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That is completely f%*@ing idiotic. I was going to collect this series, but if that's the kind of crap they're going to pull, I'm just going to hand the issue right back to the comic book store and have them take the title off my list.
Seriously, how big of an a#!@+## do you have to be to take the original Captain America and turn him into some Nazi douchebag? Things would have been better to just let Rogers die and leave Sam as the inheritor of the mantle. Though I wish they'd get rid of his wings.
Krensky has the right of it. No way it sticks. After all, they have movies to make, and there's no way the ongoing series of the original Captain America is about him as a villain.
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I'm watching people have meltdowns on Twitter and threaten Nick Spencer with violence.
I have no patience for fanboys who have been reading comics FOR DECADES and yet apparently have no idea how this particular brand of serialized fiction works.
Was this a surprise and shock when I read this this morning? Yes. Have I gone all "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!!" Nope. Because now I'm curious to see where this story is taking us and I'm a Captain America fan. Something isnt RIGHT and now I want to know what it is. Is this the ramification of how he got rejuvinated via Kobik aka The Cosmic Cube? PROBABLY.
But the question I ask is how is this going to play out. It's literally the first chapter of a multipart story. Is it fair to drop a book after reading the first chapter? Sure, but youre not even close to being actually informed about the whole story.
People reacted the SAME EXACT WAY when Brubaker brought back Bucky as Winter Soldier or when Bendis killed of Peter Parker and gave us Miles Morales or when Dan Slott had Otto Octavius take possession of Peter Parker's body, or when Cap became NOMAD or CAP WOLF or...
I mean really, have people declaring this THE WORST THING EVER!!!! about this actually READ A SUPERHERO COMIC?
Yeah, that might be true, but it does not take away it's stupid. Maybe they change it back (they most definitely will, since EVERYONE hates this) but this still is horrid and even insulting thing to do.It's at least theoretically possible there's some clever story arc behind this. I'd be surprised if the actual intent is to really have Cap be and have been all along a Hydra agent.
How well they can pull it off is another question entirely.
Edit: What else has this Nick Spencer guy done? The name isn't familiar.
I have faith in Nick Spenser.
He's responsible for SUPERIOR FOES OF SPIDER-MAN (which was pretty hilarious at times) MORNING GLORIES (which his creator owned work over at image) and more recently THE FIX (another creator owned book at Image about two of the most hilariously corrupt cops youre ever going to meet.) I think that he also writes ANT MAN for Marvel but I dont know much about that.
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Oh come on.
Mashable? You're taking cues from mashable?
Please.
Just read the comic. Everything BEFORE the spoiler, not just a hastily written article by some hack. Let the storyline play out.
God.
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So...decades of him foiling their plans, injuring/killing/imprisoning their operatives and leaders, and nearly wiping them out has all been a ruse for...what, exactly? This is the dumbest plot twist I can imagine.
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I'm not even someone who's followed Captain America but this seems like a big ball of WTF to me.
Not so much "He's evil now", that happens all the time. But "He is AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN evil"?
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*agrees with Spectrevk* This is dumb. I will still read more Steve Rogers, but Nick better be building to something better REALLY soon.
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A Marvel Editor Explains How Captain America Was a Hydra Agent All Along
Gizmodo article goes into it a bit more
So, there's a bit more background on the story.
Do they probably have some long-term scheme in mind? Possibly. Although I really don't trust most comic book writers these days to have any plan other than controversy to boost sales.
Is this just some cheap ass stunt? Possibly. That'd be my guess, but only because I really can't conceive of anyone saying "Hey! Let's make Steve Rogers work for the evil Hydra!" and then thinking it was a really good idea (at least not without the benefit of some serious drugs).
Either way, it doesn't mean I can't think it's any less poorly done. Nor do I wish to spend money on it. Because, even if it is a stunt, even if they do retcon it out of existence later on, even if they do something that makes sense in the long run - just going down that road seems like poor storytelling to me. A cheap way to generate controversy and get either a rise in ticket sales, or at least get everyone talking about it.
Some folks may be willing and happy to take whatever the writers give them and be happy about it ("Thank you, sir! May I have another?"). I've got better uses for that time and money.
Well since I'm not spending money I'll keep following Spencer's work. But like every, include the zombie, this is a stupid waste of time. But at least it's just my time I'm wasting.
*plans on surviving the zombie apocalypse by traveling to Faerun*
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Lord Fyre,
It seems that way for Marvel in terms of this stunt. DC...I think is actually trying to pick itself back up. I could be wrong though.
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.....just no
Even if this turns out to be the best written comic story ever, I can't put money behind this idea.
It's just wrong.....just fundamentally wrong on so many levels
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Well since I'm not spending money I'll keep following Spencer's work. But like every, include the zombie, this is a stupid waste of time. But at least it's just my time I'm wasting.
Until this little manufactured controversy, I had no idea who Nick Spencer was. So I can at least be grateful this has gotten me to do a bit of research on him. Which will end up saving me more money, since I was considering starting to collect Ant-man. Since he writes it, however, I'll probably skip it.
The Red Skull still has Professor Xavier's telepathic powers. Cap has probably been brainwashed.
Hasn't even HYDRA tried to distance themselves from the Red Skull?
Norman,
No clue since HYDRA changes leadership about as often I put on new socks.
*admits to wearing the same pair of socks for like 2-3 days*
Aber,
ACTUALLY, his Ant-man ISN'T that bad. Mostly because Scott Lang is much easier to swallow in terms of him being seen as less of a "super hero" and more of "guy that talks to ants, has a rocky relationship with many different people, and his daughter Cassie still remains the coolest Young Avenger after Kate Bishop."
"This seemingly standard Captain America title will reveal that Steve Rogers will be, and always has been, a member of Hydra and will now be presented as the most covert undercover operative of the Marvel Universe who is trying to take it down from within."
Boring. The spoiler's grammar tells us the actual story.
"take it down from within"
'it' being Hydra. (The only other possible contender for 'it' is the Marvel Universe itself... which doesn't even make sense)
So basically in a hackneyed plot of wacky hijinks and lies, Cap pretends to be all 'Hail Hydra' an effort to take Hydra down and for like an issue and a half it will be semi-convincing and some lackeys will believe it long enough from him to have an opportunity to do something that will 'take out' Hydra until the next time they get written into the story in a new form.
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Aber,
ACTUALLY, his Ant-man ISN'T that bad. Mostly because Scott Lang is much easier to swallow in terms of him being seen as less of a "super hero" and more of "guy that talks to ants, has a rocky relationship with many different people, and his daughter Cassie still remains the coolest Young Avenger after Kate Bishop."
I've no doubt his Antman is probably pretty decent, but from what I've read of Spencer he's very much into lefty politics and injecting that into the comics he writes. And since that kind of politics seems to me to be all about hating people like me, I'll avoid it when I can. I get enough it from TV/movies and this website.
*is kind of a lefty* But you should meet my brother. He's the truly Bolshevik in our family.
As far as I know there wasn't much "injecting" of politics about having a hench app or Cassie Lang getting her heart ripped out.
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.....just no
Even if this turns out to be the best written comic story ever, I can't put money behind this idea.
It's just wrong.....just fundamentally wrong on so many levels
Precisely.
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*is kind of a lefty* But you should meet my brother. He's the truly Bolshevik in our family.
No thanks, I already had one of those in my life. Not a family member, just a good friend I eventually realized wasn't worth the time.
As far as I know there wasn't much "injecting" of politics about having a hench app or Cassie Lang getting her heart ripped out.
I hadn't heard about it in Antman, but it'd probably only be a matter of time. Besides, this way I don't have to waste any time hunting down back issues (my comic store only has the last 2 or 3).
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Zombie -A,
That's what digital comics are for! :)
Spiral,
It is a bad idea, but it's far from the worst idea I've heard. It's just the wrong idea to bring back Steve Rogers after you a) aged him and took away his Super Soldier formula, b) then gave the SHIELD and name to one of his close allies, c) THEN used cosmic magic to bring him back in a younger body because...reasons!
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I am so tired of comic book editors forcing b*%$@*@@ wham episodes that f%@# over good characters just for the sake of trying to sell a few more issues.
Good writing sells comics. Good art sells comics. Good characters sell comics.
A good writer does not f*!* over beloved properties just for the sake of the outrage and publicity.
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Tell that to Dan Didio, Doomed...
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I am so tired of comic book editors forcing b&&*%%&@ wham episodes that f@!# over good characters just for the sake of trying to sell a few more issues.
Good writing sells comics. Good art sells comics. Good characters sell comics.
A good writer does not f#!# over beloved properties just for the sake of the outrage and publicity.
might backfire this time. Negative publicity seems pretty high on this
Grey,
One hopes so but I have no idea since they haven't walked back on the whole Fanastic Four no longer having a title. Or why they are making mutants go extinct. AGAIN.
Or why they are making mutants go extinct. AGAIN.
Actually, a serious reduction in the mutant population is one thing I agree with. There's just too damn many of them.
The F4, I don't really care about. They have some great associated characters, but I've never given a damn about the actual team itself. For my money, they are just the canvas for Doctor Doom stories.
Now I KNOW you're the real Norman Osborn! :p ;)
Well I guess I care about FF4 since I like Franklin Richards and Valeria is hilarious.
Plus the Future Foundation was kind of neat.
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A Marvel Editor Explains How Captain America Was a Hydra Agent All Along
Gizmodo article goes into it a bit more
So, there's a bit more background on the story.
Do they probably have some long-term scheme in mind? Possibly. Although I really don't trust most comic book writers these days to have any plan other than controversy to boost sales.
Is this just some cheap ass stunt? Possibly. That'd be my guess, but only because I really can't conceive of anyone saying "Hey! Let's make Steve Rogers work for the evil Hydra!" and then thinking it was a really good idea (at least not without the benefit of some serious drugs).
Either way, it doesn't mean I can't think it's any less poorly done. Nor do I wish to spend money on it. Because, even if it is a stunt, even if they do retcon it out of existence later on, even if they do something that makes sense in the long run - just going down that road seems like poor storytelling to me. A cheap way to generate controversy and get either a rise in ticket sales, or at least get everyone talking about it.
Some folks may be willing and happy to take whatever the writers give them and be happy about it ("Thank you, sir! May I have another?"). I've got better uses for that time and money.
Nonsensical "shocking" plotlines like this remind me why I stopped reading Marvel Comics in the first place. How bad are the sales if this is what they're doing to drum up interest with phony 'controversy'?
And when will we get the plotline about how Spidey has been making money on the side for years now by dealing drugs?
Tell that to Dan Didio, Doomed...
Hence my "race to the bottom" comment above.
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Controversial developments like Captain America losing his super soldier powers or dying, Spider-man losing Mary Jane and Cyclops becoming a fanatical-terrorist are one thing...
Pissing all over years of history and background and the very essence of the character is something else altogether.
As far as idiot moves made by Marvel go, this exceeds even One More Day in stupidity.
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Controversial developments like Captain America losing his super soldier powers or dying, Spider-man losing Mary Jane and Cyclops becoming a fanatical-terrorist are one thing...
Pissing all over years of history and background and the very essence of the character is something else altogether.
As far as idiot moves made by Marvel go, this exceeds even One More Day in stupidity.
I've got to reserve judgement on that. The mind boggles at the idea of a story more offensive the One More Day.
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Yeah, it's hard to choose between a paragon of good having been a super Nazi for the past 75 years, or making deals with Satan.
I'd lean toward "career Nazi" being worse, myself.
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I've got to reserve judgement on that. The mind boggles at the idea of a story more offensive the One More Day.Controversial developments like Captain America losing his super soldier powers or dying, Spider-man losing Mary Jane and Cyclops becoming a fanatical-terrorist are one thing...
Pissing all over years of history and background and the very essence of the character is something else altogether.
As far as idiot moves made by Marvel go, this exceeds even One More Day in stupidity.
I maintain the position despite being more of a Spidey fan than a Cap fan (been a Spidey fan since I was a kid and is still my favourite).
But at least One More Day didn't piss on the core of the character or the history. Spidey's past still happened, and though it became undone, it was for a reason that I don't like, but can still sorta accept. Peter was in a very emotional state and people make mistakes under such circumstances. Spidey's core character did not change.
This however pisses all over everything that made Captain America Captain friggin America (and I'm not even American).
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And when will we get the plotline about how Spidey has been making money on the side for years now by dealing drugs?
Or the story of how the Punisher's family is not only still alive, but his wife is a major crime boss and the kids are her chief enforcers.
I also hear that Thor is the one who is actually the son of giants. Loki is the true son of Odin.
And don't you know, it was the Hulk who was the original. The Gamma bomb turned him into Bruce Banner.