| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So anyone who's played this game into levels beyond 7th-ish knows that death becomes a non-issue quite fast in this game.
I've applied several tweaks to attempt to make dying actually a big deal for my players, but I think I've found something that might be quite fun for everyone involved while achieving my objective: using corruptions as a penalty for being resurrected.
While I haven't read the book so I'm not totally familiar with the rules, I think resurrection (and each further resurrection after that) could be used as catalysts for spawning corruptions, of varying types depending on the manner in which the PC was slain.
For example:
- Monk paralyzed and devoured by ghasts? If the party resurrects him, he comes back with the Ghoul corruption.
- Antipaladin hunted and brought down by a gang of inquisitors? If the party resurrects him, he comes back with the Possessed corruption, haunted by the spirit of those he has harmed.
- Sorcerer dead after being afflicted by a deadly poison? If the party resurrects her, she comes back with the Accursed corruption - the vanilla one for effects that don't fall squarely into other corruptions :P
In any case, you get the basic idea.
Something I'm toying with, mentally, is, for example, what would happen if something already afflicted with say, lycanthropy due to a previous death against a wild animal, is then killed by a demon and resurrected afterwards... should I advance lycanthropy? Add hellbound? Replace lycanthropy by hellbound AND advance hellbound one step beyond what lycanthropy was?
Anyway, what do you guys think?
I actually thought about adding a re-occuring villain in Hell's Rebels with the Hellbound corruption. His contract stipulates that he can come back to life a total of three times, but each time he dies he comes back his corruption progresses.
In a specifically horror themed campaign, or if yiu talk to the player in question and they're cool with it, could be pretty neat. Otherwise, I see no need for it.
Well, in my Tar Baphon campaign I did this. You can maybe scrub some ideas.
Need Will save (DC 15 + Character Lv) or Cleric punished by death's influence. 1d8 and roll on chart 5-3. Subject gets a Fort save at same DC or suffer an effect after rolling 1d6 on chart 5-4.
5-3 chart, Raising another Punishment:
1 –Weakened Immune System: Disease resistance weakened, cursed with -4 penalty to checks vs disease (this can be taken multiple times, stacking). Remove curse can remove, but 10% chance it saps 1 Permanent Con damage.
2 –Plagued by Spirits: Plagued by evil spirits that drain away 1 top spell slot each day (this can be taken multiple times, stacking). Banishment spell can remove these through a 4 hour ritual trapping them in skulls from undead. The total number of skulls required is level of caster to be cured. Curing this exhausts both target and caster from 1 week.
3 –Temporary Loss of Spells: 1d10 weeks, all spells slots are treated as expended each day(Pearls of power do help mitigate this each day). A caster can cure the afflicted with Restoration spell, but targets suffer 1d4 temp Wisdom damage.
4 –Gnarled Hands: Twisted hand unable to hold anything more than a pound. Even simple tasks like opening a door takes a Dexterity check (DC 10 or more) to successfully commit. Spells with somatic components take double normal casting times. He must pray and meditate 1 month, this restores it fort 25 +1% per character level, otherwise it is permanent. This can be expedited if incense worth 1000 gp is burnt: then it takes only days equal to character level. There is a 50+1% character level it is restored, otherwise it is permanent.
5 –Negative level: 1d4 Negative levels upon caster.
6 –Ability Loss: Temporary lose 1d4 Wis and Con damage
7 – Loss of a limb: One of caster’s limbs turns to dust. Roll a Fort save DC (20) or pass out from pain. Roll 1d4 (Right arm, Right Leg, Left Arm, Left Leg), this can be taken multiple times. 1 permanent Con damage if roll is an already missing limb. Each week in meditation/prayer, there is a 25% chance limb is miraculously restored.
8 –Exchange of Souls: One other Humanoid within 10 ft falls lifeless , his soul taken to afterlife. If no other within reach, caster’s soul is vacated. For one week, the caster’s Maximum hp are 10 lower if it it’s soul is not vacated.
chart 5-4. Being Raised curse:
1 -Foul Stench: everyone within 10 feet sickened unless DC 15 Fort save. Successful saving protects you from further needing to make saves each day.
2 –Physical Deformity: Subject gains a twisted, deformed appearance gaining a +4 on intimidate checks, but a -1 permanent Cha damage.
3 –Negative level: 1 negative level (in addition to being raised)
4 –Aura of Death: Animals avoid him, but all others treat him a having a -2 penalty on charisma checks. This effect can take multiple times.
5 –Mental Suffering: Disturbed by experience of death. 1 each day, Will save (DC 15), fail suffer -4 penalty to hit, skills, and saves for that day. Each 5 days in a roll save if failed, DC improves by 1. Reroll if rolled again.
6- Two effects(roll twice)
Well, in my Tar Baphon campaign I did this. You can maybe scrub some ideas.
Need Will save (DC 15 + Character Lv) or Cleric punished by death's influence. 1d8 and roll on chart 5-3. Subject gets a Fort save at same DC or suffer an effect after rolling 1d6 on chart 5-4.
5-3 chart, Raising another Punishment:
1 –Weakened Immune System: Disease resistance weakened, cursed with -4 penalty to checks vs disease (this can be taken multiple times, stacking). Remove curse can remove, but 10% chance it saps 1 Permanent Con damage.
2 –Plagued by Spirits: Plagued by evil spirits that drain away 1 top spell slot each day (this can be taken multiple times, stacking). Banishment spell can remove these through a 4 hour ritual trapping them in skulls from undead. The total number of skulls required is level of caster to be cured. Curing this exhausts both target and caster from 1 week.
3 –Temporary Loss of Spells: 1d10 weeks, all spells slots are treated as expended each day(Pearls of power do help mitigate this each day). A caster can cure the afflicted with Restoration spell, but targets suffer 1d4 temp Wisdom damage.
4 –Gnarled Hands: Twisted hand unable to hold anything more than a pound. Even simple tasks like opening a door takes a Dexterity check (DC 10 or more) to successfully commit. Spells with somatic components take double normal casting times. He must pray and meditate 1 month, this restores it fort 25 +1% per character level, otherwise it is permanent. This can be expedited if incense worth 1000 gp is burnt: then it takes only days equal to character level. There is a 50+1% character level it is restored, otherwise it is permanent.
5 –Negative level: 1d4 Negative levels upon caster.
6 –Ability Loss: Temporary lose 1d4 Wis and Con damage
7 – Loss of a limb: One of caster’s limbs turns to dust. Roll a Fort save DC (20) or pass out from pain. Roll 1d4 (Right arm, Right Leg, Left Arm, Left Leg), this can be taken multiple times. 1 permanent Con damage if roll is an already missing limb. Each week in...
Even if a high-level cleric SHOULD be able to pass the Will save usually, some of those are a hell of a whammy for a couple of bad rolls. I'd be inclined to put more of the penalty on the one being raised. Not that I've run a campaign to that high a level yet, but... I can very easily see this becoming a case of one player just wanting to keep their character, and one player just wanting their character to not be horribly crippled for two months of sessions, and it causing OOC hard feelings.
That's why corruptions appealed to me!
You get a penalty... but also a benefit. But it also toys with danger.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is a great idea, especially if it comes with a possibility of loosening some of the other costs for low level PCs, and it fits right in with the advice about "Death and Bargaining" on page 203!
What is the book that has this in it? It sounds fascinating!
Starbuck_II that is beautifully brutal and I love it :D
Horror Adventures, available next Thursday!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To be fair, the higher level you go, the more likely you are to encounter a situation where an unfortunate crit or flubbed save means death. Dying because you made a heroic sacrifice is cool and meaningful. Dying because you rolled a one against disintegrate just kind of sucks.
Again, in the right campaign where everyone agreed to this before hand, or if it was floated by the player first and they liked the it, this could be an awesome idea. Just kind of dumping it on someone out of the blue just because "death has to be meaningful" is sort of a dick move, and the player would be justified in telling the GM "no".
Remember, Pathfinder is an RPG, the goal is for everyone to have a good time.
I think you are looking at this from the wrong end for two reasons:
- The problem in the situation you are describing is instadeath from a couple of bad rolls. That should be what the DM tries to avoid, not just for players, but for meaningful opponents. Rocket tag combat doesn't benefit anyone.
- Corruptions are not penalties. They are penalties and boons.
SW,
I find it an interesting idea for a non-good campaign, or an alignment irrelevant playstyle. What good soul would accept taking a permanent stain, and the possible to probable eventual damnation as terms of coming back.
If this is not an issue with your games, cool.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you are looking at this from the wrong end for two reasons:
- The problem in the situation you are describing is instadeath from a couple of bad rolls. That should be what the DM tries to avoid, not just for players, but for meaningful opponents. Rocket tag combat doesn't benefit anyone.
- Corruptions are not penalties. They are penalties and boons.
Pathfinder is a dice game. Even if you do go out of your way to avoid instadeath, sometimes the players just have some really terrible luck. I've seen parties snatch defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory more than once.
And while corruptions are mechanically both a boon and a penalty, if the player doesn't want it, it is entirely a penalty for them.
I'm not saying it's automatically a terrible idea. I'd personally probably enjoy it loads. But there are players who would absolutely hate it. I'd rather not force it on them, even if the rest of the group were on board.
SW,
I find it an interesting idea for a non-good campaign, or an alignment irrelevant playstyle. What good soul would accept taking a permanent stain, and the possible to probable eventual damnation as terms of coming back.
If this is not an issue with your games, cool.
I'd imagine the Good Soul who feels that risking their immortal soul is worth coming back to stop the evil that killed them in the first place.
At any rate, I think it's an interesting idea. Since Corruptions provide both boons and banes, it makes resurrection interesting. The one thing I'd do is maybe make it harder for the PCs to become NPCs via the corruption rules.
I find it an interesting idea for a non-good campaign, or an alignment irrelevant playstyle. What good soul would accept taking a permanent stain, and the possible to probable eventual damnation as terms of coming back.
One that has a task to finish, of course! To me, the tastiest thing about it is the pathos.
I've seen parties snatch defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory more than once.
I'm also acquainted with American politics. But also, I accept your POV -- my parties optimize and strategize a lot, and usually have their losses when they slack off or miscalculate rather than when they have a string of bad luck (because even that can be reversed with proper preparation and get out of jail free cards), so death being a thing that matters fits into my games at least.
I find it an interesting idea for a non-good campaign, or an alignment irrelevant playstyle. What good soul would accept taking a permanent stain, and the possible to probable eventual damnation as terms of coming back.One that has a task to finish, of course! To me, the tastiest thing about it is the pathos.
I've seen parties snatch defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory more than once.I'm also acquainted with American politics. But also, I accept your POV -- my parties optimize and strategize a lot, and usually have their losses when they slack off or miscalculate rather than when they have a string of bad luck (because even that can be reversed with proper preparation and get out of jail free cards), so death being a thing that matters fits into my games at least.
Fair enough. Although even fairly optimized can fall prey to bad luck. Sometimes it just depends on what they're facing, and just how bad that luck is.
Really, I'm more concerned with the player being okay with things. That's all.
|
My players several months ago used an NPC contact they made to help Resurrect a fallen character. The npc was one that was a possible future villain for the campaign that the players thought they had rescued (it was all staged) and was the boss for a reoccurring villain they hated.
Well needless to say the resurrected came back with a... tag along as they called it (they thought it was merely a voice in his head). The player was influenced to change their behavior some such as keeping secrets and slowly started losing class abilities for new class abilities, until I told the player his soul was destroyed and to secretly remake his character with a few guidelines (He needed one level of assassin among a few others).
The player didn't mind too much, he seemed rather unhappy with their character and I think this was a nice compromise in making it interesting and more effective. The players know something happened but their characters only have a vague idea he has changed some but most likely from their own bad behavior rubbing off on him. Since he was the only non-evil character it has sorta thrown their "morale compass" to the winds.
I would love to have had this book last year when dealing with all this, but still look forward to reading it next week.
I played Skull & Shackles up through 9th level. Since there are rules in the handbook about losing limbs (that we never used), and we had quite a few deaths in the party, I thought we should have done away with raise dead spells and just have the "dead" person pull through and loose a part.
I played in a 3.5 campaign that used taint and corruption. I was hit harder than the other party members, and by the time we were halfway through it was really starting to suck. It started out kind of interesting but that feeling was lost as the penalties stacked up.
With the right playstyle and if the players are cool with it, it could work.
Although if I was going to apply it I would not make the system set up so that ALL resurrections resulted in corruptions, but rather roll against some DC to see if it comes out okay or you get some sort corruption.
If ALL resurrections result in corruptions, than I would expect active societal pressure against outlawing or making unavailable that sort of magic. It would at the least result in resurrections being very limited in availability, which might fit in with some campaigns and not another.
I already do something similar with third party stuff. Ressurection grants you a third party template that has some drawbacks but gives access to ghost themed feats.
What happens if a character dies in a thematically different way than their firs death? does it advance the first corruption, replace it, or apply both?
That's one of my considerations in the OP. I think it would be neat to make them receive another different corruption, right? Just a big ball of badness?
What happens if a character dies in a thematically different way than their firs death? does it advance the first corruption, replace it, or apply both?That's one of my considerations in the OP. I think it would be neat to make them receive another different corruption, right? Just a big ball of badness?
Eh, I wouldn't be a fan of that personally. You could easily start getting into full ninja-zombie-pirate-robot territory.
I mean, how often do your players die in thematically similar ways?
Quite a lot, I try to stick to themed campaigns.