elven curve blade rouge how should i build?

[nubtastic]

hello everyone looking through a bunch of forums i decided that for my next game i waned to play an unchained rouge that uses an elven curve blade so i narrowed it down to an elf swashbuckler (the archtype for rouges.) a half elf acrobat. or a regular unchained rouge half elf.

the traits would be: old heirloom weapon and iron will (+1 will save)

lvl.1 feat combat expertise.

other than that im open to ideas i wanted to make this a high dex build so i plan on making this a high dodge fient character so i know im gonna want dodge mobility swordplay style and improved fient but im not sure when the best lvls would be to take them all and in what order what do all of you think?

[JonGarrett]

Either Ancestral Weapon or Signature Moves can make pretty nice alternatives to Heirloom Weapon.

If you're going to be a two handed attacker, you might want to look at some of the good old standbys for such - Power Attack is a classic for a reason, and works well with this so long as you the Strength. Grabbing some rounds of Urban Barbarian or Bloodrager might also be fun, if only to make it so you have an obscene dex bonus for a few rounds every now and then.

Can't help too much with the rest, as I don't tend to play normal rogues.

[My Self]

Avoid Acrobat, the armor check penalties it reduces are negligible, and the regular Unchained Rogue has Rogue Talents that basically let you duplicate it. Both Half-Elves and regular Elves will do fine. If your GM vetoes old Heirloom Weapon, remember to take the Weapon Familiarity Alternate Racial Trait if you're a Half-Elf, so you can get your Curve Blade. If you don't take Weapon Familiarity, then take Dual-Minded, which is +2 to will saves.

Getting Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Weapon Focus, and Swordplay Style would be a huge amount of feats for anybody, even a Fighter. I'd recommend focusing on one or two of those. I'd avoid Dodge and Mobility for time being, since they don't add much to your build.

So probably:
1: Combat Expertise
2: Rogue Talent: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade) )
3: Improved Feint, Finesse Training (Elven Curve Blade)
4: Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Style Master (Swordplay Style (Elven Curve Blade) )
5: Twist Away, Rogue's Edge: Acrobatics
6: Rogue Talent: Resiliency
7: Swordplay Upset
8: Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Greater Feint
9: Power Attack
10: Rogue Talent: Double Debilitation, Rogue's Edge: Bluff
11: Swordplay Deflection, Finesse Training (Your choice of weapon)
12: Rogue Talent: Hunter's Surprise

Though to be truthful, feint becomes increasingly less useful by the time you qualify for Greater Feint, and you'd need something like Two-Weapon Feint and Improved Two-Weapon Feint to full attack and feint, which is impossible without a one-handed or light weapon.

Power Attack is a bit greedy, since you only have 3/4 BAB, but if you get into a situation where you're practically guaranteed a hit, or if you can hit but not get a Sneak Attack, it's an option.

[MageHunter]

Vital strike is later but really nice. Complements sneak attack pretty well. You could run in, wreck someone, and then move on.

[RealAlchemy]

Well, step one is to spell rogue correctly :) After that, I built an elven curveblade rogue as an elf unchained rogue with the swashbuckler AT from APG with dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat expertise, and gang up. Combine with boots of striding and springing and high acrobatics and stealth, and you have a nifty skirmishing melee character who gets a lot of flanks and sneak attacks. Sadly, no vital striking with spring attack.

[Faelyn]

If you go the Spring Attack route, then I would suggest the Scout archetype. You are garunteed Sneak Attack every time you Spring Attack as long as you move at least 10'. Also, Major Magic and Vanish is a great option for half-elves, because you can take the elven FCB and increase the number of usage per day each level. Lastly, Power Attack works well with Unchained Rogue due to the inclusion of Debilitating Injury! Reduce your target's AC with DI and then treat them as Flat-Footed with Scout and Spring Attack.

[Charon's Little Helper]

1. I'd suggest taking Armor Expert as one of your two traits. It'll let you eventually wear a mithril breastplate without proficiency.

2. Vital Strike's rather weak. It just doesn't come up enough to be worth a feat.

3. I'm with My Self - go with a Feint build. Consider trying to squeeze in the Moonlight Stalker feats. Combine Moonlight Stalker Feint with smoke pellets and you can Feint as a swift action.

[The Shaman]

Hmm, to be honest for that sort of character I like slayer more than rogue (the extra base attack bonus is great), but if you have to, power attack definitely sounds good - even if you are using dexterity for attack and damage, you can probably spare a score of 13 or 14 for strength, and push everything into dexterity afterwards. I will also chime in for using major magic with vanish, having several uses of invisibility strikes me as very cool for a rogue. I am not sold on swordplay style as rogues don´t have as many feats as fighters, but it might be handy. I would definitely want furious focus f you go for PA though, you do not want to miss with your first attack (especially if you are use the scout archetype and intend to only make one attack).

By the way, combat stamina can be a handy trick for a rogue. Even without any of the feat unlocks, being able to have a stamina pool you can use for bonuses to attack is quite decent.

[Charon's Little Helper]

The Shaman wrote:

I will also chime in for using major magic with vanish, having several uses of invisibility strikes me as very cool for a rogue.

Actually - if he's going with a Feint build - I disagree entirely there. While Vanish isn't a bad choice, he's already getting SA consistently, and there are better choices for Major Magic. I like Shield myself. It's basically +4 AC all of the time which is pretty sweet - being immune to magic missile won't come up often, but it's nothing to ignore.

I'm also dubious that Power Attack is worth a feat & 5 stat points since rogues have accuracy issues anyway, and with SA/Feint the static damage will be high, though there are valid arguments both ways.

[Lucy_Valentine]

ECB, consistent sneak attack, hence feinting... I think that feinting and ECBs hate each other. But let's see what I can manage.

Options:
- dump int, use cha to bluff, take brawler (to get feat requirements sorted). Downside, can't afford all that much Cha.
-raise int, make bluff run off int. Hope GM doesn't rule that Clever Wordplay requires actual words.
- Use acrobatics to feint because it's better (and you were going to max it anyway). Still take bluff 6 as a feat pre-requisite. D'oh!

I'm going to use option 3 here.
14/16+2/14-2/12+2/10/8 (weirdly, the mental stats don't matter much. Do what you like, but I like Int 14 to get Expertise immediately)
Traits: Threatening Defender, Elven +2 Init trait.

1) Rogue. Bonus finesse, Combat Expertise (unless you went low Int in which case, Blind Fight)
At this level this character is not using an ECB. :-( But it's rely on a trait, waste a trait, waste a free feat, or wait a level. I don't want to rely on a trait.
2) Slayer or Fighter. I quite like Slayer for theme, better saves, unlock of Slayer's Feint, and the Bounty Hunter archetype with it's nets. But mechanically we're here for martial proficiency, and Fighter's free feat cancels out the requirement for Acrobatic later (and it's not like Acrobatic would be bad on this character). Drill Sergeant Fighter gets a teamwork feat they can hand out. Outflank? Stealth Synergy?
3-4) Rogue. To feint, you want Improved Feint, Slayer's Feint, (probably) Shadow Strike, Moonlight Stalker, Blind Fight, and if you didn't take a level of Slayer, Acrobatic. Spend combat trick to get two of five. Cry because you can't have all of them.
Blind Fight and Moonlight Stalker are probably the better choices, because they have functionality outside of the feint-tree.
At this point you've got dex-to-damage with the 1.5 bonus, 2D6 sneak attack, 3 BAB, and you've been expertising all this time. You haven't done any feinting yet though.
5-7) Snakebite Striker Brawler. This gets you 1d6 sneak attack, a bonus feat, some punching you don't need, and most importantly the ability to move while move-action feinting (your move action to move comes with a free feint). Why do you need this? For when there's no concealment to be had.
Over these three levels pick up three other feats from the 3-4 range box.
8) If you're desperate for Moonlight Stalker Feint, whichever of Fighter or Slayer you had at L2, and get it via either bonus feat or Combat Trick (I don't see anything saying a Rogue/Slayer can't get Combat Trick from both classes...)
9) Rogue. You could take the Weapon Focus talent. If your L2 was Fighter, you'd now qualify for Weapon Specialisation (ECB). Or you could take Iron Will, since you're going to want that.
10+) If you need to qualify for Specialisation, you could pick up a fourth level of Brawler, which would also give +1 AC.
Otherwise/afterwards, it's just more Rogue. You probably want Greater Feint at some point, since you qualify and your friends like it, but if you get this far I'm sure you can work out what suits you. I'd probably leave weapon specialisation for a while and get rogue debuffing stuff.

If your party comp made it hard to get flanks, you might want to bring the three brawler levels forward to 3-5. Also, if you wanted Int to be lower than 13 you'd need to take Brawler at level 3 just so you could get started on the Expertise parts of the feint-chains. Bringing brawler earlier obviously delays progress to dex-to-damage and other rogue shiny things, but it could be worth it.

[Rub-Eta]

May I suggest that you play a Rogue instead of a Rouge? It seems to be similar to what you're aiming for. Or at least check with your DM before you pick a 3PP class, if it's okay or not.

[nennafir]

You could try:
(Note: Elven arragance just for flavor. Ditch if you want. Chose Envoy to counteract it so you can still cast comprehend languages to talk to people.)

Should be PFS legal.

Swashbuckler Archetype Unchained Rogue
Elf
+Elven Arrogance
+Envoy

Bonus Language: Aklo, Celestial
Traits: (1) Surface Stranger(Undergroud), Regional Trait. Your miss chance for concealment or total
concealment due to either mundane or magical darkness decreases by 10%. You are dazzled for 1 round
when you are suddenly exposed to bright light.
(2) Pragmatic Activator, Magic trait. You may use your Intelligence modifier when making Use Magic Device checks instead of your Charisma modifier.

Str: 8
Dex: 20 (increase at 4,8,12)
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
1: Swashbuckler familiarity: Elven Curve Blade, Blind Fight, Favored: +1 HP
2: Rogue Talent: Minor Magic (Ghost Sound), Favored: +1 Minor Magic
3: Combat Expertise, Favored: +1 Minor Magic
4: Rogue Talent: Major Magic (Obscuring Mist), Favored: +1 Major Magic
5: Moonlight Stalker, Rogue's Edge: Perception, Favored: +1 Major Magic
6: Rogue Talent: Combat Trick(Improved Feint), Favored: +1 Minor Magic
7: Moonlight Stalker Feint, Favored: +1 Major Magic
8: Rogue Talent: Bleeding Attack, Favored: +1 Minor Magic
9: Moonlight Stalker Master, Favored: +1 Major Magic
10: Rogue Talent: Combat Trick(Improved Blind Fight), Rogue's Edge: Acrobatics, Favored: +1 Minor
Magic
11: Improved Critical, Favored: +1 Major Magic
12: Rogue Talent: Weapon Training(Weapon Focus--ECB), Favored: +1 HP

Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Perception,
Sense Motive, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.

You can cast obscuring mist all over the place, cast ghost sounds in the mist to make guards think you are somewhere you are not, and are very good at fighting blind. Plus you have moonlight stalker.

[1bent1]

My Self wrote:

...Great stuff

4: Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Style Master (Swordplay Style (Elven Curve Blade)
More great stuff...

I know this is an old post but thank you for bringing up Style Master. I am making a similar build to this:

Human Unchained, FCB 1/6 RT
1 Combat Expertise, Improved Feint
2 RT Weapon Trick-WF Rapier
3 Twist Away
4 Trap Spotter
5 Swordplay Style, Rogues Edge: Acrobatics
6 RT Resilience
7 RT Ninja Trick-Style Master-Swordplay Upset, Iron Will
8 RT Combat Trick-Greater Feint
9 Butterfly Sting
10 RT Opportunist, Rogues Edge Sense Motive
11 Improved Critical

[Inlaa]

If you want Power Attack while still keeping STR low take 2 levels of Ranger and you're gold (thank you Ranger bonus feats).

[Chess Pwn]

There's a new monk archetype from villian's codex, hellcat monk I think, it adds power attack to the list of monk's feats. Only works for chained monk, but it's an avenue to get PA quicker pre-req free.

[Jodokai]

I would not do Armor Expert or use a Breast Plate. You DEX is going to way outstrip that very early on. Power Attack isn't a bad idea, it just hurts to lose the points on STR. Unchained Rogues have completely negated any accuracy issues the regular rogue has. Get a menacing weapon, and when you're flanking your iterative attacks can have a higher to hit chance than your primary attack. It also makes dual wielding downright scary.

Speaking of flanking, one of the best builds has to be combing Canny Tumble with Circling Mongoose.