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Was invited to join a Pathfinder group, and found them with a dearth of warriors and no mages. Since warrior-types are my default, I decided to step outside my comfort zone (mostly).
I had my concept before I even thought about mechanics: Rage Mage. By this, I don't mean like a Rage Prophet (Barbarian with limited spells for buffs and stuff), I was more thinking of an actual raging full-caster: a mage who can enter a rage/trance/whatever to enhance the potency of their magic, but at a cost.
In short, I'm looking for any feats, archetypes, prestige classes, etc. that can be applied to a spellcaster to give them a magic equivalent of Barbarian Rage. Obviously, I can re-flavor what's there, so it really just has to be some limited resource that makes my spells stronger, preferably with some drawback.
When I asked my GM what books we can use, he simply said "all of them".
Thanks in advance.
A dearth is a shortage. Not what you mean?
Anyway, an Arcanist gets a pool of points for boosting their spells which they can refuel by trading in extra spell slots. Or by killing things with the Twilight Sage archetype.
A dearth is a shortage. Not what you mean?
Anyway, an Arcanist gets a pool of points for boosting their spells which they can refuel by trading in extra spell slots. Or by killing things with the Twilight Sage archetype.
Oh, that's embarrassing. I meant exactly the opposite of that, yes. Cue Princess Bride references.
Arcanist? That's the wizard/sorcerer hybrid, right? Might be interesting to look into. Thanks.
Anything else I should investigate?
A Skald might be worth looking into. They're basically a barbarian-bard hybrid. They've got some magic, and their Raging Song buff should make your plethora of melee allies very happy.
There's some sorcerer bloodlines which get a bonus caster level either when they're hit (martyr) or kill things (div). Via the blood arcanist archetype they're even compatible with arcanist, though just going sorc is still viable.
If you're not used to playing a caster an arcanist does have a good system for spellcasting, I do recommend it. You prepare spells each day so you can fix poor spell picks easily, then you cast the spells spontaneously so you don't need to know how many fly spells vs. fireballs (e.g.) to have ready.
There's some sorcerer bloodlines which get a bonus caster level either when they're hit (martyr) or kill things (div). Via the blood arcanist archetype they're even compatible with arcanist, though just going sorc is still viable.
If you're not used to playing a caster an arcanist does have a good system for spellcasting, I do recommend it. You prepare spells each day so you can fix poor spell picks easily, then you cast the spells spontaneously so you don't need to know how many fly spells vs. fireballs (e.g.) to have ready.
After looking it up on the SRD, I'd say Arcanist is an excellent choice. I think Eldritch Font might make a good archetype choice, since the fatigue/exhaustion effect of Eldritch Surge is a pretty good mirror of the Barbarian's Rage. I won't discount the Bloodline archetype just yet though, that Div Arcana is quite tempting...
If anyone knows of any spells, feats, prestige classes or misc. options that they think are must-haves for this build, let me know. Thanks for all the help so far.
Eldritch Font isn't really compatible with being the main caster IMO. Losing a prepared spell/level is too much.
If third party is allowed, a Wilder with the Raging Surge is exactly what you're looking for. They literally enter rage (and so they make for good gish), and from there they can further empower their spells.
They have full caster progressio on paper, but consider that A) Psionixs spells tend to get less crazy than First Party ones and B)they get very few spells known.
Eldritch Font isn't really compatible with being the main caster IMO. Losing a prepared spell/level is too much.
I don't think that'll be an issue. The group is mostly roleplayers and storytellers, not optimizers (GM included). They've made it to Lv.4 with a paladin, barbarian, 2 rangers and a cleric. They didn't even ask me to be a caster; when I asked about being a paladin, they said they had no problem with having 2 in the party. Being a caster was my idea.
If third party is allowed, a Wilder with the Raging Surge is exactly what you're looking for. They literally enter rage (and so they make for good gish), and from there they can further empower their spells.
They have full caster progressio on paper, but consider that A) Psionixs spells tend to get less crazy than First Party ones and B)they get very few spells known.
This class looks really cool, but I don't think I'll be using 3rd Party for this. It's my first time playing a non-fighter-type, and my first time with this playgroup, I don't want to overcomplicate things. Still, I'm putting the Wilder in my back pocket for now; if I ever get the chance, I'll definitely try it out.
Err. Bloodrager? A hybrid of barbarian and sorcerer.
The Bloodrager is more martial than caster, but might still be worth a look. Or so I thought, but since none has mentioned it before me I suppose it doesn’t stand up to your requirements.
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The Psychic Abomination discipline has a Dark Half ability that allows them to transform into a rage-like state during which they can gain DR, enhance their spells, and generally be scary :3
Ooo! Ooo! I have a build for you!
Start here if you want to see the thought of the thought process that went into it, or
Start here if you want to skip down to the Bloodrager archetype dip section (split over 2 posts), or
Start here if you want to skip down to the build itself; thoughts on weapons are in the next post afterwards (also has some other relevant stuff) and then the 3rd post down from it.
To summarize, you start Blood Conduit Bloodrager (preferably Aberrant to get Reach), and then go Blade Adept Arcanist thereafter, getting the Bloodline Development Arcane Exploit to progress your Bloodrager Bloodline and the Mad Magic feat to allow raging spellcasting, while going VMC Magus and then abusing the combination of Blade Adept Arcanist and VMC Magus to make the Maneuver Mastery Arcana work. (You can take it with VMC Magus, but VMC Magus only gives you effective Magus levels to qualify for it, but not for the effect; Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for the effect but doesn't give you that Magus Arcana on its list of Magus Arcana that you can take. With the combination, you're good to go. The Bloodrager level doesn't count, but it doesn't matter since that is full BAB anyway.)
Since your Blade Adept Arcanist Arcane Reservoir counts as a Magus Arcane Pool but Arcane Reservoir points are in short supply and hard to recharge, the Arcane Pool that VMC Magus gives you helps alleviate the shortage starting at character level 3.
You will be temporarily feat-starved, but this starts to ease up at character level 9.
You will be temporarily starved for Arcane Exploits, but this starts to ease up at character level 12.
You only have 1 caster level loss -- probably not worth taking Magical Knack for (better to spend your non-Campaign trait on something like Defensive Strategist, if you can swing worship of Torag, to mostly get back the Uncanny Dodge that Blood Conduit Bloodrager trades out and that any 1st level Bloodrager doesn't get anyway).
It's good to be friends with a Skald for this build, although that isn't strictly necessary (note that Skald's Inspired Rage doesn't activate your Rage Powers unless the Skald is 20th level, but even so, it lets you stretch out your limited rounds of Rage; you can use the Rage spell to extend Rage with activation of your Bloodline Powers if you only take Attacks of Opportunity, Move Actions, and Swift Actions during the rounds you concentrate on it, or if you just treat it as a 1 round/level buff, or 2 rounds/level with Extend Spell). Note: If you go Urban Bloodrager instead of Blood Conduit Bloodrager (to be Dex-based), be friends with an Urban Skald.
Also see this Arcanist guide linked from the same thread.
Skald is THE raging spellcaster.
A Skald might be worth looking into.
Err. Bloodrager? A hybrid of barbarian and sorcerer.
Skald is THE raging spellcaster.
I appreciate all your input, but I am aware of the Bloodrager, Skald and Raging Prophet. I realize I may have been too vague in my opening post: I'm not really looking to play a gish (not that I'd completely discount it. I more-so meant a mage with a rage equivalent: like the barbarian's rage enhances their melee attacks, so too would the "rage mage" be able to enhance her spells for a limited time. I came up with the idea before I started looking at mechanics. It may not be viable or even possible, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Ooo! Ooo! I have a build for you!
<snipped>
Oh, wow. That's one heck of a build! I apologize if I come across as slow, but what exactly is it? I enjoy the concept of character optimization, but the actual math always leaves me a little confused. I'm getting a gish feeling from the choice of archetype. I'll have to read it again in the morning. Thanks for a help, either way!
The Psychic Abomination discipline has a Dark Half ability that allows them to transform into a rage-like state during which they can gain DR, enhance their spells, and generally be scary :3
This is, in fact, exactly what I had in mind. A full-progression spellcaster, complete with squishy-wizard d6 HD and no armor proficiency, who can enter a limited use state to enhance spell DCs and damage. If I end up using this, I might have to re-flavor it to fit the campaign, but it seems pretty solid regardless.
A Skald might be worth looking into.Err. Bloodrager? A hybrid of barbarian and sorcerer.Skald is THE raging spellcaster.I appreciate all your input, but I am aware of the Bloodrager, Skald and Raging Prophet. I realize I may have been too vague in my opening post: I'm not really looking to play a gish (not that I'd completely discount it. I more-so meant a mage with a rage equivalent: like the barbarian's rage enhances their melee attacks, so too would the "rage mage" be able to enhance her spells for a limited time. I came up with the idea before I started looking at mechanics. It may not be viable or even possible, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Well, I have bad news for you. This USED TO BE possible, before the Errata that changed Scarred Witch Doctor away from Constitution-based spellcasting (can you say Bloodrager 1/Scarred Witch Doctor X with optional foray into Eldritch Knight?) . . . And this would be almost out-of-the-box read to enhance with Bloodrage, except that you would still need the Mad Magic feat to let you cast spells while in Bloodrage. Unfortunately, somebody decided that Constitution-based spellcasting was too cool for Scarred Witch Doctor, but they forgot to consider that Half-Orcs can also be Scarred Witch Doctors and can put their +2 to one ability score anywhere, wo when they replaced Constitution-based spellcasting with Intelligence-based spellcasting and Fierce Intelligence, which makes your Intelligence count as 2 higher for class features, they not only killed Gish Orc Scarred Witch Doctors on reasonable point buys, but they also made Scarred Witch Doctor but otherwise completely conventional Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctors absurdly powerful (without the use of anything having to do with Rage).
Oh, wow. That's one heck of a build! I apologize if I come across as slow, but what exactly is it? I enjoy the concept of character optimization, but the actual math always leaves me a little confused. I'm getting a gish feeling from the choice of archetype. I'll have to read it again in the morning. Thanks for a help, either way!Ooo! Ooo! I have a build for you!
<snipped>
Well, this came out of the Arcanist guide discussion thread that I linked above -- I was trying to think of how to make Blade Adept Arcanist useful, since it is a hybrid archetype of Arcanist that adds in some Magus class features, and it was rated as being pretty bad, which is true . . . Except that being a debugger at heart, and with disappointment about Maneuver Mastery not working properly with VMC Magus being still relatively fresh in my mind, AND with the above-noted Scarred Witch Doctor Errata being still relatively fresh in my mind, I figured out a way to make it work. Keep in mind that I was, in fact, making this as a Gish -- but not just any Gish, but as an attempt to get the equivalent of Reach Cleric tactics onto a 9/9 arcane spellcasting chassis: Make Attacks of Opportunity against nearby opponents, preferably combined with combat maneuvers (normally Trip), rather than using your actions to attack, and use your actions to cast spells and reposition yourself as needed.
Here are the pieces:
The level of Bloodrager gives you a Bloodline to advance with the Arcane Exploit Bloodline Development. At the time I wasn't sure this would work, although just a day or two ago I saw an FAQ that in fact it does work, although unfortunately I can't remember how to find it. The Aberrant Bloodline gets you Abnormal Reach when you are in Bloodrage once you progress it to 4th level; however, you don't get 4 levels of Bloodrager, or even any more than 1, but instead use the Arcanist Exploit Bloodline Development to do so -- see below. The Bloodline Powers that you get while Bloodraging with further progression of this Bloodline are also very nice. The purpose of the Reach, as I mentioned above, is to be able to use the Reach Cleric's tactics on a 9/9 arcane spellcasting chassis. The Blood Conduit archetype of Bloodrager also gives you an Improved Combat Maneuver (choose Improved Trip so that you can use it on Attacks of Opportunity) as a bonus feat, skipping the prerequisites (meaning that you don't need to pay the Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting feat tax).
After this, you go Blade Adept Arcanist all the way, getting Bloodline Development (see above) as soon as possible (you have to wait until 5th level Arcanist, because the archetype replaces the Arcane Exploits at Arcanist levels 1, 3, and 9), and getting the feat Mad Magic to enable casting from any spellcasting class while in Bloodrage. The Bloodrage unfortunately doesn't do anything directly for your spellcasting (you would have needed pre-Errata Scarred Witch Doctor for that -- see above), but it or the Rage spell (or the Inspired Rage of a 20th level Skald) activates your Bloodrager Bloodline Powers, including the aforementioned Abnormal Reach (which gets even better if you cast Long Arm and/or Enlarge Person on yourself). This Bloodline Power is important (as are the spells that make it better), because unlike a Reach Cleric, you don't actually get to use a Reach weapon with Blade Adept Arcanist (you could use your Bloodrager weapon proficiency to work with one, but this clashes with some of the Blade Adept Arcanist class features, which restrict your weapon choice -- your Sword Bond and later Sentient Sword must be a one-handed pierceing or slashing melee weapon). At low levels, before you can get this Bloodline Power online, you just use Enlarge Person and/or Long Arm, both of which are 1st level spells on the Sorcerer/Wizard (and Arcanist) list, so you aren't totally offline before you can get Bloodline Development at Arcanist level 5 = character level 6 -- you just have to ration spells per day carefully. Blade Adept Arcanist lets you select from a limited set of Magus Arcana, and gives you effective Magus levels both for qualifying for Magus Arcana and determining their effect.
Unfortunately, the Magus Arcana that Blade Adept Arcanist can select do not include Maneuver Mastery, which lets you use your Magus Level instead of your Base Attack Bonus for calculating your Combat Maneuver Bonus. That's where VMC Magus comes in -- actually, VMC Magus comes in before that, replacing your 3rd level character feat with an Arcane Pool, which alleviates the load on your limited Arcane Reservoir. At 7th level, your character feat is replaced with a Magus Arcana, and so you pick Maneuver Mastery, which VMC Magus gives you access to. If you weren't a Blade Adept Arcanist, this wouldn't actually work, because VMC Magus only gives you effective Magus levels for the purpose of qualifying for Magus Arcana, but not for determining their effect, whereas Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for the purpose of determing the effect of Magus Arcana, but wouldn't let you pick this Magus Arcana by itself. Your 11th level character feat gets replaced by Spellstrike, and your 15th and 19th level character feats get replaced by more Magus Arcana, thus saving you from the need to spend your limited Blade Adept Arcanist Exploits on Spellstrike and Magus Arcana.
The Psychic Abomination discipline has a Dark Half ability that allows them to transform into a rage-like state during which they can gain DR, enhance their spells, and generally be scary :3This is, in fact, exactly what I had in mind. A full-progression spellcaster, complete with squishy-wizard d6 HD and no armor proficiency, who can enter a limited use state to enhance spell DCs and damage. If I end up using this, I might have to re-flavor it to fit the campaign, but it seems pretty solid regardless.
In some ways, this might be the closest thing remaining to a pre-Errata Scarred Witch Doctor with a Bloodrager dip.
Well, I have bad news for you. This USED TO BE possible, before the Errata that changed Scarred Witch Doctor away from Constitution-based spellcasting (can you say Bloodrager 1/Scarred Witch Doctor X with optional foray into Eldritch Knight?) . . . And this would be almost out-of-the-box read to enhance with Bloodrage, except that you would still need the Mad Magic feat to let you cast spells while in Bloodrage. Unfortunately, somebody decided that Constitution-based spellcasting was too cool for Scarred Witch Doctor, but they forgot to consider that Half-Orcs can also be Scarred Witch Doctors and can put their +2 to one ability score anywhere, wo when they replaced Constitution-based spellcasting with Intelligence-based spellcasting and Fierce Intelligence, which makes your Intelligence count as 2 higher for class features, they not only killed Gish Orc Scarred Witch Doctors on reasonable point buys, but they also made Scarred Witch Doctor but otherwise completely conventional Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctors absurdly powerful (without the use of anything having to do with Rage).
Oh man. Super sad to hear this. Constitution-based witch sounds like barrels of fun. But hey! Might still be able to talk my GM into letting me use the pre-errata version. Course it's a human only campaign, so I'd have to convince him to let me ignore the race restriction too. It's all in the name of flavourful character concepts though! So I might still stand a chance.
I am not sure if it will do, but the Elnightened Bloodrager I believe has the greatest emphasis on spell casting of all of the Bloodrager archetypes.
I do like the idea of a raging warrior that struggles to keep his innate arcane abilities under control