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also as a horror fan, a Tian Xia horror-themed campaign would be pretty awesome. It's not like the Paizo folks don't have a lot of inspirations to pull from, and it would be a pretty novel idea.
Horror game in Shensen, the Land of Spiders would be pretty great.
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While we're at it, if a Tian-Xia AP was upcoming, it would be the perfect excuse to release an Expanded(*) Unchained Monk Player Companion.
This MUST include a Sumo Wrestler archetype.
You mean more awesome stuff like in the weapon masters handbook, only more specifically for monks and unarmed and unarmored combat, but still incorporating especially eastern weapons? Yes!
That could also be part of a larger Eastern Fighting Techniques book^^A Tian Xia magic book and a Tian Xia kineticist book would also be really, really good.
Besides more adventures in Tian Xia of course.
Now that you mention it, it could be that a way to "stealth" this in would be a Martial Arts Handbook (or maybe even a Ki Tactics Handbook) that has a big focus on martial arts, which just happen to have more representation among Eastern tradition, thereby stimulating people's interest in the regions of origin. And add some teasers of ties to stories that have Eastern roots but that have become popular on this side of the Pacific, including a considerable dose of martial arts (but also other stuff). Also include some teasers that are sleepers in the West right now but that have the potential to explode in popularity (as has happened before).
Some things that could be in here:
More combat styles, both armed and unarmed.
More Eastern weapons, in particular the Yumi (Japanese bows -- these even came in 2 different lengths).
Monsters -- some of the less obvious ones, like a type of Naga suited for the story of Madame White Snake. Also should introduce a really horrific Ki-leeching monster (Aberration or Qlippoth).
Unchained Monk archetypes, including conversions of many Classic Monk archetypes, plus new ones, such as the above-mentioned Sumo Wrestler.
Related to the above, but deserving separate mention: a non-Lawful Unchained Monk archetype that doesn't trade out Ki -- got to have a Kung Fu Panda in here.
Archetypes of non-Monk classes that gain some Ki powers, like a Ki Rager (Barbarian and/or Bloodrager(*) archetype purposely made to seem in-your-face9 blasphemous to the staid Monastic tradition), a Ki Bard, a Ki Warpriest, a Ki-using Unarmed Ki-using Magus archetype that isn't terrible, a Ki Arcanist, a Ki Sorcerer(***), a Ki Shaman, a Ki Gunslinger(**), a Ki Antipaladin (for Kung Fu Panda to go up against)(****), a Ki Druid, and some Ki Occult classes.
(*)Actually, Ki powers would be not a bad thing to trade out Bloodrager spellcasting for.
(**)Gunpowder comes from 9th Century China, and Gunpowder weapons date back to 12th Century China, so thematically, this is thematically fitting -- this also would be a decent lead-in for a Gun Alchemist archetype, although that wouldn't be a Ki user, but rather a Stimpack user -- hey, it's certainly caught on in Korea . . . .
(***)Also serves as a Sorcerer-Arcanist hybrid that is more on the sorcerer side of the blend, compared to the Blood Arcanist -- Exploiter Wizard is the equivalent on the Wizard side.
(****)Already have a Ki Paladin, although that one is Irori-specific.
Ninja archetypes (including a Shadowdancer archetype).
Samurai archetypes (including a Ki user).
Wood Element for Kineticsts (available to Ki and non-Ki Kineticists).
A way to make Overwhelming Soul Kineticist not be Underwhelming (maybe by use of Ki as noted above).
Oni/Kami Summoner (or maybe Spiritualist -- although in the latter case, maybe Onmyoji is supposed to have that covered).
Jade/Terra Cotta Golem Master Wizard archetype.
A Tian Xia bestiary would be cool as well.
Wow there´s tons of awesome ideas!
Horrorgame in Shensen is pretty neat i agree. It also connects to the underground, so might involve Drow sidelines. And with all the Horrorstuff and books lately, a good opportunity to do something else than the average Ustalav vampire/werewolf/undead sparkle twinkle twilight story^^
@UnArcane Election: A bunch of interesting ideas!
I wouldn´t connect everything to ki though. Especially not a Ki Rager^^ That seems contradictive somehow. A shadowdancer ninja seems pretty cool and thematically fitting though.
And i´m totally on board with the (Madame) White Snake! That´s also a very awesome eastern fantasy movie and i could even see that as a monstrous player race!
I think the chinese daoist tradition offers many possibilities for a Tian Xia inspired alchemist. There´s plenty of external (extracts) and internal (perhaps ki?) alchemy going on. Could be an alchemist focussed on longevity and self-perfection, perhaps schooled in martial arts, maybe even unarmed, links to Irori (?), wisdom based.
More about Hao Jin and her Tapestry is also a very, very good idea!
I would love more classes to use ki both from archetypes and feats.
Some classes and creatures that are based/focused on the Chinese zodiac.
One thing i would really wish for is either another deity with shuriken as favored weapon (preferably a good one) or Yaezhing getting the air portfolio. That would be awesome.
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Iron Fang is a missed opportunity.
It really should have been set in Lignshen.
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I don't think so.
{. . .}
@UnArcane Election: A bunch of interesting ideas!
I wouldn´t connect everything to ki though. Especially not a Ki Rager^^ That seems contradictive somehow. A shadowdancer ninja seems pretty cool and thematically fitting though.
And i´m totally on board with the (Madame) White Snake! That´s also a very awesome eastern fantasy movie and i could even see that as a monstrous player race!
{. . .}
Wasn't meaning to connect everything to Ki -- I just got carried away.
But the Ki Rager idea is precisely because it seems so self-contradictory -- an in-your-face affront to the scholars who claim that Ki can only be mastered through stringent self-discipline . . . perhaps even hunted for this affront.
Well i wouldn´t say that it gets watered down, but it might become a bit ordinary.
So a Ki rager would be like a sorcerer to a wizard?
That´s actually a very interesting idea! I don´t know if the rager or barbarian thing is necessary there, especially since that gives the class 2 resources that need to be managed and rely on 2 different stats and then you still need to be able to fight, so that would probably be more MAD than a monk is already normaly.
But it does have some merit. And the unchained mechanics would work a lot better for something like that i think. The class could then either have to be neutral or chaotic.
That´s something that´s missing anyway, neutral and chaotic ki stuff.
And it would open a lot of interesting roleplay opportunities i think.
Iron Fang is a missed opportunity.
It really should have been set in Lignshen.
Although i dont really know, i think so too, a little bit.
Tian Xia would have provided a good background with a hobgoblin nation.Who knows, maybe they even came from there.
Well doesn´t mean the AP is bad, but the Nirmathas region doesn´t really interest me. Don´t think it has that much to offer different from other Inner Sea regions, it´s even a bit similar to Kingmaker and the River Kingdoms i daresay. Giantslayer wasn´t too far off either.
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No offense, but if there's a Tian Xia adventure path, having it be about a war with Hobgoblins seems like a colossal waste of the potential that is Tian Xia.
I take that as a strong indicator that there should actually be several Tian Xia APs and modules!
A Lingshen-Kaoling-Jinin war with intrigue could be a very thrilling adventure in my eyes.
But of course you are also right, Tian Xia offers a lot more than that^^
There could be a "What happened to Hao Jin?" visit different parts of Tian Xia with different problems and search for her and her legacy while meeting encroaching horror AP.
That´s a great chance actually. Could involve:
-visiting all or most of the places
-Hao Jin
-Aspis Consortium and other Tian Xia native organizations (Lantern Lodge!)
-Chases, riddles, lots of different themes (but please no book filling dungeon)
-Horror and Intrigue themes
-Dragons!
I highly doubt we'll get several. :-)
And I'd prefer the one we do get has more nuance then just War!!! with Hobgoblins.
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We will be lucky to ever get a full AP take place in Tian Xia, if we do I do not want to waste it something that we have already seen like hobgoblins, drow, orcs, gnolls, etc. I want it dome right with a 90%+ focus on Asian style creatures.
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I highly doubt we'll get several. :-)
And I'd prefer the one we do get has more nuance then just War!!! with Hobgoblins.
Well at least in my mind it would be about a love story between a hobgoblin and an elf. Geisha and samurai^^ I´m a romantic there.
That could make for a lot of intrigue at courts in both nations.There´s probably plenty of opportunity to include other things there as well.
On the long run, you´re probably right though. Best make it distinguishable. Or "play it safe" and include things? Don´t know.
Amanandar could be a good entry.
I highly doubt we'll get several. :-)
And I'd prefer the one we do get has more nuance then just War!!! with Hobgoblins.
Perhaps, but moving to the "exotic" setting of Lingshen would have made the story vastly more interesting then it is now. (... and provided an opportunity to further develop that part of Golarion.)
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I highly doubt we'll get several. :-)
And I'd prefer the one we do get has more nuance then just War!!! with Hobgoblins.
Hey, optimism is good!
Anyway, I agree that Ironfang Invasion set in Lingshen wouldn't make sense really as how it is described.
I mean, its in the name, its an invasion. I doubt Hobgoblins would invade their own nation, so if Hobgoblin invasion AP would set in Tian Xia, it should be some type of "Unite nations threatened by Lingshen together!" type of deal probably? Well anyway, as Ironfang Invasion is described, doesn't sound it'd be interesting if it was in Lingshen
1. The hobgoblins already invaded a nation there, Kaoling, which is now their nation.
2. They would of course invade another nation, like Lingshen or Jinin.
Jinin probably has some elfgates to Sovyrian, so that could have become even more interesting would those have fallen into their hands, threatening invasion even to the old elven refuge on Castrovel!
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If you want to support a Tian Xia AP or module or something, the best way is to buy the few products that have been made about it.
AP #54 "Jade Regent part 6 - The empty Throne" has about 10 copies left in stock, so: BUY IT!
AP #53 "Jade Regent part 5 - Tide of Honor" had under 500 left in november 2015.
The excellent "Pathfinder Module: The Ruby Phoenix Tournament" (imo the best Tian Xia adventure so far) had less than 1000 left 8 months ago, as had the okay "Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer".
The Dragon Empires Gazetteer Campaign Setting still had over 1000 copies in stock.
That said APs #49, #50 and #52 are sold out.
I've always wondered why there are such discrepancies in inventory left for all 6 issues of an AP? Wouldn't you usually buy all 6? Or at least just the first one and not the rest if you didn't like it?
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Well at least in my mind it would be about a love story between a hobgoblin and an elf. Geisha and samurai^^ I´m a romantic there.
Expectation management: it's unlikely that we'll see this angle as part of such an AP. Not because it's inappropriate or uninteresting, but because it takes the focus off of the PCs. For example, Jade Regent doesn't assume that Ameiko has her own love interest set up - it leaves that position open for a player character.
A hobgoblin love interest could be doable, with one of the PCs in the "elf samurai" role, but it would likely be an optional element at best, and the story wouldn't be written with the expectation of it happening. (It could appear as a plot seed, though.) Exotic love interests are very common in the APs, after all - Greta, Arueshalae, and Tetisurah come to mind.
This is one of those plot elements that's perfectly suited for a home-written campaign, where one (or both) of the couple can be PCs, and the story can be tailored to them. It'd be a very interesting campaign, to be sure. ^_^
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I've always wondered why there are such discrepancies in inventory left for all 6 issues of an AP? Wouldn't you usually buy all 6? Or at least just the first one and not the rest if you didn't like it?
Off the top of my head... perhaps you're buying them one-by-one as your campaign progresses, only to have the group fall apart in Book 4.
In addition, the print runs are different for each book, with more of Book 1 than Book 2, and so on.
There could be any number of reasons. ^_^
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I know Kali, i´m just spitballing^^
With elements from Ultimate Intrigue it gets even more interesting though. I could see players in the hobgoblin geisha role or samurai role as well though.
Also, one of the two could be a "questgiver", where they players help them out, defend them, carry messages, etc.
1. The hobgoblins already invaded a nation there, Kaoling, which is now their nation.
2. They would of course invade another nation, like Lingshen or Jinin.
Jinin probably has some elfgates to Sovyrian, so that could have become even more interesting would those have fallen into their hands, threatening invasion even to the old elven refuge on Castrovel!
Military Expansionism is almost a moral imperative for Hobgoblins.
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Perhaps, but moving to the "exotic" setting of Lingshen would have made the story vastly more interesting then it is now. (... and provided an opportunity to further develop that part of Golarion.)I highly doubt we'll get several. :-)
And I'd prefer the one we do get has more nuance then just War!!! with Hobgoblins.
I haven't seen much development of Nirmathis or Multhune yet, and I find the story interesting set there. It's been awhile since I got to use my Alan Rickman as the sheriff of Nottingham impression. :-)
If you can get ki with everything, doesn't that kinda make it less special and watered down?
Well i wouldn´t say that it gets watered down, but it might become a bit ordinary.
Not any more than happens with all those Occult archetypes of existing classes -- even if you made a Ki archetype for EVERY existing class (which I didn't list above), this would be a tiny minority of the total number of archetypes. Granted, some classes have only a few archetypes (the record being no archetypes for Ninja, but that already has Ki anyway), while others have a ton of archetypes (Bard, Fighter, etc.).
So a Ki rager would be like a sorcerer to a wizard?
That´s actually a very interesting idea! I don´t know if the rager or barbarian thing is necessary there, especially since that gives the class 2 resources that need to be managed and rely on 2 different stats and then you still need to be able to fight, so that would probably be more MAD than a monk is already normaly.
But it does have some merit. And the unchained mechanics would work a lot better for something like that i think. The class could then either have to be neutral or chaotic.
That´s something that´s missing anyway, neutral and chaotic ki stuff.
And it would open a lot of interesting roleplay opportunities i think
I wouldn't require Ki Ragers to be non-Lawful (but then, I wouldn't require Barbarians to be non-Lawful either(*)), but Lawful ones would be very few and far in between.
(*)Related to this, although regionally specific away from Tian Xia, I have been toying with the idea of a Hellknight Stormtrooper Barbarian archetype, which HAS to be Lawful (ones that quit being Lawful turn back into normal Barbarians, usually with whatever archetype they had before getting brainwashed by the Hellknights). But first, let's see what the soon-to-be-released Path of the Hellknight has in it.
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also as a horror fan, a Tian Xia horror-themed campaign would be pretty awesome. It's not like the Paizo folks don't have a lot of inspirations to pull from, and it would be a pretty novel idea.Horror game in Shensen, the Land of Spiders would be pretty great.
Eeew... there's SPIDERS IN ME? That IS horrifying!
Ninjas have the frozen shadow archetype now, was in a new book lately.
Good point on the archetypes though, although i see those more as a way to fit in older classes into an occult game.
Would be cool if every class had one or more Tian Xia specific archetypes. Bard already have 2, geisha and lotus geisha.
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The "Jade Regent Map Folio" with 3 beautiful maps of Tian Xia, the Crown of the World and Kasai is now available for only $3!
The Jade Regent Cards (52 great asian flavored items) cost $4!
"The Ruby Phoenix Tournament" Module (Think the Grand Tournament from Dragonball) is only $5!
Asian weeks at Paizo. ;-)
Eeew... there's SPIDERS IN ME? That IS horrifying!also as a horror fan, a Tian Xia horror-themed campaign would be pretty awesome. It's not like the Paizo folks don't have a lot of inspirations to pull from, and it would be a pretty novel idea.Horror game in Shensen, the Land of Spiders would be pretty great.
I already wondered if that was a double naming, but probably wrote it wrong myself then^^
Creative Director
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Eeew... there's SPIDERS IN ME? That IS horrifying!also as a horror fan, a Tian Xia horror-themed campaign would be pretty awesome. It's not like the Paizo folks don't have a lot of inspirations to pull from, and it would be a pretty novel idea.Horror game in Shensen, the Land of Spiders would be pretty great.I already wondered if that was a double naming, but probably wrote it wrong myself then^^
The land folks are thinking of is similar, but is in fact Shenmen. And yes, the name kinda weirds me out too, but it sounds good and I decided not to put up too much of a fight over it poaching most of the letters from my favorite character's name.
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For those curious, the nation you're thinking of is Shenmen. ^_^
EDIT: Ninja'ed by the boss. :D
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Despite actually knowing the name is Shenmen, i still repeated the wrong one^^
Perhaps i should somehow connect Shensen to spiders in my game though :D
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Despite actually knowing the name is Shenmen, i still repeated the wrong one^^
Perhaps i should somehow connect Shensen to spiders in my game though :D
As long as it's not gorillas.
As long as it's not gorillas.Despite actually knowing the name is Shenmen, i still repeated the wrong one^^
Perhaps i should somehow connect Shensen to spiders in my game though :D
Nothing is impossible...especially not in the opera!
Nothing is impossible...especially not in the opera!As long as it's not gorillas.Despite actually knowing the name is Shenmen, i still repeated the wrong one^^
Perhaps i should somehow connect Shensen to spiders in my game though :D
Well... gorillas SHOULD be impossible. World would be a better place without them.
Gorilla samurai vs spider ninjas;)
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1. The hobgoblins already invaded a nation there, Kaoling, which is now their nation.
2. They would of course invade another nation, like Lingshen or Jinin.
Jinin probably has some elfgates to Sovyrian, so that could have become even more interesting would those have fallen into their hands, threatening invasion even to the old elven refuge on Castrovel!
Not to mention those dread cousins from down below
Evil is all good and well, but Lawful is sooo boring
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Really what I think would help folks appreciate Tian Xia would be a low level 1-5 module in a similar vein as the Dragons Demand. That was so good for both home and Con play. It had a lot of flavor and helped get folks started in the game.
I reckon if we had a module like that for Tian Xia it would open up the possibility of Asian themed characters. It'd give the Con players of PFS a good starting point for their characters and offer good home play as side games within larger campaigns or a nice mini campaign for folks to get going with.
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It is certainly not a bad sign that the Creative Director popped into this thread.
It's also not a telling sign, but hey! At least you know that James Jacobs' all-seeing eye has focused upon this thread for even the briefest of moments. ;-)
It´s appreciated^^
Now let´s get this thread to 1000+ interesting posts and buy all that Tian Xia stuff like Jade Regent, Dragon Empires Primer and Gazetteer as well as Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
J-Bones idea has some merit there. Ruby Phoenix Tournament is awesome, but level 11 is level 11 and lower levels often provide a better entry in my experience.
Everybody is welcome to chat and share ideas about Tian Xia!