you need to build utility around it. If you've got Magical Lineage, you can quicken it at your build level. Upgrade to Energy Drain at 17/18, depending on choice of caster. Alternately, you could use the Spiritualist as a base for Enervation, which would provide a lot of additional utility, including a bonus meat shield. Once you get to 16, you would have access to Heal, Harm, and Disintegrate. Despair is probably your phantom of choice.