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Just so we're not splitting hairs whilst agreeing on the general hairstyle, and enemy's intentions notwithstanding, are we all agreeing that the decision to cast EFS should be made whilst enemy is casting the spell, which thus leaves the option open for the enemy caster to simply choose another target when he completes the spell? Or is a contrary view being proposed?Agreed with using EFS during the casting. The rules are clear about when that decision is actually made even if myself and others weren't properly describing this previously.
Ya know, this kind of splitting hairs about immediate actions, is a great argument for just saving everyone the hassle by removing the problem...I hear ya... let's ban immediate actions.
Erm the rules aren't clear. That's actually why there needs to be a judgement at each table about it. Unless you can cite a rule that states otherwise?
But, please, let's not throw 'let's bans' around just because a ruling doesn't exist yet. It is better to get a ruling then to ban because 'ruling is hard *pouty face*'.
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Um...I'm sorry what? I would absolutely object to that.I choose for my flat plane to have a height of 1 inch, a length of 30 ft. and a width of 10 ft.
You can't. It is in segments of 10x10 areas, which must be vertical and are 2D. They are flat squares. Not cubes. You can't curve or fold the wall either.
Now, in space where there is no true 'vertical' you can do make a bridge. Not the one you described though. But on a planet you are stuck.
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This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
Opinions will probably vary about whether or not swift actions or free actions should be included in the list of actions an immediate action can interrupt, but I think my proposed rule might be a good starting point. This would not only clarify what EFS can or cannot do, but also provide clarity on what immediate actions in general can or cannot do, and I think as immediate actions become more and more common, such a clarification would be immensely helpful moving forward.
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I hear ya... let's ban immediate actions.Erm the rules aren't clear. That's actually why there needs to be a judgement at each table about it. Unless you can cite a rule that states otherwise?
But, please, let's not throw 'let's bans' around just because a ruling doesn't exist yet. It is better to get a ruling then to ban because 'ruling is hard *pouty face*'.
I did cite the rule from casting a spell and agreed with Green.
As for the other thing was /s.
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This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
Erm, or you just say it works like a readied action without a ready action and without adding a bunch of stuff that will just give everyone a headache at the table.
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This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
Opinions will probably vary about whether or not swift actions or free actions should be included in the list of actions an immediate action can interrupt, but I think my proposed rule might be a good starting point.
I think it is very unlikely we will get clarification on immediate actions here. It probably isn't worth the time even discussing it.
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Erm, or you just say it works like a readied action without a ready action and without adding a bunch of stuff that will just give everyone a headache at the table.This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
If you know an enemy caster is going to cast fireball (perhaps because he is a sorcerer who uses is known to use that spell frequently), can you ready an action to cast a blast barrier spell in front of him as his fireball leaves his fingertips?
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I hear ya... let's ban immediate actions.Erm the rules aren't clear. That's actually why there needs to be a judgement at each table about it. Unless you can cite a rule that states otherwise?
But, please, let's not throw 'let's bans' around just because a ruling doesn't exist yet. It is better to get a ruling then to ban because 'ruling is hard *pouty face*'.
I did cite the rule from casting a spell and agreed with Green.
As for the other thing was /s.
Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about the decision to use EFS and when immediate actions happen, not the targeting decision.
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If you know an enemy caster is going to cast fireball (perhaps because he is a sorcerer who uses is known to use that spell frequently), can you ready an action to cast a blast barrier spell in front of him as his fireball leaves his fingertips?Erm, or you just say it works like a readied action without a ready action and without adding a bunch of stuff that will just give everyone a headache at the table.This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
Do you not know how the Ready action system works? Instead of asking me I suggest you read the rules for that.
Technically speaking, if you know someone is going to cast fireball you can have one party member ready to cast telekinetic charge on you, and then you ready for when you reach the sorcerer to cast Resilient Sphere on him. Which has the potential of locking him inside of a force sphere and limiting his target range to his feet.
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Do you not know how the Ready action system works? Instead of asking me I suggest you read the rules for that.If you know an enemy caster is going to cast fireball (perhaps because he is a sorcerer who uses is known to use that spell frequently), can you ready an action to cast a blast barrier spell in front of him as his fireball leaves his fingertips?Erm, or you just say it works like a readied action without a ready action and without adding a bunch of stuff that will just give everyone a headache at the table.This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
I know how it works. There is no need for snark.
The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
The questions raised about immediate actions could very well apply to the the notion of "continues his actions". Does he need to complete the same action? Can he change his action or his target or both? I have experienced some table variation on this.
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Do you not know how the Ready action system works? Instead of asking me I suggest you read the rules for that.If you know an enemy caster is going to cast fireball (perhaps because he is a sorcerer who uses is known to use that spell frequently), can you ready an action to cast a blast barrier spell in front of him as his fireball leaves his fingertips?Erm, or you just say it works like a readied action without a ready action and without adding a bunch of stuff that will just give everyone a headache at the table.This whole thing about immediate actions is actually quite similar to counters (or 'instants') in MTG. A very simple way to solve the whole problem would be to make a clarification about what it can or cannot do.
I propose:
"An immediate action can be taken during another character's move, standard or full-round action. It takes effect before the effect of that action. It cannot be cast once the action is completed and causes an effect. The exception to this is if an action causes multiple consecutive effects, such as a full attack action or a charge. In these cases, an immediate action can be taken between attacks in a full round action, or between the movement and the attack in a charge. Unless otherwise stated, an immediate action cannot be used to interrupt an attack roll."
I know how it works. There is no need for snark.
The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.The questions raised about immediate actions could very well apply to the the notion of "continues his actions". Does he need to complete the same action? Can he change his action or his target or both? I have experienced some...
You will always experience table variation. Even on definite can not be read in any other way rules... because for sure some fool is going to read it another way. You know the old saying, 'You can't make anything foolproof, they will just make better fools'.
But if you know how it works, and you understand the very basics of causality... then it's actually fairly simple. If you know someone is going to cast fireball you can say "i ready an action to do x to protect myself if so and so casts a fireball". When they attempt to cast fireball, you do X first and then their fireball happens.
Now, the fact that he is casting fireball can't change. He is already doing that when you resolve your action. But he doesn't pick a target until the spell actually is finished casting. So he can Spellcraft your casting and know to cast his fireball elsewhere and be able to do so.
The proof is the fact that you had to spellcraft to know he was casting fireball. He had to begin to perform an action for you to know to perform yours. Readied actions aren't time traveling. They just resolve first. Its imperfect and leads to odd cases. But it is what we have.
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You still run into the same question.
Does the wizard need to go through with the fireball? Can he change his target? If you drop a resilient sphere on the wizard as a readied action that triggers from his casting his spell, does he need to complete his fireball and smash it against the resilient sphere, thereby roasting himself? Can he terminate the action? Or if you cast the sphere on yourself, can the wizard then choose a new target area? These are all things that can arise even in a core game. Fireball, resilient sphere, readied action, all of that is in the CRB.
Just saying that immediate actions function like readied actions doesn't resolve the issue.
By the way, the readied resilient sphere vs fireball scenario was exactly what happened in a game a few years ago. It's more than just hypothetical. We spent a good deal of time discussing it before the GM decided to draw on MTG rulings to resolve it. That's where I got the idea from.
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You are stepping out of the abstraction to put your idea of reality into the game. Not really a bad idea sometimes. But that is what you are doing. And not taking all the variables into the equation, I might add.
A vague handwave of double secret probation things you are not taking into account" but you can't bother to enumerate is not an argument.
And what if you only fall 50 feet?
10 discrete units of things to react to.
And the fireball has to travel 100 feet?
Fireball is something I'd consider the shield working on. Definitely not a targeting spell though.
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
If you have not finished casting the spell you don't have to select your target. if you have finished casting the spell it is in effect. There is no in between time hinted at in the game except in a few unique cases or when you're chucking rays.
The system works on a <initiate action> <resolve action> <initiate action> basis. Sometimes you can react and resolve your action before theirs resolves.
It does not when it comes to interrupting actions. Then its more or less lifo (last in first out) If your charge draws an AOO on the pikeman, you charge first , the aoo resolves , because once that happens you may not be around to charge.
You are stepping out of the abstraction to put your idea of reality into the game.
That reality is fully there because things like featherfall and snapleaf exist.
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You still run into the same question.
Does the wizard need to go through with the fireball? Can he change his target? If you drop a resilient sphere on the wizard as a readied action that triggers from his casting his spell, does he need to complete his fireball and smash it against the resilient sphere, thereby roasting himself? Can he terminate the action? Or if you cast the sphere on yourself, can the wizard then choose a new target? These are all things that can arise even in a core game.
As for targeting... he doesn't pick a target till he has completed casting. If you interrupt his casting and perform an action first... then his casting is obviously not completed. And when your action is complete he may then pick his target as his action resolves.
Allowing immediate actions to function like readied actions would also grant "Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." And since he can not longer target what he wished to target then his action can be stopped. But that is going to be dependent on the GM.
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"Fireball is something I'd consider the shield working on. Definitely not a targeting spell though.
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
If you have not finished casting the spell you don't have to select your target. if you have finished casting the spell it is in effect. There is no in between time hinted at in the game except in a few unique cases or when you're chucking rays. "
You are assuming rays take time to land? Or that fireballs are slow? You are assuming a lot here with your time tables. In a highly abstracted system. A swing of a sword takes how long? Or an arrow takes how long to land? How fast does someone fall? How long does a targeted spell take from starting of casting to landing?
Your argument is turning straight into a homebrew. You may want to look to that.
"It does not when it comes to interrupting actions. Then its more or less lifo (last in first out) If your charge draws an AOO on the pikeman, you charge first , the aoo resolves , because once that happens you may not be around to charge. "
I covered that even in the part you quoted. Interrupting actions resolve before the interrupted actions."That reality is fully there because things like featherfall and snapleaf exist. "
Specifically your idea of reality? I don't think so. An idea. But not yours. You are dictating your homebrew to others as fact of the base game. Seriously, you may want to look to that.
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You still run into the same question.
Does the wizard need to go through with the fireball? Can he change his target? If you drop a resilient sphere on the wizard as a readied action that triggers from his casting his spell, does he need to complete his fireball and smash it against the resilient sphere, thereby roasting himself? Can he terminate the action? Or if you cast the sphere on yourself, can the wizard then choose a new target? These are all things that can arise even in a core game.
As for targeting... he doesn't pick a target till he has completed casting. If you interrupt his casting and perform an action first... then his casting is obviously not completed. And when your action is complete he may then pick his target as his action resolves.
Allowing immediate actions to function like readied actions would also grant "Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." And since he can not longer target what he wished to target then his action can be stopped.
And what if the player specifies the triggering condition as "a fireball leaves the hand of that wizard" with the intention to trap the wizard with his own fireball? We go back to the question of whether or not you can interrupt the effect of an action, as opposed to the action itself. Some would argue otherwise, that if they set the trigger as the result of the action rather than the action itself, they can lock the target into completing the action with its intended target but interrupt the effect, in this case being the fireball in mid-flight. I would say no, and I think you would too. But until that is made as a rules clarification, it is a houserule. I house rule my gaming group implemented, but a house rule nonetheless
A clarification on what you can or cannot interrupt is I think a useful clarification to make.
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You still run into the same question.
Does the wizard need to go through with the fireball? Can he change his target? If you drop a resilient sphere on the wizard as a readied action that triggers from his casting his spell, does he need to complete his fireball and smash it against the resilient sphere, thereby roasting himself? Can he terminate the action? Or if you cast the sphere on yourself, can the wizard then choose a new target? These are all things that can arise even in a core game.
As for targeting... he doesn't pick a target till he has completed casting. If you interrupt his casting and perform an action first... then his casting is obviously not completed. And when your action is complete he may then pick his target as his action resolves.
Allowing immediate actions to function like readied actions would also grant "Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." And since he can not longer target what he wished to target then his action can be stopped.
And what if the player specifies the triggering condition as "a fireball leaves the hand of that wizard" with the intention to trap the wizard with his own fireball? We go back to the question of whether or not you can interrupt the effect of an action. I would say no, and I think you would too. Some would argue otherwise, that if they set the trigger as the result of the action rather than the action itself, they can lock the target into completing the action with its intended target but interrupt the effect, in this case being the fireball in mid-flight.
A clarification on what you can or cannot interrupt is I think a useful clarification to make.
Then that is up to the GM and his application of the rule of cool. But I should remind you that
But does this answer your question about sudden barriers appearing in the flight path of the fireballs?
"A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. "
And you can 'interrupt' anything. Your action happens before the triggering event. And just hope your action is enough to prevent the event from being able to happen or it is going to happen.
You may pick any event you like. But if he doesn't cast fireball and you readied an action that specific... you won't get your action.
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I know how fireballs work. In this case, the player was attempting to capitalse on that precise aspect of fireball to catch the enemy mage in his own fireball, by setting his trigger as the fireball leaving his finger (as opposed to the casting of the spell).
Basically, some would argue that you can only interrupt an action (the casting of the spell as a standard action), not the effect of an action (a fireball in mid-flight). And I stand corrected. Apparently we would disagree on this issue. I would think a player can't interrupt the fireball in mid-flight, whilst you appear to think a player can. Both I propose are possible interpretations of the rules. Hence why I proposed a clarification.
And I think where a GM stands on this question would also shape his or her view of whether or not EFS is overpowered. If you can't interrupt a spell in mid-flight or put up an EFS as a ray is being fired at you (or worst, after seeing that the attack roll exceeds your touch AC), if you need to decide whether or not to put up your EFS as a spell is being cast without knowing the eventual target, then this spell would I think be just fine for a 4th level spell.
The difficulty with Emergency Force Sphere is that the spell is just too powerful for a fourth level spell. If we examine it next to Resilient Sphere we can see that it is many ways inferior to this spell. It cannot be used on others or offensively. It is also only a hemisphere and weaker in terms of hit points etc. However when you consider that it can be cast as an immediate action this changes the dynamics of the spell entirely. A caster can cast Resilient Sphere as a swift action with metamagic as an 8th level spell (Swift Resilient Sphere). Even if we bake in a discount for the weaker spell (say level 3) and only count the immediate action casting as a 3 level enhancement (too generous I know) we are still looking at a 6th level spell. This would put it on par with the excellent Cold Ice Strike or a Contingency spell.
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I've had my seeker level Mage use it 3 times.. 2 triggered by contingency.
It's handy but not all powerful. I have seen at least one player get EATEN because he forgot it was a dome. (Burrower came up from underneath and got him).
In 2 of the 3 times I've used it.. it's bit me in the butt. (Cut me off from healing, and/or kept me from using spells with Line of Effect.. )
I have (since the 2nd use) considered it very much a double edge sword.
Yes, it is a very very handy 'Got out of jail' card when you got critters whose melee attack is nearly equal to your AC (In my case.. a nice healthy 23-28 depending on buffs). It also completely cuts you off from about 80% of your party contributions and almost ALL your healing options. (Shield Other and Life link are it I think)
And being stuck in the middle of 2 very potent golems pounding on it for 20-30 points a hit (2/round each) while the rest of the party is occupied brings home a LOT of points to it being NOT the 'perfect' escape method.
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The difficulty with Emergency Force Sphere is that the spell is just too powerful for a fourth level spell. If we examine it next to Resilient Sphere we can see that it is many ways inferior to this spell. It cannot be used on others or offensively. It is also only a hemisphere and weaker in terms of hit points etc. However when you consider that it can be cast as an immediate action this changes the dynamics of the spell entirely. A caster can cast Resilient Sphere as a swift action with metamagic as an 8th level spell (Swift Resilient Sphere). Even if we bake in a discount for the weaker spell (say level 3) and only count the immediate action casting as a 3 level enhancement (too generous I know) we are still looking at a 6th level spell. This would put it on par with the excellent Cold Ice Strike or a Contingency spell.
You are overestimating the value of the immediate action vs the ability to be offensive. Also, an immediate action is only as valuable as your character's insight into the goings-on around him and what your GMs view of how immediate actions work is. And as well... sure it is fantastic versus an AOE. But what if the enemy is casting Phantasmal Killer? Do you EFS or hope the enemy isn't going to target you?
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I know that the range touch attack is its own separate action that can provoke its own attack of opportunity in addition to casting the spell and I also know that people that have nothing to offer but ad hom after ad hom have nothing to add. Good day.
Your argument is turning straight into a homebrew. You may want to look to that.
You are assuming rays take time to land?
And that validates any of your other statements how? As that doesn't say how long it takes either.
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Get rid of it. Knew it was broken the moment I read it in 2009. As is Burning Disarm on the previous page, just not quite as egregiously. It should be a 9th level spell ("Immediate Spell" couldn't be less than a +5 level metamagic feat).
<sarcasm>Okay. Let's throw featherfall and Stone Shield up as 9th level spells too. </sarcasm>
And I really don't think 1d4-5d4 damage is OP. It could maybe be interesting with a bunch of metamagics thrown on. But even then with the raised spell level you are better off casting fireball and hitting all your enemies. You'll do more damage and can actually affecting things that don't have metal weapons.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Seems like every week we have a "please ban this" thread.
Is it just me? I don't see actual games turn into arguments about material that should be banned much?
The only two subjects I even remember being an issue are blood money and simulacrum. One is banned now. The other requires level 11 or higher and benefited from blood money.
Do people really have games where the players are hating on other players options when it doesn't turn out someone is reading the rule incorrectly?
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have.
Which weakness are we talking about?
I for one like the spell. It makes combat more dynamic. It gives players more options. Instead of just cyclically going through initiative it gives the option to interrupt the flow. I like dynamic combats. Sure it is powerfully defensive but it comes at a high cost of "usually" taking up your standard to dismiss or teleport out of.
I wish there were more spell like it. With occult adventures we got to see a few more immediate action defense spells.
Before we go banning this spell, I would like to see more similar (if slightly less powerful) legal options to replace it.
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I'm unclear why the EFS has to happen before the target of the spell has been chosen.
You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.
This isn't the "Casting" part of the spell. When the "Effect" stage has happened it is too late to do anything. You are making your saving throw (if any) and the spell is occurring.
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I'm unclear why the EFS has to happen before the target of the spell has been chosen.You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.
This isn't the "Casting" part of the spell. When the "Effect" stage has happened it is too late to do anything. You are making your saving throw (if any) and the spell is occurring.
I disagree. An immediate action is essentially an interrupt. It happens immediately.
So as you see that death ray coming your way, you can pop the emergency force sphere. Same as if you were falling off a cliff, you can pop feather fall before you hit the ground.
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I'm unclear why the EFS has to happen before the target of the spell has been chosen.You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.
This isn't the "Casting" part of the spell. When the "Effect" stage has happened it is too late to do anything. You are making your saving throw (if any) and the spell is occurring.
I disagree. An immediate action is essentially an interrupt. It happens immediately.
So as you see that death ray coming your way, you can pop the emergency force sphere. Same as if you were falling off a cliff, you can pop feather fall before you hit the ground.
Immediate actions may be cast at any time. The question is does it take time for an effect to come into effect. In some cases the answer is obviously yes. With fireball it is made apparent in its spell description. "A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point."
Other effects are not as obvious? Say for charm person, does the effect itself take time (not the casting). Is there time between the end of casting (and thus the targeting) and when the effect takes place? If you adjudicate that there is no interim time then EFS is far less powerful.
Is it even obvious who is being target by spells without a visible effect?
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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authors need to add EmergFrcSph to the NPC's repertoireI personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have.Which weakness are we talking about?
Unfortunately, using spells from softcover books requires reprinting them in that adventure, and the action economy for one or two enemies using it against 4–6 PCs has very poor returns.
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I think it is pretty clear cut the effect has happened or it hasn't happened. If it hasn't happened the target hasn't been chosen. If it did happen then proceed with the "Effect" section of the spell.
There isn't much support for time during the effect besides dramatic storytelling. Which is pretty much to say none as far as the rules are concerned.
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Unfortunately, using spells from softcover books requires reprinting them in that adventure, and the action economy for one or two enemies using it against 4–6 PCs has very poor returns.authors need to add EmergFrcSph to the NPC's repertoireI personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have.Which weakness are we talking about?
I tried designing a quest once about the Cheliax Mining Wizards specifically to highlight this spell and a few other feats from that book. It can be strong when built around certainly. Didn't see that one through though. My new quest actually took this specific spell into account that PCs would be using it and prepared items just for it. It is fairly defining in that regard but a fresh look into the rules behind spells makes me think it be acceptable at tables still.
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I tried designing a quest once about the Cheliax Mining Wizards specifically to highlight this spell and a few other feats from that book. It can be strong when built around certainly. Didn't see that one through though. My new quest actually took this specific spell into account that PCs would be using it and prepared items just for it. It is fairly defining in that regard but a fresh look into the rules behind spells makes me think it be acceptable at tables still.Unfortunately, using spells from softcover books requires reprinting them in that adventure, and the action economy for one or two enemies using it against 4–6 PCs has very poor returns.authors need to add EmergFrcSph to the NPC's repertoireI personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have.Which weakness are we talking about?
That could get very deadly very fast. A wizard causing avalanches that they would be safe from is... scary.
Add some form of scrying, earth elemental summoning or dim door usage and you have a very bad day for any adventurers.
If one adjudicates that there is no time between targeting and effect (both happen at the completion of casting), then EFS is not that broken. Sure it is very useful but casters can simply target someone else. Ranged foes can target another PC after the first arrow. Only with melee foes does it really effect action economy.
Frankly the action economy issue is far broader than any one spell. If encounters are to be more challenging then they should involve more than just a BBEG, a well designed encounter has multiple bad guys that synergism well.
Side note: The idea of chelaxian mining wizards is intriguing.
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As a GM, I had the BIG BAD at the end of a (customized) Skulls and Shackles game use EFS on the deck of a ship. One PC used a Lyre of Building to start dismantling the deck while the others hacked away at the EFS. It took less than two rounds for the PCs to break through; the BIG BAD did not get the much needed respite.
I have played alongside a well-optimized diviner who uses EFS. It has saved him, but my sorcerer never felt it was worth retraining a spell known to get it. I am, however, salivating over the Staff of the Master (Necromancy) mentioned earlier. :)
If I were to make a list of the twenty PFS-legal things that break the game the most, EFS would not make the cut. Please don't ban it.
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If one adjudicates that there is no time between targeting and effect (both happen at the completion of casting), then EFS is not that broken. Sure it is very useful but casters can simply target someone else. Ranged foes can target another PC after the first arrow. Only with melee foes does it really effect action economy.
Frankly the action economy issue is far broader than any one spell. If encounters are to be more challenging then they should involve more than just a BBEG, a well designed encounter has multiple bad guys that synergism well.
Side note: The idea of chelaxian mining wizards is intriguing.
I played the wizard that fiddlersgreen talked about earlier in the thread. I frequently readied blast barrier (not resilient sphere) to block enemy spellcasters' line of effect. I also used emergency sphere alot. And then our GM imposed the house rules about when you can and cannot use interrupts.
I can vouch that making a ruling that you cannot insert a readied or immediate action between targeting and effect makes a world of difference. Almost all the problems with resilient sphere and readied blast barriers come from being able to stop a spell mid-flight to the intended target. Take that away and resilient sphere is handy but hardly overpowered.
You are overestimating the value of the immediate action vs the ability to be offensive. Also, an immediate action is only as valuable as your character's insight into the goings-on around him and what your GMs view of how immediate actions work is. And as well... sure it is fantastic versus an AOE. But what if the enemy is casting Phantasmal Killer? Do you EFS or hope the enemy isn't going to target you?
The difficulties with this spell are:
1) Overpowered for its spell level according to any reasonable understanding of the metamagic rules.
2) Abuses action economy in PFS by easily negating almost all spells/effects/attacks with an immediate action.
3) Frustrates GMs and other players that are not Wizards/Sorcs as well as developers.
4) All drawbacks of this spell are easily overcome by dimensional slide/shifting which are common to many Wizard builds.
Please ban or only allow this spell for Seeker level play only.
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I think it is pretty clear cut the effect has happened or it hasn't happened. If it hasn't happened the target hasn't been chosen. If it did happen then proceed with the "Effect" section of the spell.
There isn't much support for time during the effect besides dramatic storytelling. Which is pretty much to say none as far as the rules are concerned.
Obviously it isn't as clear cut as you claim.