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Interesting point. I wonder if those writers gave interviews stating this was the real Cap. Not brainwashing, or a clone, or a shapeshifter, etc.It's not like this hasn't been done before...
Or even EARLIER by Jack Kirby HIMSELF HERE
It really, really bothers me that people are taking this so seriously.
This s&@~ has been done before.
And will be done again.
This is marvel we're talking about.
There are some who probably are taking this a bit too seriously. Me - I'm just happy to have an issue to discuss. Believe it or not, I like discussing comic book stuff. And this is one of the better places I can do that. Most folks here are at least reasonable about comics.
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I like the marvel stuff so we will see what they come up with. I'm nervous now...Near as I can tell, both of those are based on the original toy IP, with no rights to any of the Marvel comics stuff.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
Indeed. But I don't think it's back just yet. There was a free comic book day things, but the regular series comes out in June or July, methinks.
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I'm one of those annoying people who would rather read a comic by a writer/artist I like than a comic about any specific character.
Whoa, this was almost enough to make me want to put you on my People to Not Eat list!
I'm partially the same way. Sometimes I go by the writer/artist, sometimes I go by the character. More and more, I do find that I'll drop a character I love if the writing isn't good enough - like the most recent Doctor Strange. Art doesn't bother me as much.
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There are some who probably are taking this a bit too seriously. Me - I'm just happy to have an issue to discuss. Believe it or not, I like discussing comic book stuff. And this is one of the better places I can do that. Most folks here are at least reasonable about comics.Interesting point. I wonder if those writers gave interviews stating this was the real Cap. Not brainwashing, or a clone, or a shapeshifter, etc.It's not like this hasn't been done before...
Or even EARLIER by Jack Kirby HIMSELF HERE
It really, really bothers me that people are taking this so seriously.
This s&@~ has been done before.
And will be done again.
This is marvel we're talking about.
No we're not! You take that back right now! Gwaaaahhhh!
*coughs
Or not, whatever.
I prefer a good "Graaaar" myself.
I follow characters unless something incredibly stupid happens or they lose the title role, appear less or whathaveyou. I am willing to give new characters a chance.
I really like the most recent Mr. Terrific. I will be getting a back tattoo like he has soon. I wish I could get the jacket.
Indeed. But I don't think it's back just yet. There was a free comic book day things, but the regular series comes out in June or July, methinks.I like the marvel stuff so we will see what they come up with. I'm nervous now...Near as I can tell, both of those are based on the original toy IP, with no rights to any of the Marvel comics stuff.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
ROM is now part of Hasbro's new shared universe which also includes Micronauts, G.I. Joe, Transformers, Visionairies, and M.A.S.K. The new Transformers movie was announced as being Transformers: The Last Knight, which has some speculating {backs up dumptruck of salt} that it will include ROM.
I'm one of those annoying people who would rather read a comic by a writer/artist I like than a comic about any specific character.Whoa, this was almost enough to make me want to put you on my People to Not Eat list!
I'm partially the same way. Sometimes I go by the writer/artist, sometimes I go by the character. More and more, I do find that I'll drop a character I love if the writing isn't good enough - like the most recent Doctor Strange. Art doesn't bother me as much.
But only almost, huh? Fine, I'll just make an effort to chewed on slightly, but not to such an extent that I can't come back as a zombie myself. Hey, wait, a Marvel Zombie!
Obviously, this won't stick... But it's still infuriating to see beloved characters go through these gimmicky "story arcs" made for the sake of shock value.
This is as bad as "Death of Superman" and "Knightfall" when it comes to desperate publicity stunts.
Interesting point. I wonder if those writers gave interviews stating this was the real Cap. Not brainwashing, or a clone, or a shapeshifter, etc.It's not like this hasn't been done before...
Or even EARLIER by Jack Kirby HIMSELF HERE
Marvel also said that Ben Reilly was the real true Spider-Man, that Bruce Banner would never be the Hulk again, that Thor was dead forever as of Ragnarok, and so on.
They also spent a lot of time and money trying to convince people that the Sentry had actually been created by Stan Lee and forgotten about in the 1960s instead of being something that Paul Jenkins pulled out of his butt circa 2000.
Marvel lies to sell comics. A lot. Anybody who buys into something their editorial or marketing department says does so at their own risk.
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Obviously, this won't stick... But it's still infuriating to see beloved characters go through these gimmicky "story arcs" made for the sake of shock value.
This is as bad as "Death of Superman" and "Knightfall" when it comes to desperate publicity stunts.
While I think this particular gimmick falls flat, it's worth remembering that comics has always been a gimmick-driven industry. Misleading covers and cliffhanger endings have been a staple for well over half a century now.
Sometimes, those gimmicks are terrible. Other times, they turn out to be great. Bringing Bucky Barnes back as a brainwashed super soldier, for example, seems like a terrible gimmick. Under the skilled pen of Ed Brubaker, though, it turned into a really good story.
Well, look at Alan Moore's thing with Swamp Thing. It's sounded like a gimmick/twist, but it ended up validating the character.
. . .
Actually, I haven't read Swamp Thing in decades. Let me guess, during one of the last few reboots decided that, PSYCH, he was just Alec Holland (with human internal organs who happened to look like a pile of snot covered in vegetation) all along.
EDIT: Plus, Swamp Thing is DC, not Marvel; I fail.
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Well, look at Alan Moore's thing with Swamp Thing. It's sounded like a gimmick/twist, but it ended up validating the character.
. . .
Actually, I haven't read Swamp Thing in decades. Let me guess, during one of the last few reboots decided that, PSYCH, he was just Alec Holland (with human internal organs who happened to look like a pile of snot covered in vegetation) all along.
EDIT: Plus, Swamp Thing is DC, not Marvel; I fail.
Not quite
Alec was lined up to be the next Swamp Thing and died before they could change him so they made the double.
Later Alec got resurected (Zombie Green Lantern thing + New 52) and took his "rightful" place as champion of the Green but the Plant Double and all it's stories remained. In fact Alec even had to get help from the double at a couple of points.
Actually the 52Swamp Thing book was really good especially alongside Animal Man. Together they created this really good mythos of opposing aspects of nature and their champions. The Green, the Red and the Rot.
One of the few New52 things that was really worth getting
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You and me both. I cant wait to see if they start doing toys again because I want me a Rom figure post haste...Eh, I'm probably done with Marvel and DC for a while. I'm almost completely done with comics anyways, except for Rat Queens.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
Now all we need are Shogun Warriors
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Now all we need are Shogun WarriorsYou and me both. I cant wait to see if they start doing toys again because I want me a Rom figure post haste...Eh, I'm probably done with Marvel and DC for a while. I'm almost completely done with comics anyways, except for Rat Queens.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
ooooh no. We are not bringing that kind of exploitation back. You want daisetsujin 17, daimos, danguard ace, getter robo(g, I believe), gaiking, brave fencer raideen, voltes v, combattler v, grendizer or great mazinger, you get the manga like everyone else and make sure the original creator is not just recognized, but gets paid for their time.
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Now all we need are Shogun WarriorsYou and me both. I cant wait to see if they start doing toys again because I want me a Rom figure post haste...Eh, I'm probably done with Marvel and DC for a while. I'm almost completely done with comics anyways, except for Rat Queens.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
Huzzah!
Of course, a Sho'nuff action figure would be even more awesome.
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Now all we need are Shogun WarriorsYou and me both. I cant wait to see if they start doing toys again because I want me a Rom figure post haste...Eh, I'm probably done with Marvel and DC for a while. I'm almost completely done with comics anyways, except for Rat Queens.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
Huzzah!
Of course, a Sho'nuff action figure would be even more awesome.
no to shogun warriors.
Yes to sho'nuff.
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Bruce LEROY?!?!
I met him at Comic Con a few years ago.
All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
you gotta be kidding me. Ah well to each their own, I guess.
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All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
I actually enjoyed Knightfall and The Death of Superman. ~runs from the angry mob~
Catches bullets with his teeth?Bruce LEROY?!?!
I met him at Comic Con a few years ago.
that's the one.
I actually enjoyed Knightfall and The Death of Superman. ~runs from the angry mob~All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
I liked return of Superman more than death
and I really liked Grayson's time as Batman once they got rid of Azbat.
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I actually enjoyed Knightfall and The Death of Superman. ~runs from the angry mob~
While I didn't care for either storyline, one of them gave us Superboy/Conner Kent, so that's a huge silver lining for me.
That's probably the one thing I take away from these gimmicks. Cap gets booted from the role of Captain America? We get to see John Walker, the 'Super-Patriot,' trying (and mostly failing) to take up the shield, and eventually become USAgent, an interesting character in his own right.
I actually enjoyed Knightfall and The Death of Superman. ~runs from the angry mob~While I didn't care for either storyline, one of them gave us Superboy/Conner Kent, so that's a huge silver lining for me.
That's probably the one thing I take away from these gimmicks. Cap gets booted from the role of Captain America? We get to see John Walker, the 'Super-Patriot,' trying (and mostly failing) to take up the shield, and eventually become USAgent, an interesting character in his own right.
Loved the variant supermen, especially Superboy and Steel.
you gotta be kidding me. Ah well to each their own, I guess.All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
No I'm not kidding you. Like A-zombie said, we got ourselves a Superboy and for a while, a better opponent for Batman.
I am still waiting to see what happened with Cyclops.
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ooooh no. We are not bringing that kind of exploitation back. You want daisetsujin 17, daimos, danguard ace, getter robo(g, I believe), gaiking, brave fencer raideen, voltes v, combattler v, grendizer or great mazinger, you get the manga like everyone else and make sure the original creator is not just recognized, but gets paid for their time.Now all we need are Shogun WarriorsYou and me both. I cant wait to see if they start doing toys again because I want me a Rom figure post haste...Eh, I'm probably done with Marvel and DC for a while. I'm almost completely done with comics anyways, except for Rat Queens.Recently, however, I added the new Micronauts series from IDW, and I've got their new Rom: Space Knight series on my list.ROM IS BACK?!
I'm excited!
Speaking of Yuusha ("Brave") Reideen, there was a recent manga series, entitled God Bird, featuring Reideen. Ostensibly taking place some time after the conclusion of the anime series with characters, old and new/good and bad, plus there is also some guest appearance crossover with three other Super Robots: Daimos, Combattler V, and Voltes V and their respective anime series characters and villains making an appearance in just the first volume alone.
I am still waiting to see what happened with Cyclops.He's in a better place.
No matter *what* happened to him, he's in a better place. :)
I heard somewhere that Mr. Sinister had turned him into some kind of Terragen Zombie/Inhuman/Mutant hybrid
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Stan Lee chimes in on that shocking Captain America twist
A very diplomatic answer. I would expect nothing less from "The Man".
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Stan Lee chimes in on that shocking Captain America twist
A very diplomatic answer. I would expect nothing less from "The Man".
Yeah, Lee always has roughly the same answer to each movie or comic question that comes up. My favorite part though:
Le sigh. Hopefully, there will be a perfectly good explanation for that twisty development (fan theories point at the Cosmic Cube being responsible for all this), that it will be resolved quickly, and then we can all forget it ever happened.
lol
I am still waiting to see what happened with Cyclops.He's in a better place.
No matter *what* happened to him, he's in a better place. :)
I'm actually beginning to believe that based on this stunt and Civil War II.
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I'm watching people have meltdowns on Twitter and threaten Nick Spencer with violence.
I have no patience for fanboys who have been reading comics FOR DECADES and yet apparently have no idea how this particular brand of serialized fiction works.
Was this a surprise and shock when I read this this morning? Yes. Have I gone all "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!!" Nope. Because now I'm curious to see where this story is taking us and I'm a Captain America fan. Something isnt RIGHT and now I want to know what it is. Is this the ramification of how he got rejuvinated via Kobik aka The Cosmic Cube? PROBABLY.
But the question I ask is how is this going to play out. It's literally the first chapter of a multipart story. Is it fair to drop a book after reading the first chapter? Sure, but youre not even close to being actually informed about the whole story.
People reacted the SAME EXACT WAY when Brubaker brought back Bucky as Winter Soldier or when Bendis killed of Peter Parker and gave us Miles Morales or when Dan Slott had Otto Octavius take possession of Peter Parker's body, or when Cap became NOMAD or CAP WOLF or...
I mean really, have people declaring this THE WORST THING EVER!!!! about this actually READ A SUPERHERO COMIC?
And somehow, you just explained how comics went from being multimillion dollar sellers on every Gas station and store shelf, to selling less than 100 thousand copies.
You've explained the why's of how comics went from dominating, to things that almost no one but a few niche guys no one hangs out with reads.
You see, the movies try to hearken back to the good old days of comics prior to 2000 when the superheroes were the good guys and we didn't have these stupid plot twists (like OMD/BND) which went against every fiber of the character's moral compass and being for the past 4 decades (or more).
That's why the movies are doing so well, whilst the comic book writers can't seem to get their collective arse's out of the gutter and realize that their desire to try to put their stamp on something, is the very reason comicbooks have had such a drastic decline in readership.
It isn't really changing audiences...it's that the comics changed AWAY from their audience. Have characters true to who they used to be and are, instead of the stupid stuff that's been going on for the past decade, and they'd probably see a resurgence in popularity similar to how the movies are popular.
But, instead, they just don't get it.
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Nonsensical "shocking" plotlines like this remind me why I stopped reading Marvel Comics in the first place. How bad are the sales if this is what they're doing to drum up interest with phony 'controversy'?
And when will we get the plotline about how Spidey has been making money on the side for years now by dealing drugs?
The actual comic book sales have been bad for a while now.
From what I understand, comic books wanted to make themselves feel more exclusive and thought more people would buy them if they could feel like they were exclusive items, and that they would prop up the specialty stores that sold comic books. So they yanked them out of gas stations.
That was probably the first big misstep they made. Marvel had serious problems for a while, and DC wasn't doing much better.
Then, for some reason, they started to lose some of their big guns (was it because they couldn't afford them anymore, or they just wanted them out...I have NO idea).
Around 2000, they started a very drastic downward spiral. Down from the early to mid 90s of mega sales, and even down from the 70s and 80s, they were no longer selling a million plus copies of superman, or batman, or x-men.
Their circulatories were still above 100K at that point I think. However, people were very UNHAPPY with the artwork, the stories, and the writing, and sales continued to decline in most properties in the comicbooks.
Only a few of the tentpoles really remained selling (things like Spiderman, which probably was helped a LOT by the movies), Batman, and Superman barely kept circulation over 100K...or thereabouts by the mid Aughts (00s).
Everything else bottomed out, like really bottomed out. Beyond the tentpoles you were looking at 30K or less in sales.
And then, the bottom fell out. The tentpoles started selling less than 100K each.
The movies were coming out by then, and they were doing well, but for some reason, the comic books were not reflecting the movie sales.
There are various theories on why, but for some reason, the comicbook industry didn't change what they were doing since 2000, they doubled down on it. Now it always had to be some major event with some major change to the character. We got travesties like Brand New Day or One more Day, or Morrison killing off some key characters of the X-men (and though his run sold decently compared to other comics at the time, that about killed the X comics after he did that for a short while...or you could just say everyone lost interest after him).
Some are semi-successful and boot up the majority of sales over the 100K line for a while (though almost none have returned them to the sales of over a million each issue normally), but they seem to die down.
So, in a nutshell, sales are in the pooper.
Some think they keep the comicbooks going simply to keep the IP...because they don't generate the profits that are needed to even keep them going.
Instead, they are simply IP holders so they can make movies and TV shows which are the real money makers for the business these days.
Hey, remember when Steve Rogers gave up the mantle of Captain America to become Nomad, The Man Without A Country?
Having character stay true to who they used to be and are removes significant character development possibilities from their narrative.
I follow characters unless something incredibly stupid happens or they lose the title role, appear less or whathaveyou. I am willing to give new characters a chance.
I really like the most recent Mr. Terrific. I will be getting a back tattoo like he has soon. I wish I could get the jacket.
Personally it sounds like an awesome twist at the end of that comic, but one that would only have been a two or three issue twist in the old days.
I personally won't be reading it though, but it's not because it's offending me. I don't really collect comicbooks anymore...or if and when I do, if it's more current, it's in trade paperbacks when everything has been said and done rather than the comic book itself.
I actually enjoyed Knightfall and The Death of Superman. ~runs from the angry mob~All I know is much of the Internet made some great memes thanks to this.
Plus the fact I think this gimmick is worse than most. Knightfall and Death of Superman at least had some impact.
I enjoyed Knightfall and Knightrise as well. I think I enjoyed Prodigal far more though. I really like reading Dick as the true heir to the Batman, but in the end, only Bruce is Batman.
I also really liked Death of Superman, but I probably liked the Return of Superman more.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hey, remember when Steve Rogers gave up the mantle of Captain America to become Nomad, The Man Without A Country?
Having character stay true to who they used to be and are removes significant character development possibilities from their narrative.
actually that's the opposite. The Nomad storyline as well as the 'Captain/John Walker' storyline both showed that Steve Rogers and the ideal he represnts, not the name, is what Captain America is.
This is more akin to finding out that Daredevil is/was/will be a serial killer, or that Superman has always been plotting to crack the world in half and kill humanity.
Actually, or in your opinion?
It's still jarring to me. I know it's comics. I know it's a fictional character. But Captain America following Hydra all this time...just boggles me.
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I just wish, at the very least, they weren't so damn wishy-washy.
If you're going to f%~@ with a character, make it have some kind of lasting effect. Don't have it be forgotten 6 months later and all's forgiven.
Even if they undo the Hydra-ing, the least they could do is have it have shattered Cap's image for the foreseeable future.
But I don't see that happening. The moment he snaps back to good, the only person who'll ever call him out on it is some fringe lunatic whose parents were killed by Cap's actions or something, he'll be defeated before he can bomb a schoolbus full of baby orphans and eat their souls or some s!%&, and everything will be right as rain.
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If you're going to f&$* with a character, make it have some kind of lasting effect. Don't have it be forgotten 6 months later and all's forgiven.
In my 30-ish years of collecting, if there's one thing I've learned about comic book writers, it's that they can NEVER leave well enough alone. Perfect example is the resurrection of Barry Allen. He was dead for something like 2 decades, and Wally was a fairly successful Flash, and then they brought the one back and tossed the other away.
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Ah, the great comic book struggle - the fight between creative license and conserving a franchise character.
Comic companies are loathe to rock the boat with a successful franchise. Ben Parker will stay dead, even if the rest of the Marvel universe treats death like a revolving door. Comic writers wish to go wherever they want, sometimes leading to great storylines, and sometimes crashing to the ground. The only time such storylines stick is when fans love it, or when there is some business plan by the comic owners to make it stick (such as making sure Wolverine stays dead in the comics until the cinematic rights to the character reverts to Marvel/Disney).
Judging by fan reaction, the Cap storyline won't stick. It would make a great running joke for a Bob, agent of hydra storyline.