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I have a question about a character concept I have. I'm picturing a Tiefling with the oversized limb variant ability ("You have oversized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.") I would combine this with the Titan Fighter archetype which at first level can wield giant weapons. ("At 1st level, a titan fighter can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons. He takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an over-sized two-handed weapon.")
Does this mean the character would suffer no penalties if it wielded a large sized 2-handed weapon? The Titan Fighter class ability allows hime to wield large sized 2-handed weapons and the oversized limbs allow him to use large weapons without penalty. Do these abilities stack so that a medium sized Tiefling Titan Fighter with oversized limbs can wield a large sized Earth Breaker without any penalty?
If they don't stack then the oversized limbs would give no benefit over any other Titan Fighter.
Thoughts
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I don't even think you need Titan Fighter. The tiefling ability pretty clearly lets you use Large weapons, even two-handed ones, without penalty.
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I don't even think you need Titan Fighter. The tiefling ability pretty clearly lets you use Large weapons, even two-handed ones, without penalty.
Are you sure? Normally you can't wield large weapons unless they are one-handed when medium sized. The Titan Fighter is the only specific mention of being able to wield large 2-handed weapons.
You are correct that the Tiefling ability simply says "large sized" without any mention of number of hands but I thought it was just understood because of the rules of using weapons above your size category.
I'll wait to see some other opinions but I would like it if you are right.
There is a 3rd party feat called lighten weapon you might be interested its on d20pfrd thingy I probably spelled it wrong. It does essentially what 3.5 monkey grip did. But it words it better. Look it up
The alternate tiefling ability uses the same wording as the ability for redcaps (with the only difference being the redcap is small using a medium two-handed weapon and the tiefling using large weapons). By the ability, the weapon used and doing the math on the attack bonus given with the medium scythe, it can be seen that the wording removes both the -2 attack penalty for the weapon being created for someone one size category larger as well as making it so the smaller creature can use two-handed weapons designed for the larger creature's size category.
In my game I am running right now I have a player with the tiefling's large hands trait, who is a Titan Mauler and has taken the lighten weapon feat mentioned above. I ruled, admittedly while being pressured by my table's rules lawyer, that it was legal. Sill, examining just the Titan Mauler and the large hands racial ability? I definitely say they stack.
Just please, for your GM's sake, don't go overboard with it.
Absolutely. They stack. Though you may find them doing so unhelpful.
You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.
As people have pointed out above, "without penalty" means both the "not suited for your size" attack penalty, and the handedness penalty. You can wield a Large Greatsword without penalty.
At 1st level, a titan fighter can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons. He takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an over-sized two-handed weapon.
The first half doesn't do anything for you, as you could already wield a Large Greatsword without penalty. The second half increases the penalty for wielding a weapon intended for Large creatures by 2... but you still take no penalty, so increasing it doesn't hurt you.
They don't "stack" to let you wield Huge greatswords, they just both stack in regards to Large weapons.
@Saethori he said titan mauler the barbarian archetype not the titan fighter archetype.
The original topic very much says Fighter. All the posts following say Fighter. It's not until the one immediately preceding mine, which asked no questions, that mentioned the Titan Mauler.
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The tiefling oversized limbs thing does not let you wield large two handed weapons. There is no penalty, as you just cannot do it
What do you make of these, then?
Heavy Weapons (Ex) A redcap can wield weapons sized for Medium creatures without penalty.
It's a small-sized creature wielding a medium-sized two-handed weapon, which is normally impossible.
Oversized Weapon (Ex) An ash giant can wield Huge weapons without penalty.
It's a large-sized creature wielding a huge-sized one-handed weapon, in one hand, which is normally impossible.
Seems that they use the same language as the Tiefling ability.
Uh, what? Monsters don't use PC rules? And pattern of language somehow qualifies as a PC rule?
The wording is very clear. The ability to wield larger weapons "without penalty" treats "increase in number of hands needed to wield" as a penalty that it ignores.
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those are monsters though, they dont use pc rules
Quoting Jessica Price, Paizo's Project Manager, from another thread:
Again, in my humble opinion, this shows the kind of cut-and-paste writing that was used to build the phantom part of the Spiritualist class.That's how technical writing works. Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent. When people are picking apart every clause to determine how a rule works, it's important that things that work the same way be stated in the same way so that readers don't assume variance where there is none.
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I didn't feel the need to post here again after my last post. but it seems to have been ignored. try reading it. not only an archetype that allows you to use 2h large weapons as medium but the actual rules that say -2 for using a large size weapon regardless of 2h or 1h quote.
I don't think it was that you were ignored. It's more that your post... well, was rehashing what was in the original post. It didn't really have anything new, so it wasn't exactly something anybody could respond to.
Uh, what? Monsters don't use PC rules? And pattern of language somehow qualifies as a PC rule?
The wording is very clear. The ability to wield larger weapons "without penalty" treats "increase in number of hands needed to wield" as a penalty that it ignores.
I thought it was well known that monsters dont use pc rules. Some other paizo guy said it.
There's only one set of rules. Sometimes abilities have prerequisites that only monsters can meet, but if a PC could somehow meet those same prereqs then they could also gain the ability.
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I thought it was well known that monsters dont use pc rules. Some other paizo guy said it.
If we're thinking the same thing, it was SKR, and it was in reference to Gargoyles being able to Bite and Gore during a full attack (which some people claim uses the same "limb"). He used the word "shouldn't", such as "PCs shouldn't be able to make the same attacks as monsters". When pressed, IIRC, he stated that the word "shouldn't" was chosen intentionally, and that a Raging Barbarian could indeed Bite and Gore (though he didn't like the idea of them doing it).
I tried searching his comments, and couldn't find that dialogue, so I may be misremembering as well.
