Meh, Stark is such a damaged character with all the crazy/evil stuff he's done going back to Civil War and beyond, I really could care less about what they do with him now.
And I like Hal Jordan...
*gives FHDM an atomic wedgie*
sorry, Im wearing anti bologna underwear.
And you think stark is damaged? Hal went full dictator not that long ago.
I hate to be getting this thread off track, but have to agree that the GL/Hal Jordan isn't as bland as all that - especially in recent years when they have done a good job of trying to explain how he can be "fearless." It was something the Silver Age writers thought was no big notion, but DC writers have delved into the psychology more. I could do without the whole "color" thing (it's an interesting notion that's kind of run it's course to me), but YMMV.
(Also side note, I think using Nathan Fillon has the voice of Hal in several of the animated versions has helped as well. I loved John Stewart in the animated version, but it was totally at odds with the more introspective version of him in the comics.)
The Hal/Kyle might make a good example to look at when it comes to the new Iron Man/Woman thing. As Phantom points out, DC took the character and essentially destroyed what the character was about (and around the same time, Green Arrow as well) to make room for what they thought would be a "better?" versions of them. In hindsight, it came off as let's make a Gen-X hipster version of the character. Not to mention they later shoe-horned the Mexican heritage thing; and let's not get the "refrigerator" mess going. Despite that, there was some great writing and ideas that helped to reset the GL Corps idea. I liked where they went with Kyle at times; but often it was a mess that just came off as a fad. It didn't help that in the meantime, guys like Johns and Robinson were doing a better job making the "old" heroes relevant (such as Hal as Parallax).
In Marvel's backyard, this is reminiscent of Monica Rambeau/Captain Marvel as well. While Roger Stern/John Romita/John Buscema were doing her storyline in Avengers, she was coming off as a well done character. But after that, it seemed like later writers just didn't care for the character. Macchio or Simonson was the one who I think just de-powered her just to get her off the series (and make room for Thor). It's took probably a decade before they finally gave her the chance to develop from something other than a D-list character again.
The point being, if you are going to restart Iron Man, it would help to not feel like this is some kind of "special project" that alienates your Iron Man readers; gets inconsistent writing/artist support; and works in competition against your established heroes. Right now, this idea as presented doesn't detract from similar problems developing in my mind.
I hate to be getting this thread off track, but have to agree that the GL/Hal Jordan isn't as bland as all that - especially in recent years when they have done a good job of trying to explain how he can be "fearless." It was something the Silver Age writers thought was no big notion, but DC writers have delved into the psychology more. I could do without the whole "color" thing (it's an interesting notion that's kind of run it's course to me), but YMMV.
(Also side note, I think using Nathan Fillon has the voice of Hal in several of the animated versions has helped as well. I loved John Stewart in the animated version, but it was totally at odds with the more introspective version of him in the comics.)
The Hal/Kyle might make a good example to look at when it comes to the new Iron Man/Woman thing. As Phantom points out, DC took the character and essentially destroyed what the character was about (and around the same time, Green Arrow as well) to make room for what they thought would be a "better?" versions of them. In hindsight, it came off as let's make a Gen-X hipster version of the character. Not to mention they later shoe-horned the Mexican heritage thing; and let's not get the "refrigerator" mess going. Despite that, there was some great writing and ideas that helped to reset the GL Corps idea. I liked where they went with Kyle at times; but often it was a mess that just came off as a fad. It didn't help that in the meantime, guys like Johns and Robinson were doing a better job making the "old" heroes relevant (such as Hal as Parallax).
In Marvel's backyard, this is reminiscent of Monica Rambeau/Captain Marvel as well. While Roger Stern/John Romita/John Buscema were doing her storyline in Avengers, she was coming off as a well done character. But after that, it seemed like later writers just didn't care for the character. Macchio or Simonson was the one who I think just de-powered her just to get her off the series (and make room for Thor). It's took probably a decade before they finally gave...
That's a common thing with new characters - reworks of other heroes or not. The creator/first writing team has a cool vision for the character, uses them well, tells a cool story arc or two and then moves on, as comic creators do.
Totally understand that. My point is that a new Iron Woman character faces these same issues, no matter the gender or ethnicity. And any questions of whether Marvel is going for a gimmick or an honest attempt at diversity is impacted by those same decisions and actions.
Fort Save: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8 hurls
Are you telling me that you don't like Nathan Fillon; or the notion that Hal Jordan might be improved as a character by good voice acting?
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Fort Save: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8 hurlsAre you telling me that you don't like Nathan Fillon; or the notion that Hal Jordan might be improved as a character by good voice acting?
He was in firefly which is Whedon which makes everything he is involved in bad even if it's only slightly. Pretty sure freehold would cut off his hand if Whedon accidentally touched it.
Can't wait for the new Iron Woman/Spiderman team up where they compete to see which one is most angst ridden.
A 15 year old girl(her colour makes no difference to me)...seriously?
I'm sure she'll be bringing a great deal of gravitas and introspection to every decision...not.
He was in firefly which is Whedon which makes everything he is involved in bad even if it's only slightly. Pretty sure freehold would cut off his hand if Whedon accidentally touched it.Fort Save: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8 hurlsAre you telling me that you don't like Nathan Fillon; or the notion that Hal Jordan might be improved as a character by good voice acting?
I now have a new idea for a Saw movie...
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Granted, I'm no Green Lantern expert, but from what little I DO know "has his personality/background constantly changed and reversed in some drastic hope to make them interesting" sounds just likeParralaxHal.
[tangent] As an older fan, who remembers the characters Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were back in the 70's and 80's, that's as much a pet peeve for me as their returning to sideline Wally West / John Stewart / Kyle Rayner, etc., that they are so *drastically* different now than they were back in the day. Both were established respected heroes, and then returned as an irresponsible frat-boy and a flighty joke character mocked by his Justice League teammates for his naivette.
Why bring them back to just crap on them both so disrespectfully? Ugh. [/tangent]
As for this new 'Iron Woman,' I'm cautiously intrigued.
I'm not thrilled with the recent death of Rhodey, and replacing him with 'another black Iron Man' smacks of tokenism, to me, but the character might turn out to be one of those 'legacy' characters that I end up liking more than the original, like the She-Hulk or X-23 or Jane Foster-Thor, or one of those 'bad ideas' that I knee jerk against and then come around and end up loving the execution of, like the whole 'let's bring Bucky back!' notion, which seemed like utter nonsense, and then turned into a pretty cool Winter Soldier storyline and character.
Another point of wariness is that it's Bendis, whom I'm not terribly fond of, as a writer.
About time we had a *male* legacy of a female hero, 'though, whether it be Black Canary or Wonder Woman or Monica Rambeau or Wasp or whatever. (A male legacy of a character that's already a female legacy of a male character, like Carol Danvers or Zatanna, would just go full on recursive and threaten the nerd-time continuum...) A young man inspired to heroism by a powerful *woman?* Long. Past. Due.
Right now I'd much rather be reading about Miles problems than some one they made up just to fit into a suit.
Tony Stark's successor SHOULD be James Rhodes. End of Story.
ninja'd above for rhodey, but shut ups or not, dick has been batman on several occasions.I've always been confused as to why heroes need to be "replaced". Why couldn't she be her own character, as others said?
Batman had Robin. Robin didn't become Batman (shut up), he became Nightwing.
She seems like an interesting character, but why is she "Iron Woman" instead of a progression of Iron Man? Her own name, own theme somewhat, but with Stark as the mentor, and still Iron man himself.
This is sort of like if Rhodey came along and instead of War Machine he was "Black Iron Man".
One of my favorite recent comic outings was Two Face attempting to prove that Grayson was not the original Batman.
"He's smiling! When does Batman ever smile?"
I will not begrudge them this, because it was the concept of legacy that got me into DC Comics. As long as they do use this well and establish that, I think her name is Riri(?) can indeed inherit Stark's legacy as opposed to making her a throw away character that will vanish once Tony is back or sacrifice her for a "shocking" story event.
I don't like existing characters being killed off to make room for new ones though, which is essentially what just happened with Warmachine.
I'm probably not going to read it though, mainly cause right now DC is knocking out of the park with Rebirth and I only have so much money to spend on comics, especially with DC doing some twice a month books.
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Marvel is replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man - again. This time it is a woman.
New Iron Man
The cover art of the character reminds me a lot of Misty Knight. Very 70s, but with a bit more modern, mid-riff baring mode of dress.
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From what I'm reading, the character is in college. It'll be interesting to see if they keep her in that setting primarily, or concentrate more on off-campus crime fighting. Maybe a mixture of both? I mean, I know colleges have their share of problems, but how many would be from attacks by super villains?
The cover art of the character reminds me a lot of Misty Knight. Very 70s, but with a bit more modern, mid-riff baring mode of dress.
On that cover, Riri reminds me a bit of jazz bassist and singer Esperanza Spalding. I wonder who the artist Stefano Caselli used as a photo reference?
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You know why I think people like Rhodes better then RiRi? She was brought in for the sole purpose to take over. She was introduced as smarter and better then the established character... a HUGE pet peeve of mine. But she's a brand new character that is getting handed the reins of an established character.
Rhodes on the other hand? He was WELL established as a background character, pilot, friend of tony before he took the armor. His first appearance was Iron Man #118. His first appearance AS Iron Man was #170.
There's a build up there that feels more organic then 'Here's someone you've never heard of, who's a kid, OH and she's already smarter then Tony.
Doesn't feel 'real'... Feels like a gimmick.
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Also, Rhodes has a gatling gun mounted on his shoulder! That always wins you some popularity!
Also, Rhodes has a gatling gun mounted on his shoulder! That always wins you some popularity!
TRUTH!
If Riri was introduced as a new research engineer and slowly worked her way up to being supergenius and was the logical pick when Tony retired, that's decent storytelling.
Any indication that he hands over the most sophisticated weapon system invented to someone he barely knows... because... plot?? That's problematic.
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You know why I think people like Rhodes better then RiRi? She was brought in for the sole purpose to take over. She was introduced as smarter and better then the established character... a HUGE pet peeve of mine. But she's a brand new character that is getting handed the reins of an established character.
Rhodes on the other hand? He was WELL established as a background character, pilot, friend of tony before he took the armor. His first appearance was Iron Man #118. His first appearance AS Iron Man was #170.
There's a build up there that feels more organic then 'Here's someone you've never heard of, who's a kid, OH and she's already smarter then Tony.
Doesn't feel 'real'... Feels like a gimmick.
Kind of like Cap-is-an-agent-of-Hydra level of gimmick.
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The cover art of the character reminds me a lot of Misty Knight. Very 70s, but with a bit more modern, mid-riff baring mode of dress.On that cover, Riri reminds me a bit of jazz bassist and singer Esperanza Spalding. I wonder who the artist Stefano Caselli used as a photo reference?
Or like Pam Grier in Foxy Brown.
Kind of like Cap-is-an-agent-of-Hydra level of gimmick.You know why I think people like Rhodes better then RiRi? She was brought in for the sole purpose to take over. She was introduced as smarter and better then the established character... a HUGE pet peeve of mine. But she's a brand new character that is getting handed the reins of an established character.
Rhodes on the other hand? He was WELL established as a background character, pilot, friend of tony before he took the armor. His first appearance was Iron Man #118. His first appearance AS Iron Man was #170.
There's a build up there that feels more organic then 'Here's someone you've never heard of, who's a kid, OH and she's already smarter then Tony.
Doesn't feel 'real'... Feels like a gimmick.
Ugh... I wouldn't go that far... But, yeah.
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My only real problem with this story is the same I have with every story where the long-established hero gets replaced. Eventually, they bring back the original. Sometimes it's fairly quick. Other times it's after a good many years of success with the replacement (I'm looking at you Barry and Hal). It's nearly always going to happen. Damn near as inevitable as the tides.
I just wish it'd stick.
You know why I think people like Rhodes better then RiRi? She was brought in for the sole purpose to take over. She was introduced as smarter and better then the established character... a HUGE pet peeve of mine. But she's a brand new character that is getting handed the reins of an established character.
Rhodes on the other hand? He was WELL established as a background character, pilot, friend of tony before he took the armor. His first appearance was Iron Man #118. His first appearance AS Iron Man was #170.
There's a build up there that feels more organic then 'Here's someone you've never heard of, who's a kid, OH and she's already smarter then Tony.
Doesn't feel 'real'... Feels like a gimmick.
Exactly. If we needed a smarter Iron Man, we would have gotten Reed Richards. :p
My only real problem with this story is the same I have with every story where the long-established hero gets replaced. Eventually, they bring back the original. Sometimes it's fairly quick. Other times it's after a good many years of success with the replacement (I'm looking at you Barry and Hal). It's nearly always going to happen. Damn near as inevitable as the tides.
I just wish it'd stick.
Yep. I said that. They killed Tony Stark before.
It would be VERY interesting if the child prodigy with the 'really messed up life background' ended up being *much more mature* than Tony Stark.
Stark's the kind of guy that:
Creates knock-offs of his 'tech to sell to the U.S. government.
THEN
Goes on a crusade to destroy all his 'tech 'cause reasons.
So if RiRi (is that the name?) turns out to be sober, balanced, practical (I can't fix ALL the problems, but I'll do what I can) as well as capable of taking say, one of the earlier Iron Man suits that had issues (Stealth model comes to mind) and makes it go on a far greater level than Tony Stark was ever capable of doing?
ESPECIALLY with Rhodey gone, get someone in the suit that *isn't* Tony Stark or related to Tony Stark. Someone *new*. See what they do. And be there and ready to pick up the pieces if it all falls apart...
EDIT: Would like to point out that I'm a fan of Tony Stark/Iron Man when he isn't caricatured to the afterlife and back, and I don't mind seeing someone take his work and 'do it better', no matter if it's a 60 year old secretary or a 15 year old kid.
Let's see what happens.
She builds her own suit in her dorm room which is what gets Tony's attention. She's also not the first teenager to do so.
Haven't read the story where she appears, and have to wonder: no matter how smart she is, where does she (or any other teenagers you allude to) get the resources to build Iron Man armor in her dorm room? She can't exactly scrounge microcircuitry, fuel and other such items from the recycling bins on campus.
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Well if Tony can do it IN A CAVE, , I'm sure a dorm room isn't much of a stretch.
Depends on what she's using for the power supply, how much demand she's putting on it, and what the suit capabilities are.
ie, if she built the MK 0 armor with a primitive ARC or even a high-density power cell, that's not too much of a stretch.
And tech keeps bounding fast into the future. the MK 0 was (as far as I could tell from IM1) had programming that was run off a 486. Most *dump* phones these days could outprocess that...
*enjoys questions*
Also Yinsen in the comics helped a lot more.
Granted, I'm no Green Lantern expert, but from what little I DO know "has his personality/background constantly changed and reversed in some drastic hope to make them interesting" sounds just likeNot sure how much of that is sarcasm.Not much at all... Huge Hal fan here ;)
The others have very little going for them, and have their personalities/backgrounds constantly changed and reversed in some drastic hope to make them interesting.
ParralaxHal.
It sounds like every comic character that's existed for more than a few years.
He has a point, though. If the other Green Lanterns had been successful, they would still be there.
It's also very similar to x-23 becoming the new wolverine.
The big difference is that X-23 had existed for several years before she became the new Wolverine, and was a popular character. This is not the case with Iron Girl.
So if RiRi (is that the name?) turns out to be sober, balanced, practical (I can't fix ALL the problems, but I'll do what I can) as well as capable of taking say, one of the earlier Iron Man suits that had issues (Stealth model comes to mind) and makes it go on a far greater level than Tony Stark was ever capable of doing?
Let's see what happens.
Sober, balanced and practical..hmm..all the things you would not normally associate with a 15 year old of either sex. I don't care how smart they are a 15 year old does not have the life experience to make rational decisions in life or death situations.
Plus...They could at least have had the decency to wait until Stan the Man passed on before ruining another of his creations
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I read an article on this other day. I am kind of looking forward to it!
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Sober, balanced and practical..hmm..all the things you would not normally associate with a 15 year old of either sex. I don't care how smart they are a 15 year old does not have the life experience to make rational decisions in life or death situations.Plus...They could at least have had the decency to wait until Stan the Man passed on before ruining another of his creations
Normally associate perhaps not but a 15 year old can be mature and rational. And a teenager not using the usual tropes is a breath of fresh air. That is one of the reasons that made Alexis Castle so great.
And please no more of that ruining his creations stuff. That make it more and more difficult to take someone seriously.
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If Riri was introduced as a new research engineer and slowly worked her way up to being supergenius and was the logical pick when Tony retired, that's decent storytelling.
For that reason, I'm totally okay with Amadeus Cho taking over for the Hulk, from Banner, for awhile, because he's had *years* of being established in the superhero community, tagging along with Hercules and on his own.
Ditto the new Thor, who is at least someone we've heard of before, and has had quite a bit more build up over the decades than the apparently-forgotten Masterson/Thunderstrike did.
Any indication that he hands over the most sophisticated weapon system invented to someone he barely knows... because... plot?? That's problematic.
Yeah, this is a far cry from Armor Wars Tony, who attacked Stingray (a fellow Avenger with a battlesuit made from electrified shark cartilage because he 'might be using stolen Starktech'), and stormed Project Pegasus to destroy the Guardsman armors *he had sold the government.*
Still, it's kind of in-character for more recent Tony, who hands out Iron Spider suits to whatever clones Baron Blitzschlag tells him are good to go.
Marvel's really cranking out the lady super-geniuses in the last year or so. Monica Rappacini and Maddy Cho have been showing up in Totally Awesome Hulk, there's Brashear's daughter in Captain Marvel / Ultimates, Nadia 'Pym' (the new Wasp) in one of the Avengers books, one of the two top AIM researchers is female (and the other is another Brashear's brainy spawn), and now Riri. One the one hand, it's nice that the 'eight smartest people on Earth' aren't all going to be dudes forever. On the other hand, Nadia, in particular, is pretty darn over the top (actually reminding me of some of the over the top Pym 'Scientist Supreme' stuff from Mighty Avengers, a little *too* in your face with how amazingly super-smart he was, to the point of reading like bad fanfic). Hopefully most of the ladies can avoid that sort of nonsense.
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She builds her own suit in her dorm room which is what gets Tony's attention. She's also not the first teenager to do so.Haven't read the story where she appears, and have to wonder: no matter how smart she is, where does she (or any other teenagers you allude to) get the resources to build Iron Man armor in her dorm room? She can't exactly scrounge microcircuitry, fuel and other such items from the recycling bins on campus.1. She's a fifteen year old attending MIT. I assume she stole them from some lab or went dumpster diving behind the model railroad club.
2. It's s comic book. Questions like yours have no place here.
If I recall correctly, the Marvel Wiki entry said she did indeed steal the parts and equipment necessary. The campus being MIT, it sort of might make sense she can find the stuff she might need. Better resources than a cave, anyway.
I recall the wiki also said something about she put it together in two weeks. I suppose that's where the "it's a comic book" part comes in.
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Ditto the new Thor, who is at least someone we've heard of before, and has had quite a bit more build up over the decades than the apparently-forgotten Masterson/Thunderstrike did.
Speaking of.....
The original Thor finally returns in new Marvel Comic series Unworthy Thor
Might not be too long before Thor is back to wielding his hammer.