question about unchained rouge sneak attack and concealed


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IF i got level on unchained rouge and some other class archtype that gain sneak attack ability as well, can i sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment?

for example, my character is UCN rouge1/Snakebite Strike1,how does my sneak attack work against creature with concealment?


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Alas, I know nothing about makeup, but yes I think you put concealer on before rouge, or was that after...

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i mean, some architype will gain the old type of sneak attack ability,and this kind of sneak attack cannot work against creature with concealment.
while the unchain rouge`s sneak cannot work against creature with only total concealment.
so, if i gain both level on these two class,is that the order of my class gaining decides what kind of sneak attack rule i should obey?


I don't really know much about makeup either, so I can't help.

If, absolutely hypothetically, you meant rogue, the class, instead of rouge, the makeup, I would probably say that only sneak attack dice from Unchained Rogue itself, not any other classes, works on concealed targets.


The Snakebite Striker Sneak Attack works as the Rogue ability, not the Unchained Rogue ability. Therefore, RAW is that you only get that one against targets with no concealment, while you get the URogue damage against targets without total concealment.

For a home game it'd be reasonable to just use the URogue rules; as always, ask your GM


Snakebite striker just adds to your base sneak attack, it doesn't modify it and comes with no rules baggage of it's own. It would follow the rules for whichever base sneak attack you have whether rogue or Urogue.

Now what happens if you multiclass urogue with slayer for example which does have the rules baggage, thats less clear. So is whether if you start out as snakebite striker you can choose Urogue sneak attack...

This FAQ could be extrapolated to other class abilities, allowing your Urogue sneak attack to apply to all your sneak attacks. It is tidier than splitting your sneak attack into 2 pools, which would be a bad idea IMO.


After further consideration, I'm happy to take the bit saying the damage stacks as making it all URogue sneak attack. Keeping things simple is definitely good.

The Slayer-style slightly modified repeat of the rules shouldn't make things any more difficult since you still end up with more sneak attack dice.

I wonder if this needs a FAQ


There's no reason to think sneak attack dice need to be tracked separately. Rogues can sneak attack things with concealment; other classes (ordinarily) cannot. A multiclass Rogue doesn't forget how to sneak attack against concealed enemies just because the Rogue also took a level or a few in Slayer or Vivisectionist or whatever else.

Sneak Attack has never been one of those things for which you have multiple pools of dice, each possibly subject to their own restrictions and/or modifications. You just increase the dice rolled when you hit that vital spot.


RAW: Nothing in the Unchained Rogue (that's how you spell makeup) says that you remove the limitation from other sources of SA. You don't get the SA from other classes against creatures with concealment.
RAI: Who gives a crap about RAW? It's clearly intended that SA isn't supposed to be negated by regular concealment anymore.

Scarab Sages

Locally, rogues just always roll the sneak attack with every attack, and the GM/player only adds it if it applies. Part of it is habit, as forgetting to sneak attack when you can sucks. Other part is when the target is disguised or otherwise unknown to actually be immune to the sneak attack, so the GM may want it rolled so you don't suspect the immunity.


Rub-Eta wrote:

RAW: Nothing in the Unchained Rogue (that's how you spell makeup) says that you remove the limitation from other sources of SA. You don't get the SA from other classes against creatures with concealment.

RAI: Who gives a crap about RAW? It's clearly intended that SA isn't supposed to be negated by regular concealment anymore.

Where's the RAW for that?


Unchained Rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.
Slayer wrote:
The slayer must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A slayer cannot use sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Only unchained rogue gets the total concealment provision. And archetypes that give sneak attack say they use the rogue's, not the unchained rogue's, which means it, too, doesn't work on concealed targets.


all sneak attack is the same and is adding, so if you take a level of Urogue you get all your sneak attack when you're making a sneak attack.


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Chess Pwn wrote:
all sneak attack is the same and is adding, so if you take a level of Urogue you get all your sneak attack when you're making a sneak attack.

Nothing says this at all, unless you can point to errata or a FAQ indicating as such.

You add all your sneak attack dice into any attack that they all are valid for, but the rules say absolutely nothing about how now all sneak attacks work through concealment, or that having a single level in Unchained Rogue lets you sneak attack through concealment.

Target has no concealment - Your full sneak attack, from rogue, slayer, brawler with Snakebite Striker archetype, etc all pool together.
Target has basic, but not total, concealment - Your sneak attack dice from Unchained Rogue applies, but no others do.
Target has total concealment - None of your sneak attack applies.


If the zealot gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.

If he already has sneak attack from another class, the extra damage from the classes that grant sneak attack stack for the purpose of determining the sneak attack's extra damage dice

If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.

If the nature fang gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.


Yes. You're absolutely right. All of those stack.

However, that doesn't allow you to apply sneak attack when you otherwise couldn't.

Saying that, because U.Rogue sneak attack stacks with other classes' sneak attack, that whenever you can apply the first you're automatically allowed to apply the rest, is like saying that since Deflection bonuses to AC and Dodge bonuses to AC stack, you get to apply your Dodge AC when flat-footed.


damage stacking means your sneak attack is doing 2d6 instead of 2 1d6s. So when you sneak attack you do all your sneak attack damage, as it is the only sneak attack damage you have. The URogue can sneak attack against concealment, thus when it goes to sneak attack someone in concealment they'd do their sneak attack damage, which is all their sneak attack damage.

Liberty's Edge

Chess Pwn is right. The damage stack. Then when you attack you use your abilities, and those include the ability to deal sneak attack to a target with conceal but not full concealment.


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Diego Rossi wrote:
Chess Pwn is right. The damage stack. Then when you attack you use your abilities, and those include the ability to deal sneak attack to a target with conceal but not full concealment.

Yup. Like I said, no reason to think this is one of those things you have to track separately. URogue basically just gets Shadow Strike for free, it works the same whether multiclassed or not.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Locally, rogues just always roll the sneak attack with every attack, and the GM/player only adds it if it applies. Part of it is habit, as forgetting to sneak attack when you can sucks. Other part is when the target is disguised or otherwise unknown to actually be immune to the sneak attack, so the GM may want it rolled so you don't suspect the immunity.

I think if I was a backstabby guy, I would notice if the spot I hit was like, an ooze or an elemental

Liberty's Edge

CWheezy wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Locally, rogues just always roll the sneak attack with every attack, and the GM/player only adds it if it applies. Part of it is habit, as forgetting to sneak attack when you can sucks. Other part is when the target is disguised or otherwise unknown to actually be immune to the sneak attack, so the GM may want it rolled so you don't suspect the immunity.
I think if I was a backstabby guy, I would notice if the spot I hit was like, an ooze or an elemental

Some alchemist have a chance to avoid precision damage (and I think a few archetypes of other classes), there are spells and magic items for that, some strange creature (there is a specie of intelligent oozes that disguise themselves ar humans) and so on.

It isn't always so clear cut.

Probably you would notice that the attack wasn't as successful as you thought, but knowing way is another matter.

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