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I don't know, I think that over the majority of Marvel history I'd say that Reed and Doom have, by default, been understood as a cut above the rest, particularly in terms of being polymaths who are masters of almost every area of science (and Doom, of course, is a near Dr. Strange level master of magic as well).Doom's 'mastery' of magic seems to come and go. For decades he was *said* to know stuff about magic, but rarely, if ever, *did* any magic. So when he's touted as a potential Sorcerer Supreme, I'm all 'the what now?'
But yeah, he (and Reed) are very much the 'Professor' sort of scientist, just arbitrarily good at *everything,* which does set them a cut above specialists like Tony Stark or Hank McCoy or Emma Frost (who was a genius inventor, once upon a time, able to create mind-switching psi-tech that even Xavier found perplexing, until she reverted to a stripper with telepathy and fake bazongas).
I remember an Iron Man story in which Doom time-travelled them back to Arthurian times, and the two of them had to work together to reconstruct a time-travel machine to get home. Stark's thinking 'I've never met someone with such a ferocious intellect!' and Doom, who has no idea that Iron Man is Stark, 'If his *lackies* are this clever, Stark himself must be a genius!' Heh.
Why can't she be a genius stripper?
And her bazongas are NOT FAKE...
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I approve of this message.
Why can't she be a genius stripper?
And her bazongas are NOT FAKE...
Stripperella
another fine Stan Lee creation
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In Astonishing X-men #1, when Scott and Wolverine were fighing over Jean's memory again, she complained
"Superpowers, a scintillating wit and the best body money can buy... and I still rate below a corpse"
Sooo yeah, she apparently bought that body :P
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Canonically (at least back in the day, he learned magic to rescue his mother's spirit.
Another missed opportunity. I'd love to see an Invaders flashback in which they get help against the occult Thule forces allied with the Nazis (who are attempting to tap the power of slumbering Cthon in Wundagore Mountain) from a young gypsy witch named Caterina, who is dating another gypsy, a young swordsman name Konstantin von Doom.
The Invaders and allies barely succeed, and put Cthon back to sleep, after the Thulian sorcerers attempt to rouse him in a last-ditch effort to punish their foes, but Caterina is cursed by the last dying sorcerer to be hellbound, for her interference...
There's so much rich potential buried in Doom's backstory. If Anton Arcane, over at DC, hadn't already had this storyline, I'd love to see Doom go to hell to rescue his mother, backed up by magical resources back on Earth, and end up warring with Mephisto, and *conquering part of hell in the process.*
'Cause, Doom.
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In Astonishing X-men #1, when Scott and Wolverine were fighing over Jean's memory again, she complained
"Superpowers, a scintillating wit and the best body money can buy... and I still rate below a corpse"
Sooo yeah, she apparently bought that body :P
Which kind of makes sense, if you look at the artwork from her first appearances, where Byrne drew her as a skinny little thing (and quite a bit older).
She's come a long way since then!
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I don't know, I think that over the majority of Marvel history I'd say that Reed and Doom have, by default, been understood as a cut above the rest, particularly in terms of being polymaths who are masters of almost every area of science (and Doom, of course, is a near Dr. Strange level master of magic as well).Doom's 'mastery' of magic seems to come and go. For decades he was *said* to know stuff about magic, but rarely, if ever, *did* any magic. So when he's touted as a potential Sorcerer Supreme, I'm all 'the what now?'
But yeah, he (and Reed) are very much the 'Professor' sort of scientist, just arbitrarily good at *everything,* which does set them a cut above specialists like Tony Stark or Hank McCoy or Emma Frost (who was a genius inventor, once upon a time, able to create mind-switching psi-tech that even Xavier found perplexing, until she reverted to a stripper with telepathy and fake bazongas).
That's pretty much my take on Doom's sorcery. If he really was anywhere near Strange's level, that should be a much larger part of his abilities than he almost always uses. If nothing else, the FF have almost no defences against magic - spy on and harass them in astral form, for example. He's a dabbler with some talent and that's how he's been portrayed the vast majority of the time.
As for Frost, I'd say it's more the "genius inventor" part that was out of character. That's the one-off "I made an impossible device for this one storyline" case.
I remember there was a comic where Doom says he finds magic to be unreliable. There are always hidden costs and consequences behind it. Science is more upfront and suits his intellect better. Why use Arcane Bolts when he can just use Blasters.
The Impression I get is that he knows magic so that it can't be used against him.
If I recall rightly the thing that scarred him was an attempt to b lend technology and science to contact the spirit of his Mother. TSR's RPG listed Doom as a "Disciple" of Eclectic Magic.
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I'd hesitate to ascribe that to surgery rather than to different artist's styles and interpretations of the character.
Try to take that too literally and some characters would be enlargement and reduction surgery on a regular basis - sometimes issue by issue. And not just on breasts, either.
Oh, I agree on that point, in general. Byrne is famous for trying to put some different body types into his work (Heather Hudson was also short and waifish and flat-chested, until he left, and the next artist drew her as a towering amazon a full foot taller with bosums individually as large as her head), and even male characters change radically depending on who is drawing them, with some going from lean and slender (Scott Summers even having the nickname 'Slim' until he's drawn as a bulgy veiny 'roid-monster by the next artist down the road).
But Emma's been written at least twice referring to her augmentations (first by Morrison, IIRC, then again by Whedon), so I'd go with it being more than just artistic license, or a failure to be able to draw more than one basic body type.
And then there's the real world version of this phenomena, as art becomes life... :)
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Besides... We're talking about Emma here.
She is frequently shown as very rich... very vain... and dressing EXTREMLY 'showy'..
Those three things together are a perfect blend for surgery. It really just fits her personality more then artist variation. Someone like Rogue or Jean I wouldn't go for that idea... but Emma? I can picture her stacking the deck in her favor through money.
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In an X-men world money can buy better than a man with a knife and some silicon
Emma would know how to contact all kinds of different mutants, including Flesh Sculpters. I can think of at least one off the top of my head that does pretty good work, turning Callisto from scared one-eyed punk to major hottie.
As long as you can trust him not to turn your arms into tentacles.
you know so many people with superpowers could make a killing if they just applied them to normal jobs.
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Emma would know how to contact all kinds of different mutants, including Flesh Sculpters. I can think of at least one off the top of my head that does pretty good work, turning Callisto from scared one-eyed punk to major hottie.
As long as you can trust him not to turn your arms into tentacles.
Masque could make *so* much money with that power, and yet he lives in a sewer and eats rats. Ugh!
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Emma would know how to contact all kinds of different mutants, including Flesh Sculpters. I can think of at least one off the top of my head that does pretty good work, turning Callisto from scared one-eyed punk to major hottie.
As long as you can trust him not to turn your arms into tentacles.
Masque could make *so* much money with that power, and yet he lives in a sewer and eats rats. Ugh!
The problem is Masque can't remake himself. And because his psychology is so twisted, he really can't bring himself to do anything other than hurt others with his power.
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OTOH, I would also expect her to have done it long before her first appearance, rather than waiting until after she was in the Hellfire Club and all her peers would realize that such a drastic change was artificial. And thus a weakness.Besides... We're talking about Emma here.
She is frequently shown as very rich... very vain... and dressing EXTREMLY 'showy'..
Those three things together are a perfect blend for surgery. It really just fits her personality more then artist variation. Someone like Rogue or Jean I wouldn't go for that idea... but Emma? I can picture her stacking the deck in her favor through money.
LOL
She's also a telepath. I can picture her picking up a stray thought or two about how she's starting to look her age or not as hot as she used to be... Thus prompting 'a change'.
On a similar topic... I can't find the link anymore, but there was a hilarious 'Funny or Die' clip with Sebastion Shaw interrogating Wolverine with Emma reading his mind...
Shaw: "what is he thinking?"
Emma: "He's thinking... boobs."
Shaw: "Blast it woman! Why do wear lingerie to an interrogation!!
Emma: "Boobs... boobs... yep... He's just thinking of boobs"
Shaw: "you have ONE power! You read minds... and that's all they ever think about when you're around!!'
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The problem is Masque can't remake himself. And because his psychology is so twisted, he really can't bring himself to do anything other than hurt others with his power.
Thanks to the wonders of secondary mutations (his kicked in when he tried to fleshwarp the Apocalypse-changed Caliban back to normal), he now can change himself (and has transitioned into a woman!).
But yeah, still with the cray-cray, so he is unlikely to make productive use of his powers, even if that sort of thing was common in the comic-book universes. (Where someone like Storm could pretty much change the world single-handedly, by bringing rain wherever it's needed, and sending hurricanes into the middle of the ocean to spin themselves out.)
Eh. Comics. Lots of people with world-changing powers, and only the super-villains actually try to use them to change the world (and when heroes attempt it, such as in the Squadron Supreme mini-series, it becomes a self-justifying morality tale about why they shouldn't have bothered and stuck to reactively punching super-villains professionally). Lots of super-genius inventors who can create tiny infinite power sources or weapons or armors or teleporters or whatever that could make them billions, and then say, 'Hey, I'll use my new super-gizmo to knock over a bank!'
So it goes. Still, as for Masque specifically, it's not like there aren't people with amazing potential who are currently posting on messageboards about comic book characters instead of changing the world. :)
In an X-men world money can buy better than a man with a knife and some silicon
Emma would know how to contact all kinds of different mutants, including Flesh Sculpters. I can think of at least one off the top of my head that does pretty good work, turning Callisto from scared one-eyed punk to major hottie.
As long as you can trust him not to turn your arms into tentacles.
you know so many people with superpowers could make a killing if they just applied them to normal jobs.
I want tentacle arms...
The problem is Masque can't remake himself. And because his psychology is so twisted, he really can't bring himself to do anything other than hurt others with his power.Thanks to the wonders of secondary mutations(his kicked in when he tried to fleshwarp the Apocalypse-changed Caliban back to normal), he now can change himself (and has transitioned into a woman!).
But yeah, still with the cray-cray, so he is unlikely to make productive use of his powers, even if that sort of thing was common in the comic-book universes. (Where someone like Storm could pretty much change the world single-handedly, by bringing rain wherever it's needed, and sending hurricanes into the middle of the ocean to spin themselves out.)
Eh. Comics. Lots of people with world-changing powers, and only the super-villains actually try to use them to change the world (and when heroes attempt it, such as in the Squadron Supreme mini-series, it becomes a self-justifying morality tale about why they shouldn't have bothered and stuck to reactively punching super-villains professionally). Lots of super-genius inventors who can create tiny infinite power sources or weapons or armors or teleporters or whatever that could make them billions, and then say, 'Hey, I'll use my new super-gizmo to knock over a bank!'
So it goes. Still, as for Masque specifically, it's not like there aren't people with amazing potential who are currently posting on messageboards about comic book characters instead of changing the world. :)
I can't believe you used those words in all seriousness.
One of the worst storylines to come out of the series. Ever. And it is canon. Ugh.
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of secondary mutations as a concept (including Emma's diamond form). It's not like they didn't already have a ton of mutants with two or more mostly unrelated powers (Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, Banshee - one of dozens of mutants with 'power X, plus I can fly for no darn reason at all...', etc.) so it's not like they needed a special excuse for why Emma developed a power unrelated to her telepathy.
But there they are.
Try to take that to literally and some characters would be enlargement and reduction surgery on a regular basis - sometimes issue by issue. And not just on breasts, either.
It's always hilarious to see how much size variation some artist can give the same character even within the same issue. Cain Marko in street clothes...bigger than average guy, but he still looks plausibly human. In the Juggernaught costume, his bicep alone is bigger than half the X-Men team.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of secondary mutations as a concept (including Emma's diamond form). It's not like they didn't already have a ton of mutants with two or more mostly unrelated powers (Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, Banshee - one of dozens of mutants with 'power X, plus I can fly for no darn reason at all...', etc.) so it's not like they needed a special excuse for why Emma developed a power unrelated to her telepathy.
But there they are.
I like secondary mutations better than the story behind how Jean developed telepathy.
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I remember an Iron Man story in which Doom time-travelled them back to Arthurian times, and the two of them had to work together to reconstruct a time-travel machine to get home. Stark's thinking 'I've never met someone with such a ferocious intellect!' and Doom, who has no idea that Iron Man is Stark, 'If his *lackies* are this clever, Stark himself must be a genius!' Heh.
Actually that was when the Mighty Avengers fought Doom and he was getting tutoring from Morgan Le Fay.
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Try to take that to literally and some characters would be enlargement and reduction surgery on a regular basis - sometimes issue by issue. And not just on breasts, either.It's always hilarious to see how much size variation some artist can give the same character even within the same issue. Cain Marko in street clothes...bigger than average guy, but he still looks plausibly human. In the Juggernaught costume, his bicep alone is bigger than half the X-Men team.
I only ever recall one shot of Juggernaut in street clothes - the issue when he was attacked by Nimrod. Were there others? I always thought it would make more sense than having him in costume all the time.
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I remember an Iron Man story in which Doom time-travelled them back to Arthurian times, and the two of them had to work together to reconstruct a time-travel machine to get home. Stark's thinking 'I've never met someone with such a ferocious intellect!' and Doom, who has no idea that Iron Man is Stark, 'If his *lackies* are this clever, Stark himself must be a genius!' Heh.Actually that was when the Mighty Avengers fought Doom and he was getting tutoring from Morgan Le Fay.
This is the story I'm thinking of, from the early 80s, although I have no doubt there were other times they bumped into each other and the Avengers got involved.
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I only ever recall one shot of Juggernaut in street clothes - the issue when he was attacked by Nimrod. Were there others? I always thought it would make more sense than having him in costume all the time.
I vaguely recall him in a suit the day he showed up to the mansion with his lawyer (riding on his back!) to take custody of the mansion and property since Charles had died during the X-Termination Agenda or something (at the hands of the X-Cutioner? Oh, Marvel, stahp, you're killing me!). But the mansion had just been gutted and all the cool stuff (alien tech, etc.) he was hoping to score was gone, thanks to some nano-bomb from Bastion or some such nonsense, and it was just an empty shell of a house, so he lost interest and leapt away.
These stories. My brain grins when I try to describe them.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I only ever recall one shot of Juggernaut in street clothes - the issue when he was attacked by Nimrod. Were there others? I always thought it would make more sense than having him in costume all the time.I vaguely recall him in a suit the day he showed up to the mansion with his lawyer (riding on his back!) to take custody of the mansion and property since Charles had died during the X-Termination Agenda or something (at the hands of the X-Cutioner? Oh, Marvel, stahp, you're killing me!). But the mansion had just been gutted and all the cool stuff (alien tech, etc.) he was hoping to score was gone, thanks to some nano-bomb from Bastion or some such nonsense, and it was just an empty shell of a house, so he lost interest and leapt away.
These stories. My brain grins when I try to describe them.
I remember Professor hulk against Cain in T-shirt and jeans. He didn't recognize Cain and tried to start by 'going easy' on him. Got his butt handed to him. I don't remember if he was ever shown in civies in his appearance in Thunderstrike. But he wore his costume specifically to avoid violence and try to just scare people. (and paid for the firetruck he destroyed too!)
Canonically (at least back in the day, he learned magic to rescue his mother's spirit.Another missed opportunity. I'd love to see an Invaders flashback in which they get help against the occult Thule forces allied with the Nazis (who are attempting to tap the power of slumbering Cthon in Wundagore Mountain) from a young gypsy witch named Caterina, who is dating another gypsy, a young swordsman name Konstantin von Doom.
The Invaders and allies barely succeed, and put Cthon back to sleep, after the Thulian sorcerers attempt to rouse him in a last-ditch effort to punish their foes, but Caterina is cursed by the last dying sorcerer to be hellbound, for her interference...
There's so much rich potential buried in Doom's backstory. If Anton Arcane, over at DC, hadn't already had this storyline, I'd love to see Doom go to hell to rescue his mother, backed up by magical resources back on Earth, and end up warring with Mephisto, and *conquering part of hell in the process.*
'Cause, Doom.
I do remember one old Invaders story where some unwilling scientist and his bandaged assistant help Schiklgruber summon Thor to assassinate Stalin. It all ends badly, of course, with the assistant revealing that he's Victor von Doom as he scornfully leaves Hitler in the shattered remains of the machine used to reach Asgard.
On the other hand it did give Union Jack II (or was it III?) the power to toss lightning bolts.
This is the story I'm thinking of, from the early 80s, although I have no doubt there were other times they bumped into each other and the Avengers got involved.I remember an Iron Man story in which Doom time-travelled them back to Arthurian times, and the two of them had to work together to reconstruct a time-travel machine to get home. Stark's thinking 'I've never met someone with such a ferocious intellect!' and Doom, who has no idea that Iron Man is Stark, 'If his *lackies* are this clever, Stark himself must be a genius!' Heh.Actually that was when the Mighty Avengers fought Doom and he was getting tutoring from Morgan Le Fay.
Well I recall one story that came after Civil War that I'm pretty sure had the Mighty Avengers involved in it.
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I only ever recall one shot of Juggernaut in street clothes - the issue when he was attacked by Nimrod. Were there others? I always thought it would make more sense than having him in costume all the time.
Check post #14 Uncanny X-Men #183
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I only ever recall one shot of Juggernaut in street clothes - the issue when he was attacked by Nimrod. Were there others? I always thought it would make more sense than having him in costume all the time.
My favorite is shortly after the original Secret Wars. Colossus had just gotten back after falling in love with some random alien chick he shared about three panels with before she died, and had dumped Kitty immediately upon his return to Earth. Logan and Kurt decide to take him out to a bar. While he's there, he becomes an a+#@~## drunk. He decides to pick a fight with a tough looking guy at the bar...because....a*#~+** drunk. Logan and Kurt recognize the tough-looking guy...it's Marko. Just sitting in the bar, minding his own business, drinking...not involved in any villainous activity. They decide not to tell Colossus, partially because he's being an a*#&~+& there, and partially because he was an a#%@+%$ to Kitty earlier. Anyway, the fight goes about as well as you would expect. Logan and Kurt carry his unconscious body back to the mansion.
I doubly love this; 1) because it's just funny as hell, and 2) because Kitty's always been my favorite X-Men character.
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(Randarak literally posted a link to that exact scene in the post above yours, guy. Six hours ago. *cough*)
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Yeah, I realized that after I did a tiny bit of research to try and remember which issue (and to see how many of the details I got wrong...it's been years since I read that one).
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I do what I can... :-D
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Yeah, I realized that after I did a tiny bit of research to try and remember which issue (and to see how many of the details I got wrong...it's been years since I read that one).
Obviously you only got the details wrong because spider-man was confusing you. That rascal is behind everything.
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Spiderman's not a rascal. He's an Avenger!
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I'm people.
So apparently A Hulk will kill the Avengers. Again.
I guess the Maestro didn't do it for some people.
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So... Marvel lied about Cap. He was under mind control by a female(?) Cosmic Cube who did this to jerk the fans' chains please the Red Skull.
More here for those interested: Cap's a Nazi, no wait, he really isn't.
And once again I am reminded why I stopped reading current issues of Marvel Comics years ago.
Though I do wonder what business model Marvel is pursuing where you apparently kick your readers in the posterior for laughs and expect them to keep buying the comic.
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Yeah for all their claims of "No Mind Control, Clones or alternate reality Caps" it turns out to be Mind Control.
I'm guessing the backlash requiered a very quick response to clear the air.
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I can't believe anyone actually fell for it. Even with their 'promises'.
The whole story... (and I'm not even reading right and I knew this...) Cap was old and Falcon was new Cap.... Adventure involving a cosmic cube and Red Skull Made Cap Young again.... Cap revealed as Hydra.
This story was so blatantly obvious that I couldn't believe the amount of Hype it had gotten. The only real question is how long it will last before it gets reversed... and if he's going to have to go for years of disgrace in the public eye because of it.
Bucky was mind controlled assassin for years, and isn't despised... so I assume that by next year Cap will have washed this stink off him.
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Three things I want to say:
1) It's not EXACTLY mind control so much as "Cosmic Cubes alter reality." Hence why Thanos keep wanting one. (Red Skull also likes them.)
2) I agree this is pretty BS but again, does prove to many what we suspected, Kobik is in the Red Skull's pocket. Duh.
3) It's probably up to Sam Wilson to save Cap from Red Skull, wash the stink off what happened to Steve, and probably also keep carrying the shield until they either a) kill him or b) find a way to bring back Cap as a moral authority figure in 1-2 years time.
