Hello boards! I would really appreciate some advice on building a Psychic character for the Iron Gods adventure path.
I was thinking along the lines of her being infected by some sort of 'ghost in the machine', perhaps through the medium of nanites that infect her skin or blood. This unlocks or gives her the psychic powers. I'm thinking about human or half-elf.
In terms of role, I want her to be a strong caster, but also handle herself in combat (damage dealing as well as control). Would definitely be interested in any thoughts about multiclassing of Variant Multiclassing that would work well with Psychic to bolster the combat role (tough one I know).
I think we're using 20 point buy system.
Thanks in advance.
If you fully wanna go "ghost in the machine" (or even Ghost in the Shell), there is the Android race that was created specifically for the Iron Gods campaign setting. Very fluffy for this AP.
Mindtech sounds like the discipline that you want. I would also look into the Psi tech options. If you plan on multi classing into something like fighter, then I would take the Mutation Mind archetype.
You want to be a blaster-battler Psychic? Thats a tough one. I am not an expert of Psychics though i have played one before... Let's see though, some recommendations:
The Mindtech discipline can actually work in this campaign, i still think Self-perfection is the best discipline all around but, For Iron Gods, i would go with the Mindtech.
As for Discoveries,
The Force Field discovery could be useful. It misses the crucial part of other force fields where hits count as misses if they dont deplete your barrier but i bet most GMs will give it to you anyways.
Psychic Battery will power your Phrenic point recovery.
Kinetic Enhancement might come into play as well if you want to get up close for touch attacks/melee (But i would not recommend this role and consequently, would not recommend this discovery.)
If you are not playing in PFS than Techsmith could be worthwhile, talk to your GM about it.
I wouldnt really use any VMC, its just my opinion but i dont think you ever really get anything good out of it. If you could pick up Bloodline Arcana than the Impossible Bloodline would be awesome. If you could get Dex to damage with Gunslinger than that would be great. As is about the only VMC i like is Bard for a boost to your knowledge checks and the inspire ability if there are no other bards in the party.
I would suggest instead you take your extra five feats and sink them into a combat proficiency for lasers or something. So you end up using the 5 feats from VMC instead on Exotic Weapon Proficiency, PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and Weapon Focus. Since you will be shooting at touch AC you might be able to get away with being 1/2 BAB.
Thanks, guys. Really helpful advice.
I'd not really looked into the Mindtech discipline, so food for thought their.
Torbyne, I guess you're saying that I'll probably struggle to be an effective blaster and battler. What about battler with spells focused more on control/buffing? I'd be happy to pick ranged (as you suggest with guns) or melee (rather like a dark jedi kind of feel) rather than both
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As a 1/2 BAB class, you should avoid melee; your hit chance will not keep pace. Other than that, straight psychic with the mindtech discipline and Exotic Weapon (Firearms) should work well for this AP.
If you want, you can also take Amateur Gunslinger to be a little better at guns. The Point Blank and Precise Shot feats are useful for both guns and ranged touch spells.
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Have you looked at the Nanite sorcerer bloodline? Better blasting class and still sounds like what you're looking for.
On-topic, be very careful with an android psychic - emotion components are going to be a problem (no problem for an android nanite sorcerer, however.)
Shadowfane wrote: Thanks, guys. Really helpful advice.
I'd not really looked into the Mindtech discipline, so food for thought their.
Torbyne, I guess you're saying that I'll probably struggle to be an effective blaster and battler. What about battler with spells focused more on control/buffing? I'd be happy to pick ranged (as you suggest with guns) or melee (rather like a dark jedi kind of feel) rather than both
If you want to be a jedi/sith, there are maybe three ways of pulling off some of the feel, but only one is a psychic and it isnt that synergistic...
1) Play a melee Kineticist. Aether or Air can mimic a lot of force abilities, Kinetic Blade can (mostly) mimic a Lightsaber.
2) Play a Mindblade Magus. Psychic melee character, Mindblades can sub in for lightsabers and a good spell list for self buffs, DPR.
3) There is technically a lightsaber as an exotic weapon that exists in Pathfinder... but good luck getting it. I would never suggest building a character around finding one specific named magic item that is only in play at higher levels. But if you want to, you can get a hold of it, burn a feat towards proficincy and deal mediocre damage in melee. It resolves as a touch attack so you can probably still land hits as a Psychic but you wont have the stats or iteratives to do much with it.
The problem with being a fighter first is that the Psychic chassis doesnt fight. you dont have the Fort saves, HP, BAB or proficiencies to pull it off.
Playing a ranged combatant with tech weapons can actually work... a little bit. Semi-automatic firearms dont rely on iterative attacks from BAB, they innately can fire twice as if you had Rapid Shot and if you actually do have Rapid Shot you can fire them three times as a full attack. They resolve as touch attacks so you can reliably hit if you invested a little into DEX (but this makes you MAD as you need INT, WIS, DEX and probably a little CON) All you need is a feat for using them. And possibly the Technologist feat if your GM thinks you have to have that for regular care and maintenance of tech weapons.
Pros:
- Available fairly easily in Iron Gods
- Accurate enough for 1/2 BAB class
- Charges can be provided by Psychic Discipline/Spell slots in a pinch
- Thematic?
Cons:
- Energy damage, they are low damage and its easy for all shots to be soaked up by resistance. You dont get any means of boosting your damage easily.
- Even dabbling in ranged combat will eat half your feats
- No equivalent to Clustered Shots exists for energy damage based weapons.
Something else, i know i recommended avoiding Variant Multiclassing. I would so the same for any multiclassing. If you have to do it then dip for a single level for BAB, saves and proficiencies but if your primary class is Psychic than levels are the singularly most important thing for your efficacy, they grant you yours spells and spells is what a psychic does. Martial classes fare much better with multiclassing because they can stack up BAB progression from Fighter, Slayer, Barbarian, Swashbuckler etc.
Thank you all. I've played a kineticist (Playtesting) before and like them (although a little one dimensional gameplay wise). Want to try something different this time round.
Mind blade magus definitely of interest, but I'm trying to be brave and go the caster route. I think the issue is I tend to play combat types (actually mostly DM). So would really like to go the caster route but worried I'll have nothing to do a lot of the time at low levels.
Nanite blooded sorc definitely looks cool and perhaps favoured option suggested so far. However, I'm really taken with the psychic. Guess units going to be difficult to get the damage dealing feel that way though?
Thanks for all the input. Definitely helping me to hone in on what I to play.
There's also the Black-Blooded Oracle.
Not spoiling anything, but Numerian fluid (strange fluids) features pretty prominently in Iron Gods, and is especially present in Torch, the town you start out in.
Shadowfane wrote: Thanks, guys. Really helpful advice.
I'd not really looked into the Mindtech discipline, so food for thought their.
Torbyne, I guess you're saying that I'll probably struggle to be an effective blaster and battler. What about battler with spells focused more on control/buffing? I'd be happy to pick ranged (as you suggest with guns) or melee (rather like a dark jedi kind of feel) rather than both
While you're looking at the Mindtech discipline, don't forget to check out Psi-Tech.
Something else to consider, a lot of the psychic's spell list is going to be mind based effects that maybe arent best against robots... That is why i brought up the Impossible Bloodline before, they treat all spells cast against constructs of any type as if they were living, thinking, creatures. charm person, hypnotic pattern, color spray, right out of the gate you can play with robots.
Try this, knock up a psychic spell list and see how you feel about it. then do the same for a sorcerer and see which you like better.
Yeah, if you want to be a blaster psychic, you are just going to be sad in a lot of the combats, as almost all the stuff that is not completely immune to you, has huge will saves.
Just taking a quick look for stuff immune to mind thrust.... I'd say about 80% of the enemies in book 1, only about 40% of book two (but including the boss), back up to 80% of book 3 (also including the boss), down to 10% of book 4 (but you are not going to want to make mental contact with them), book 5 you would be great in, and book 6 you are back to 75% again including the boss fight. So a grand total of a good 50% of the encounters, as well as 50% of the boss fights, you would be unable to contribute.
If anything, support psychic would be amazing in the game, as you can help deal with all the mind effecting things you are going to be fighting, (And boy, are there a lot of them)
Also, for your nanite idea.... Talk to your DM to get something specific for your game, otherwise you are going to be sad, because besides one specific type of android, they have no feelings, and thus, no occult class stuff. (Or raging if barbarian, or buffs if bard)
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Blast spells for a psychic:
0-Level Psychic Spells: telekinetic projectile
1st-Level Psychic Spells: ki arrow, magic missile, mind thrust I
2nd-Level Psychic Spells: blood blaze, boiling blood, burning gaze, chill metal, ghost whip, heat metal, mind thrust II, sonic scream
3rd-Level Psychic Spells: agonizing rebuke, force punch, mind thrust III, node of blasting, pellet blast, swarm of fangs, twilight knife, vampiric touch
4th-Level Psychic Spells: black tentacles, fleshworm infestation, ghost wolf, mind thrust IV, shout, telekinesis, wandering star motes
5th-Level Psychic Spells: etheric shards, explode head, mind thrust V, psychic crush I, sonic thrust, wreath of blades
6th-Level Psychic Spells: blade barrier, disintegrate, mind thrust V, psychic crush II
7th-Level Psychic Spells: ectoplasmic eruption, finger of death, ki shout, limited wish, mage's sword, psychic crush III, resonating word, reverse gravity
8th-Level Psychic Spells: clenched fist, earthquake, etherealness, orb of the void, psychic crush IV, shout (greater)
9th-Level Psychic Spells: crushing hand, implosion, power word kill, psychic crush V, telekinetic storm, transmute blood to acid, wail of the banshee, wish
Granted, the psychic has a better selection of battlefield control spells; however, you can still have some success as a blaster.
Dragonchess Player wrote: Blast spells for a psychic:
0-Level Psychic Spells: telekinetic projectile
1st-Level Psychic Spells: ki arrow, magic missile, mind thrust I
2nd-Level Psychic Spells: blood blaze, boiling blood, burning gaze, chill metal, ghost whip, heat metal, mind thrust II, sonic scream
3rd-Level Psychic Spells: agonizing rebuke, force punch, mind thrust III, node of blasting, pellet blast, swarm of fangs, twilight knife, vampiric touch
4th-Level Psychic Spells: black tentacles, fleshworm infestation, ghost wolf, mind thrust IV, shout, telekinesis, wandering star motes
5th-Level Psychic Spells: etheric shards, explode head, mind thrust V, psychic crush I, sonic thrust, wreath of blades
6th-Level Psychic Spells: blade barrier, disintegrate, mind thrust V, psychic crush II
7th-Level Psychic Spells: ectoplasmic eruption, finger of death, ki shout, limited wish, mage's sword, psychic crush III, resonating word, reverse gravity
8th-Level Psychic Spells: clenched fist, earthquake, etherealness, orb of the void, psychic crush IV, shout (greater)
9th-Level Psychic Spells: crushing hand, implosion, power word kill, psychic crush V, telekinetic storm, transmute blood to acid, wail of the banshee, wish
Granted, the psychic has a better selection of battlefield control spells; however, you can still have some success as a blaster.
Umm, i am not sure where your bar for effective is then. Knowing that this is a character for Iron Gods and is built off a Psychic...
- Ki Arrow, resolves against full AC and deals your normal unarmed strike damage
- Mind Thrust, as stated before, not that effective in this campaign
- Blood Blaze, minor damage, cant affect things without blood, if used on an ally it will cause them damage too.
- Boiling Blood, Minor Damage, cant affect things without blood. (really, a second level spell slot for 1 damage a round that has a save to negate?)
- Burning Gaze, maybe the best option so far... that still only deals 1D6 damage.
- Chill Metal, takes two rounds to do damage and starts a 1D4.
- Ghost Whip, you need to spend an action to cast it so you cant attack until round 2, you need to be within 15' of the target and you deal 1D3 non lethal.
- Heat Metal, see Chill Metal.
- Mind Thrust II, see mind thrust I
- Sonic Scream, this one is amazing compared to everything else but on its own it is 2D6 damage with save for half.
I am not going to break down the full list but looking through it i am not seeing any stand out spells at level 3 either but at least there are a few options there. So yeah, if you want to wait until level 6 to really contribute to combat than you be a Psychic Blaster... until then you are averaging, what, 3 damage a round to half the enemies you encounter?
Actually, i have a little more time to go through this and looked at some more of the list, starting up at level 3 spells.
- Agonizing Rebuke, non lethal, mind affecting, only activates if the target attempts to harm you and only 2D6. Granted, if you can trick something into a 5 hit full attack than it is nice... except you still take 5 attacks as a D6 class.
- Force Punch, It gets points for being the first generally applicable damage dice per level on the list but its only 1D4 and has a range of touch. Force damage is always nice and a Psychic could spend phrenic points to up that to D6s... still an abysmal plan to rely on without planning a build just for touch attacks. I did not know there was a Fist subdomain, thats not relevant but kind of cool at least.
- Mind Thrust III, D8s are nice but mind affecting is hampering, extremely so in Iron Gods.
- Node of Blasting, its a trap spell. literally, it creates a trap. unless your GM rules that you can just touch an enemy directly with it or touch a rock and throw it at something than making sure it goes off when you need it too is a deal breaker. Also, mind affecting.
- Pellet Blast, A decent enough choice for a rich blaster of another class. D8 per two levels that is subject to DR or becomes costly per casting only looks good here compared to the lack luster list so far. It will work on robots though which is better than all of that mind affecting stuff we've seen so far. keep in mind that robots have Hardness, not DR so even spending the 100gp for adamantine pellets wont overcome that resistance.
- Swarm of Fangs, Its nice for a long haul battle and untyped 2D6 that doesnt allow spell resistance will guarantee around 7 damage a round to anything that isnt a robot with hardness of at least 10. Note that a lot of enemies in Iron Gods will be robots with hardness of at least 10. A great extra spell to set up outside of those encounters though.
- Twilight Knife, waste a spell for a 1D4 with possibly a 1D6 precision damage rider effect. only works when you attack (hopefully works if you attack with a spell) a single target and even then it has to roll an attack off your own BAB against regular AC.
- Vampiric Touch, 1D6 per two levels as a touch attack is already discussed not good enough to call yourself a blaster. also, it is a necromancy effect which robots are immune too.
Final thoughts, a Psychic can pretend to be a blaster by relying heavily, and i mean almost exclusively, on the Mind Thrust spell chain. It is limiting in range, each iteration has a poor damage cap, it is mind affecting so constructs, swarms and undead are pretty much immune to it. Mind Thrust in general is only worth taking at higher levels and undercasting, or as you level up trade away low levels of the spell for the higher ones i suppose.
In the end a Psychic Blaster has to rely on Telekinetic Projectile and Mind Thrust I until level 4, dealing an average of 3.5 damage per round and either granting a save for half or attacking full AC to do that. Their other options actually deal less than that 3.5 per round.
At levels 4 and 5 you can mix in Sonic Scream for 2D6 sonic damage (average 7) and Mind Thrust II against living targets which can pull off around 22 damage with save for half.
By level 6 you can try being a blaster with Force Punch (get into melee range and deal a whopping average of 15 damage, worth it if your enemy is fond of lairs full of ledges and lava pits) Pellet Blast will eek out around 13 damage in a 30' cone and Mind Thrust III which will pull in around 27 damage on a living target.
This part is all just my opinion of course but i am not seeing a class capable of being a blaster and certainly not many spell options i would want to throw against things immune to mind affects. Going through the spells up to level 5, character level 10, i see Mind Thrusts and Explode Head as your go to combat blasting. Explode Head still have restrictions that make it less than ideal against Robots what with it granting a fort save and robots being immune to things with fort saves. You can be an extremely limited damage dealing psychic in most campaigns but the deck is stacked against you in Iron Gods. Even a Mindtech wont be a blaster in Iron Gods, your first good blasting spell doesnt come online until level 10 when you get Lightening Arc.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
You will be OK against many foes and can fall back on magic missile for others during the first several levels.
You're basically in the same boat as a Flame oracle in a campaign that has foes with fire resistance: you can't effectively blast everything you face. Also, like the witch, the spell list is more geared toward controlling/debuffing (without the Elemental patron).
I am not trying to argue that a Psychic isnt a capable class, but when you look at blaster Wizards, Sorcerers or Arcanists, you will not even be competitive.
In a campaign themed heavily with living enemies you can get by with single target blasting at a little below what other blaster classes can do. In Iron Gods it is a little misleading to think it is just a few things you can not blast, you will be out of luck blasting any robots until level 10. remember, Psychic blasting is mind affecting so thats out the window. the remaining damage spells wont beat the hardness 10 that robots have. Magic Missile doesnt even work on them as no missile will roll over 10 points even if you burn phrenic points to boost it.
There does not exist the same kind of support in spell selection, archetypes or discipline as an arcane caster has between their spells, bloodlines and/or schools. When you are throwing out 5D8 Mind Thrust IIs for 22.5 damage with save for half, so say averaging 11 damage per casting, a Sorcerer is using level one slots for Snowballs at 5D6+10 for 27.5 average per casting, drop that to 20.6 damage for missed touch attacks.
If you are playing with a group that goes for "thematic" characters over combat effectiveness than a Psychic Blaster can be fun. If you are playing with a dedicated Archer in the group than you are done before you begin, never able to catch up to what they put out.
Hi Guys,
Really thank you so much for all the effort you've put into addressing this question - it's been a fascinating examination and really helpful. I feel I can draw a very clear conclusion!
It's a shame that PF is often so restrictive when trying to realise a character concept mechanically by punishing or taxing non-optimal routes.
That said, I think I will try a psychic in another campaign setting, and for Iron Gods try to realise the concept by going with a blaster sorcerer. This way I can be an effective member of the party and not feel like a spare part, but 're-skin' the sorcerer powers with a psychic/nanotech theme to realise my original concept.
I'm planning on a human orc-blooded tattooed sorcerer.
How it fits the theme is that she sneaked into the forge area in Torch and was 'infected' by some sort of alien tech/intelligence. The character concept starts with a slightly disturbed and vulnerable young lady who becomes increasingly alien and inhuman as she grows in power. Eventually becoming a terrifying figure of barely contained power.
How much of this is innate power unlocked by the nanite infestation (sort of human potential unlocked story) and how much is the nanites themselves increasingly taking control of their host) I'll have to see.
I want this alien 'source' to manifest in all her powers, so orc-blooded darkvision is a strange green glow to her eyes, Burning Hands manifest as the same violet fire energy seen in Torch's eponymous forge flame (if I take scorching ray later, I'll describe this as shooting from her eyes like cyclops in X-men). Mage armor will see her skin crawl with black hexagonal shapes formed by the nanites, providing a skin-hugging void-suit effect. Shield will be an energy barrier summoned from her mind), etc.
The Tattoos will start out looking like black lines that crawl across her skin, following the lines of her veins. Later, as she grows in power, these will manifest as glowing circuits embedded in her skin or black void suit (mage armour), with pulsing energy travelling their length (dancing lights).
Summon monster will see the nanites poor from her skin (or eyes or mouth!) and form themselves into whatever creature is summoned with a weird alien look to it.
Finally many of the other spells can be skinned as mind/psychic/tech effects - e.g. cause fear, mirror image (actual projected images or tricking the mind of her attackers), etc.
Probably an over-share, but thought you might be interested in how I've taken your advice (to be a sorcerer if I want to be an effective blaster) but tried to keep the original character concept.
Any thoughts on Sorc blaster paths/strategies or tactics would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers, Shadowfane
Android Psychic bloodline sorc, work towards the technomancer prestige class?
Any race, Crossblooded Psychic/Nanite sorceror?
Mindtech Psychic with Eldritch Heritage to get the Nanite bloodline?
Cross-blooded psychic with nanite for theme, orc or dragon for damage boosting, would work. I would avoid androids on a charisma based caster though.
Cross-blooded psychic and impossible let's you mind control robots and still be psychic but that is veering away from blasting.
Cross-blooded nanite and impossible would also match the theme and have a lot of tricks for constructs but gets away from psychic magic.
Shadow, the spells you are going to want to go with are lightning based for the most part.
Have you played a blaster sorc before?
Make sure you take the trait, magical lineage, so you can reduce the adjustment of metamagic that you apply to one spell. For this campaign, i would suggest lightning bolt.
Spell Specialization is amazing, it requires a int of 13, but you +2 to CL, and you can change it whenever you get a new spell level (Technically at every even level, but hey, sorc)
So, if you are going tattooed human, I would do up the following feat line
1: Spell Focus Evo
H: Spell Specialization- Burning hands
S1: Mages Tatoo- Evocation
3: Intensify Spell
5: Persistant Spell
7: Empower Spell
9:
11:
13: Quicken Spell
13B: Widen Spell
15: Spell Perfection
17:
There are some holes for you to fill as you like, but getting intensify early is really important. Burning hands will be doing the heavy lifting for the entirety of levels 1-5 or so,
doing 4d4+4 from level 1, and 5d4+5 levels 2-3. and once you get 2nd level spells it will do 7d4+7 at level 4. This should do you fine until you hit lightning bolt at level 6, and if you switch spell specialization at that point, when you get it it will do 9d6+9. Becuse your bonus damage also gets increased, empower is going to always do more damage then maximised, so you dont need it, but making the bad guys roll twice and take the lower off persistant is pretty good.
Lightning bolt will be the bread and butter until you hit Chain lightning at level 12, and you'll basically just cast better and better versions of that until the game is done. Be sure to have a rod that will let you switch elemental damage.
Don't forget to grab some non-blasty stuff as well. All the standard stuff, glitterdust, haste, greater invis and so forth is still really amazing, but your game will be done at 17th level, so no 9th level spells for you.
I know I'm a bit late to the party but if you still like the idea of ghost in the machinery/Jedi I think that could be really easily achieved with the Ectoplamatist Archetype for the spiritualist (it gives psychic tendrils which power up with your level, which one could easily skin as lightsabers.
if you're set on the Sorc.
The trick with making a blaster Sorc is that you don't need a blast at every level.
pick your element you want to boost and grab that when it comes up, an electric Sorc has to wait a little while to get that but you can still do fine with Scorching Ray until then.
then start focusing on your spell of choice with metamagic and magical lineage. You probably will only need like four or five blasting spells on your entire list, the rest of list can go into low invest high reward strategies like summoning/buffing/controlling. Then when something is inevitable immune to your element summon something to sit on them.
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