This question has been nagging my mind since I first started playing RPGs; Exactly who's responsibility is it for a player to know how to play the game?
I know that the GM is generally responsible for being the final arbiter of how the rules play out in a campaign so they are responsible for enforcing whatever rules are in play including house rules and what books to use, but what about knowing how to play in the first place?
Is the GM charged with rule education? If a GM starts a game does that GM need to consider running a tutorial so that the campaign goes smoothly?
If there are mixed levels of experience at the table should there be assuptions of sessions of remedial education that is voluntary on the part of experienced players?
If a player is handed a Core Rulebook and Strategy Guide a week or two in advance and has not further input from the other players or GM is it reasonable to expect that player to have a functioning(not necessarily optimized) character and general knowledge of what it can do?
In some cases I've seen plenty of players that are multiple sessions and even multiple campaigns into the game that have trouble calculating Power Attack or foresight to have more than 10 in their casting stat unless the GM specifically instructs and oversees the character creation process on a step by step basis, so GM responsibility seems desirable but should it be expected?
What about cases where the GM and the players are new to the game and GM goes through the process of learning the game in order to GM, should that GM also be burdened with teaching the rest of the players in turn? Who is responsible for teaching the GM or is the GM responsible for teaching herself in situations like that?
I'd like to know the forums point of view on the concept of learning the game and who is responsible for teaching. This isn't for a specific problem I'm facing so this is just a general thought to apply to a number of situations.
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I guess it depends?
In my own case, I was the instigator in introducing my kids to the game. Hence, my responsibility to teach myself to GM and them to play as best as I could. I would not have tried though, without having been a player (1st edition) a couple of decades earlier. When I learnt primarily by watching a couple of sessions and then asking to join in. They also had experience of building characters for the Neverwinter Nights games.
I don't think it at all reasonable to hand a player the core rules and expect them to learn them, or be able to build a character, whatever extra books you give them. That's why there's the Beginners' Box. Note that an objective with that is to get everyone actually playing as fast as possible.
I introduced my kids' grandma by playing 'We be Goblins' and giving her the pre-generated fighter, and she coped splendidly - it was, however, a one-off, and I don't suppose she picked up on much of the mechanics, and certainly not on building characters. However, what matters is, we all had a lot of fun.
If somebody decides they want to learn, then they will probably have the motivation to do so. If someone else is pushing them to join in then that person has a responsibility. Even so, I think it's everyone's responsibility to accept that there's a lot to learn, and new things at every level, and the best way to learn is through watching and by play. And accept that beginners (or even quite experienced players) are going get things wrong from time to time.
This question has been nagging my mind since I first started playing RPGs; Exactly who's responsibility is it for a player to know how to play the game?
I know that the GM is generally responsible for being the final arbiter of how the rules play out in a campaign so they are responsible for enforcing whatever rules are in play including house rules and what books to use, but what about knowing how to play in the first place?
Is the GM charged with rule education? If a GM starts a game does that GM need to consider running a tutorial so that the campaign goes smoothly?
If there are mixed levels of experience at the table should there be assuptions of sessions of remedial education that is voluntary on the part of experienced players?
If a player is handed a Core Rulebook and Strategy Guide a week or two in advance and has not further input from the other players or GM is it reasonable to expect that player to have a functioning(not necessarily optimized) character and general knowledge of what it can do?
In some cases I've seen plenty of players that are multiple sessions and even multiple campaigns into the game that have trouble calculating Power Attack or foresight to have more than 10 in their casting stat unless the GM specifically instructs and oversees the character creation process on a step by step basis, so GM responsibility seems desirable but should it be expected?
What about cases where the GM and the players are new to the game and GM goes through the process of learning the game in order to GM, should that GM also be burdened with teaching the rest of the players in turn? Who is responsible for teaching the GM or is the GM responsible for teaching herself in situations like that?
I'd like to know the forums point of view on the concept of learning the game and who is responsible for teaching. This isn't for a specific problem I'm facing so this is just a general thought to apply to a number of situations.
From my experience, the GM and the other players work together to teach new players how to play the game.
If you just hand someone the Core and Strategy Guide, I wouldn't expect a totally functioning character in a week; there is a lot of information to cover. Now, if they are an experienced player of other games they may have an advantage there and be ready and able with what many on the boards would consider a "good" character.
As far as players that still cannot calculate Power Attack and other things, I've seen players that are 10 year vets that basically don't care enough to learn parts of the game. They are focused on other aspects of the game, perhaps, or just forgetful, or don't care, or any other reason, but they simply don't retain the information.
In any of this, I wouldn't consider teaching a burden. Everyone has a personal responsibility to learn, but if the GM or other players don't feel any special need to help then they don't have much right to complain as well if the player isn't on the level they'd like.
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Depends on the table and circumstances. In my games, I'm ok GMing with kiddie gloves on for a while, while people new to the system learn, and I have a general house rule where the first four or so levels of any game, you can make adjustments to your character, switch out feats, change classes, whatever, but after that things are more locked in, and it falls under the Retraining rules, which may or may not be practical depending on the campaign.
That said, as a GM, I only hold hands for so long. If ten sessions into the game I'm still explaining how to figure out your bonuses to hit, chances are good you're not going to be playing in the game very much longer. I don't say this to sound elitist, but simply because I don't have the time. By that point, the player either isn't willing to put for the effort, or isn't able, so they need to find another game. I have a daughter, and work 7 days a week, so my time is very precious to me, and I won't waste it, or let someone else waste it.
Other GMs are not like me though, and are perfectly fine to have people with next to no understanding of the game, and they all have a marvelous time playing together.
This question has been nagging my mind since I first started playing RPGs; Exactly who's responsibility is it for a player to know how to play the game?
I know that the GM is generally responsible for being the final arbiter of how the rules play out in a campaign so they are responsible for enforcing whatever rules are in play including house rules and what books to use, but what about knowing how to play in the first place?
Is the GM charged with rule education? If a GM starts a game does that GM need to consider running a tutorial so that the campaign goes smoothly?
If there are mixed levels of experience at the table should there be assuptions of sessions of remedial education that is voluntary on the part of experienced players?
If a player is handed a Core Rulebook and Strategy Guide a week or two in advance and has not further input from the other players or GM is it reasonable to expect that player to have a functioning(not necessarily optimized) character and general knowledge of what it can do?
In some cases I've seen plenty of players that are multiple sessions and even multiple campaigns into the game that have trouble calculating Power Attack or foresight to have more than 10 in their casting stat unless the GM specifically instructs and oversees the character creation process on a step by step basis, so GM responsibility seems desirable but should it be expected?
What about cases where the GM and the players are new to the game and GM goes through the process of learning the game in order to GM, should that GM also be burdened with teaching the rest of the players in turn? Who is responsible for teaching the GM or is the GM responsible for teaching herself in situations like that?
I'd like to know the forums point of view on the concept of learning the game and who is responsible for teaching. This isn't for a specific problem I'm facing so this is just a general thought to apply to a number of situations.
As common courtesy I think those who are experienced, no matter if they are players or a GM, should assist those who are new, but I would not say it inherently falls to anyone.
At our table it's the job of whoever knows the rules of the game we're playing to teach everyone else.
I don't think that's an obligation though, that's just how we've always done it (there are basically two or three of us who buy and read all the games and everyone else just turns up and does whatever the group has decided).
There isn't one answer for this. While it is ultimately the player's responsibility to know how to run their own character and the GM's to know how to run the monsters and NPCs, it would be contrary to the point of a social game to not help each other out. The chemistry/culture/attitudes at your table will make your experience different from others'.
it would be contrary to the point of a social game to not help each other out. The chemistry/culture/attitudes at your table will make your experience different from others'.
well said
The responsibility for knowing how to play a game lies with anyone trying to play the game.
You can learn the game by reading, by being taught, or a mix. But in the end it's on you to learn.
You don't need to be perfect & know every tidbit (at least for RPGs). But you do need to understand the basics. For PF/D&D that'd be: AC, HP, How to attack, How to make a Save, How to calculate damage dealt. And if your a caster, how to tell how many spells you can cast. You know, BASIC stuff.
You also need to understand that the game starts at X time/date.
The rest will fall into place eventually.
Continuous failure to grasp these fundamentals = you not playing with us.
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I would allow a player of any knowledge level to sit at my table as long as they do two things:
- They must are willing to put an effort into learning the rules that relate to their characters. They can start knowing absolutly nothing and I am willing to help them on their way; but if they do not want to put effort into improving their game, then I don't feel the need to put effort into keeping them as players.
- The second thing is that they have to have an interest in the game, not because their boyfriend is playing or because they have nothing better to do today, or because they cannot find a group that plays the game they want to play.
Other that that, let's play and have fun!!!!
I would run a "pre-game" session where the goal would be generating characters and helping build their back stories.
I don't think there's any obligation at all, much less a "burden."
I feel this is case by case basis. The GM shoulder understand most rules but its not necessary to know all, similar for players. With the SRD and apps available, its easy to pull up when a rule is required. Generally when a player messes up on something you don't know, you explain it the first time and allow them a chance to do something else. After that, they knew better. Also, if the GM F's up and the players manage to clarify the rule, I think a good GM should have the ability to go "Well...it appears I messed up" and rectify how he can, or let it slide if the mess up was in the players favor. My two cents
At my table, I wouldn't let you play if you wouldn't at least put the effort into reading (but not necessarily understanding) the rules relating to your class (such as combat and magic) and your class' mechanics up to the starting level.
If you didn't do those, at best you might get to play Generic_2h_Warrior_#57.
I know EXACTLY what your talking about. We have one player on our group who has been playing with us 10 years and she still cannot correctly calculate her attack bonuses, does not regularly use the action system correctly, cannot figure out her spell DC's on her own and more. It drives some of us in the group crazy but she is a great person and generally we are fine 'carrying her along' in the game as we enjoy her company and she does not mess up stuff for the rest of us. Just her turns take forever.
To answer your question though, if the game is happening regularly (2-3 or more sessions a month) and a player is serious about the game they should KNOW the basic game rules that cover skills, combat, saving throws, the action system, movement and their classes abilities by the 6 months IMO. That is plenty of time to read the basics of the core rules, read the class descriptions to see what appeals to them, get a character made (yes they should be helped on their first few by the TABLE not only the GM) and play some sessions so they can see how the game runs and they can then read up more on the stuff that confuses them at the table.
That does not include knowing all spells for their class. Spell casters have so many spell options that learning all that takes a LOT more time and with new spells coming out all the time can be a never ending process.
Everyone playing in the game (that includes, maybe even more so, the GM) has a responsibility to the entire table to be proficient enough with the basic system and THEIR characters abilities that they do not bog down game play and can make intelligent decisions both in combat and while RPing based on how the rules cover those two areas.
The GM does not have any extra burden to teach the game compared to the other players IMO. They will just get more questions since they are the GM and stuff will happen that they have to either arbitrate or explain just by nature of the position and what it does.