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I finally got around to making a Spiritualist and running it in The Confirmation last night. It became pretty obvious by the end of the game that Paizo needs to write up an FAQ on phantoms used by the Spiritualist class. Here are some of the questions that cropped up in just one low-level game:
If phantoms are outsiders with the phantom subtype, what kind of things work on them? Poison? Disease? Sleep? Do they need air? Does this change when they are ectoplasmic vs. incorporeal? (by the way, here is what the online reference document says about the phantom sub-type: "Phantom Subtype: This subtype is applied to the lost souls known as phantoms, outsiders desperately attempting to avoid the fate of undeath." Seriously, someone got paid to type that?)
What kind of items can a phantom use? Armor and weapons are prohibited, simple enough, though that needs to be fixed in the Reference Document. Are wands, rods, slotless items, etc... all free game? Can it drink potions?
According to the book, "A fully manifested phantom is treated as a summoned creature from the Ethereal Plane, except it is not sent back to the Ethereal Plane until it is reduced to a negative amount of hit points equal to or greater than its Constitution score." So does the phantom just pass out and lay there until it gets to negative CON? Does it bleed and have to make CON checks like a humanoid? What if you use a full-round action to make it incorporeal or just pull it back into your consciousness with a standard?
Phantoms can't fly in incorporeal form until level 8, but they can't fall either (according to the rules). So they can airwalk across pits and such?
When the almost-four star GM player running the character and the 5-star GM running the game are that confused, then I would think that an FAQ is needed pretty badly. This goes double for any Spiritualists being used in PFS.
Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed playing my Spiritualist and his zealous phantom, but I can see future rules issues cropping up after playing him last night. Any clarification from the Paizo staff would be appreciated.
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Phantoms are outsiders that used to be living beings - just like some angels, some devils, some demons... They are NOT undead and they are healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy.
Poison works. Disease works. Sleep works. They need air. They can use non-weapon and non-armor items freely, including potions.
Just don't add rules that aren't in the books. Why would they be immune to poison, or sleep? Does it say anywhere that they would be? Just because it might seem weird, doesn't mean it's an unanswered rules question.
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With that said, I have NO idea how "incorporeal but can't fly" works. THAT definitely needs some clarity.
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Okay, poison and disease "works" on the phantom while ectoplasmic. Then I shift my phantom into incorporeal form. Does the disease stay there? Does the poison still work? What if it's a Strength draining poison, incorporeal beings don't have a STR score. How about if I pull it back into my consciousness? Does the phantom stay poisoned and/or diseased?
Again, an FAQ is needed. I have a feeling they just cut and pasted a lot of stuff from eidolons, but phantoms are not just like eidolons, they have forms that make things much different (for instance, phantoms in ectoplasmic form can walk through a stone wall. Because ectoplasm. But poison and disease would still work on them and travel with them, through the wall, or something).
Best fix: Get rid of that useless sentence under the phantom sub-type and really sit down and define what that sub-type means. That would be the way I would go, but who knows what will actually happen....
Except you can't do that in PFS.
Nor is it needed.
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Okay, poison and disease "works" on the phantom while ectoplasmic. Then I shift my phantom into incorporeal form. Does the disease stay there? Does the poison still work? What if it's a Strength draining poison, incorporeal beings don't have a STR score. How about if I pull it back into my consciousness? Does the phantom stay poisoned and/or diseased?
I'd say they would still have the effect on them until it was cured or ran out, it just wouldn't affect them while they're incorporeal.
Rules are pretty clear on the speaking part - " A phantom has the same alignment as the spiritualist, and it can speak all the languages its master can."
Which is pretty much word for word from the Eidolon description. Again, in my humble opinion, this shows the kind of cut-and-paste writing that was used to build the phantom part of the Spiritualist class. Great concept, but the devil is in the details, especially with classes that get companions.
So, are any other PFS folks seeing these issues with the Spiritualists and their phantoms? I had a lot of fun playing one for the first time, but I also see a lot of confusion in store for me if I keep playing it in PFS....
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That idea that phantoms and eidolons can't talk seems to be a common player bias. I once ran a summoner with what I thought was a very talkative eidolon, to the point that my summoner doubted its ability to shut up. Still, the player of the party paladin was startled when he and the eidolon went scouting ahead (I had cast Unfetter Eidolon) and found themselves on another plane -- and the eidolon started talking to the paladin about how worried it was about being cut off from my summoner.
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So, are any other PFS folks seeing these issues with the Spiritualists and their phantoms? I had a lot of fun playing one for the first time, but I also see a lot of confusion in store for me if I keep playing it in PFS....
I have a Grippli Spiritualist. Her phantom is flavored as a swarm of all the deceased tadpoles that didn't survive to adulthood. She's lots of fun.
I haven't had any of those issues. I actually think it's rather clear, for the most part. Except one situation:
The phantom "shares" its master's item slots. But, obviously, an incorporeal phantom can't wear corporeal items. Even an ectoplasmic phantom can't phase lurch through walls if it's wearing anything.
So I interpret the whole passage to mean that the master wears the item, and can choose to have their phantom benefit from it instead of them. It's the only way I can make sense of it.
Oh, and flagged for the Rules Questions Forum.
Phantoms can talk, but they are probably one-sided conversationalists thanks to their emotional focus. Yet that is fluff. Nothing says they can't use their skills like any other character. A phantom could use Diplomacy to gather information or affect NPCs. Some GMs probably won't like the idea of a vaporous monster acting as a party face. Others will shrug and say there are far weirder critters running around Golarion and talking. Table variation is likely. Some NPCs are also more likely to talk to otherworldly creatures than others. That could be bypassed by training the phantom in Disguise and getting it a hat of disguise to boost the skill.
Now that I remember, phantom's skills bug me. Regular outsiders get Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth as class skills, plus four others (flying creatures also get Fly). All phantoms add Intimidate, their two emotional focus skills, and one skill chosen by the player as those four. But many emotional focuses already include one or two of those skills, so phantoms 'lose' class skills.
About ability damage. I'd prefer that even incorporeal phantom would continue taking Strength damage from an ongoing effect. Otherwise it is too easy to forget to apply the damage. And I have a spiritualist (though at a very low level).
The phantom "shares" its master's item slots. But, obviously, an incorporeal phantom can't wear corporeal items. Even an ectoplasmic phantom can't phase lurch through walls if it's wearing anything.
So I interpret the whole passage to mean that the master wears the item, and can choose to have their phantom benefit from it instead of them. It's the only way I can make sense of it.
I don't think it works like that. You need to equip the items on the phantom or it doesn't gain any benefits. Giving it a belt of increadible dexterity and amulet of mighty fists will boost its attacks but prevents it from walking through walls. Gain on one area, lose on another.
I am hopeful, though. The FAQ already has one entry on phantoms:
"Phantoms and Armor: In two different places in the spiritualist class, the rules are in conflict. In one place it says phantoms can wear armor, and in the other it says they can’t. Which is correct?
Phantoms can’t wear armor; that sentence was meant to say they can wear other magic items. This will be reflected in the next errata."
So if they're going to errata the entry on phantoms and armor, they may errata some other stuff too...but only if we make our concerns known. So go ahead and mark this thread for an FAQ entry! Do it for the children! :-)
"About ability damage. I'd prefer that even incorporeal phantom would continue taking Strength damage from an ongoing effect."
How would that work? Incorporeal creatures don't have a Strength score. There is nothing to damage. But I feel your pain, trying to keep some of this stuff organized is damn near impossible and just keeping things cut-and-dried has a lot of appeal. In home games, the almighty GM can just home-rule it and drive on. PFS is where I see the real problems cropping up for this particular critter....
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Which is pretty much word for word from the Eidolon description. Again, in my humble opinion, this shows the kind of cut-and-paste writing that was used to build the phantom part of the Spiritualist class.
That's how technical writing works. Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent. When people are picking apart every clause to determine how a rule works, it's important that things that work the same way be stated in the same way so that readers don't assume variance where there is none.
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I've always wondered how an Amulet of Mighty Fists with Ghost Touch works on incorporeals with no Strength score. They can interact with solid things due to the amulet, but can they even lift anything?
-j
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Which is pretty much word for word from the Eidolon description. Again, in my humble opinion, this shows the kind of cut-and-paste writing that was used to build the phantom part of the Spiritualist class.That's how technical writing works. Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent. When people are picking apart every clause to determine how a rule works, it's important that things that work the same way be stated in the same way so that readers don't assume variance where there is none.
From everything I've seen though, Paizo doesn't want to "write technically" because then it would be like a text book (have you ever seen the Magic the Gathering compiled rules? (or whatever it's called, I haven't played that in too long)). I would love if there was a stronger consistency in the use keywords and a defined structure on how "rules sentences" are written for exactly the reasons you state, but I haven't seen that coming from Paizo..
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We interpret the word "share" differently, then.
And you're not alone. It's the biggest issue of variation I've encountered while playing her.
I've never heard somebody say it works the way you state for eidolons, so why should it work that way for phantoms? They have nearly identical language.
Magic items interfere with a spiritualist's connection to her phantom; as a result, the spiritualist and her phantom share magic item slots.
In addition, magic items interfere with the summoner's connection to his eidolon. As a result, the summoner and his eidolon share magic item slots.
"About ability damage. I'd prefer that even incorporeal phantom would continue taking Strength damage from an ongoing effect."
How would that work? Incorporeal creatures don't have a Strength score. There is nothing to damage. But I feel your pain, trying to keep some of this stuff organized is damn near impossible and just keeping things cut-and-dried has a lot of appeal. In home games, the almighty GM can just home-rule it and drive on. PFS is where I see the real problems cropping up for this particular critter....
If we want a technical answer, I have a stupid question. Is there a rule stating that a creature can't take ability score damage if it lacks the ability? Such damage would have no effect, since the creature does not have a score that can be reduced, but can it technically take the damage anyway? This is irrelevant nitpicking for almost everything, except phantoms and those few rare powers that allow someone to turn incorporeal.
Other than that, I would just wave my hands and default to "it would be easier that way".
A related question. If my phantom dies of Constitution damage or drain, how do I revive it? It does not heal naturally. Con 0 or Con dmg ≥ Con means it is dead, which banishes it to ethereal plane. If I summon it, it is still dead, and a ruleslawyer would probably bounce it back to ethereal. Would the acceptable procedure therefore be to...
a) ...summon it; dead phantom appears and stays put; use restoration; profit.
b) ...use restoration on myself; the effect channels to the phantom and removes the drain/damage.
c) ...summon it; phantom appears with Con 1 or Con damage equal to Con -1; use restoration on it like on any other character.
d) ...retire knowing that the spook is laid to rest, and my spiritualist can finally have some peace and quiet; purchase smoked goggles and hit the beach.
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That's how technical writing works. Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent. When people are picking apart every clause to determine how a rule works, it's important that things that work the same way be stated in the same way so that readers don't assume variance where there is none.
Absolutely, yes, and it's the best approach for this stuff.
I've spent enough time proofreading RPG material that I recognize two additional truths:
1} When reading text you think you know, it is much, much harder to notice things that are incorrect. This is (part of) why authors need editors. An author can re-read what he has written a dozen times and always see what they meant to write, not what they actually penned.
2} When using boilerplate text you are familiar with, problem #1 rises up, only worse, even if you didn't write the passage in question.
Point is that if you sit down and plan on writing a spell similar to fireball, you're wise to take the text of the actual spell and alter it BUT doing so opens you to the weakness of textual familiarity. You may miss some alterations and clarifications needed for your variant spell, because your editing capacity is even worse than if it was original text you authored.
That is all to say... copying the eidolon to become the phantom was the right thing to do. But doing that requires a much more careful eye to spot the edge conditions that apply because a phantom isn't an eidolon. It's different.
So 100% agreement with what you've said, but clarification added.
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Aside: I'm currently playing a spiritualist and enjoying him a lot. He's a nine-year-old boy who'd been told his mother died in childbirth, but in fact she lost her marbles when he was a baby and has spent the intervening years in an asylum. When the story began, his (ranger) father has just been killed by hobgoblins and he's on the run in the woods. Elsewhere, his mother Just Knows. She... passes on, but some of her spirit shows up as a phantom to protect him. As I've been playing them, he's frightened as all heck by this monster, and she absolutely don't KNOW anything except anger and protectiveness. No talking, no gentleness... she just manifests when he's threatened. It's been really, really flavorful and fun.
From everything I've seen though, Paizo doesn't want to "write technically" because then it would be like a text book (have you ever seen the Magic the Gathering compiled rules? (or whatever it's called, I haven't played that in too long)). I would love if there was a stronger consistency in the use keywords and a defined structure on how "rules sentences" are written for exactly the reasons you state, but I haven't seen that coming from Paizo..Which is pretty much word for word from the Eidolon description. Again, in my humble opinion, this shows the kind of cut-and-paste writing that was used to build the phantom part of the Spiritualist class.That's how technical writing works. Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent. When people are picking apart every clause to determine how a rule works, it's important that things that work the same way be stated in the same way so that readers don't assume variance where there is none.
You're incorrect in your assumption about what we want--we certainly want flavor text to be... flavorful, but rules text's #1 priority is precision. There's an effort to make sure rules language is consistent, but we also put out enough material that things sometimes slip. We have a style guide dictating whether it's bonuses "on" or "to" things, etc. but whenever we do new things, it can take a bit to codify the language.
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We interpret the word "share" differently, then.
And you're not alone. It's the biggest issue of variation I've encountered while playing her.
I've never heard somebody say it works the way you state for eidolons, so why should it work that way for phantoms? They have nearly identical language.
Magic items interfere with a spiritualist's connection to her phantom; as a result, the spiritualist and her phantom share magic item slots.In addition, magic items interfere with the summoner's connection to his eidolon. As a result, the summoner and his eidolon share magic item slots.
Are Eidolons not handled the same way? They disappear and reappear just as often. Seems a pain to have to pick everything up when they disappear, and reequip when they appear. And some Eidolons can be incorporeal, too.
I never played a Summoner, though. I'll add your point to the pile.
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Not to sound like a smart-ass (but I'm sure I will), it's a little strange to use this phrasing...
"Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent"
... when the Advanced Class Guide I have sitting on my desk next to my laptop plainly says "Pathfinder: Adventure Path" right on the front cover in big letters. Sometimes a cut-and-paste job saves you a bunch of time, sometimes it just makes you look sloppy and in a hurry.
Now, me being a smart-ass aside, I do have a lot of sympathy for the technical writers at Paizo. Five years ago, one of my additional duties was writing syllabi for a USAF program that trained foreign advisors on U.S. and foreign helicopters. Cut-and-pasting was fast and simple and I was short on time. But that also meant that I had to do a lot of editing, and farm out a lot of proof-reading to my colleagues (when they could lend a hand) because a lot of the errors just blended into the background and I couldn't catch them. In some instances, something that made sense when describing a maneuver in a UH-1N would make very little sense at all if cut-and-pasted into the syllabus for an Mi-17. In other cases, it was no problem at all and saved me all kinds of times.
I have the feeling that the same thing happened when cut-and-pasting text for a phantom from an eidolon. This sentence from the Summoner chapter makes sense to copy and use - "An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner's connection to the eidolon." - except for the fact that this earlier appearing sentence in the Spiritualist chapter - "Fully manifested phantoms can wear armor and use items (though not wield weapons) appropriate to their forms" - is in direct conflict with the first. No problem, Paizo issues corrective guidance at the first opportunity.
So Paizo did the right thing and put out a line in the FAQ fixing that particular conflict in the text. But there are some other things that need to be addressed as well if players using phantoms are to avoid the kinds of problems I ran into with mine. Most of them had no impact on the game being played, but some of them could have had a decisive effect on certain fights and situations.
If I had to put my finger on the biggest one, it would be classifying the phantom as an Outsider with the Phantom sub-type because, as the conversation probably went, "Sure, eidolons are outsiders, but phantoms sound much more like undead. However, undead would be overpowered, so outsiders it is." The sub-type entry could have been used to clear up some of the obvious issues, (a kind-of dead former humanoid made out of ectoplasm has to breath and catches diseases?) but unfortunately, the sub-type has one sentence that contains no useful information. On top of the type and sub-type confusion, you have the fact that phantoms and swap back and forth between being material (aka ectoplasmic) and incorporeal, another tricky sub-type all it's own. Finally, you have the fact that a phantom can be confined in a spiritualist's consciousness, a state that is neither banished (sent back "home" to the the Ethereal Plane) or having even the limited state of an incorporeal creature, it's just sitting there in the spiritualist's mind.
All of those things suggest that the phantom sub-type needs some fleshing out (no pun intended) with definitive language that allows no interpretation or wiggle-room ("phantoms are immune to poison and disease but can be stunned or paralyzed when in ectoplasmic form" for instance). That would seem to be the simplest solution but I'm aware that just because it seems simple rarely means that it actually is....
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Not to sound like a smart-ass (but I'm sure I will), it's a little strange to use this phrasing...
"Something looking like it was cut and pasted from somewhere else = language that is precise and consistent"
... when the Advanced Class Guide I have sitting on my desk next to my laptop plainly says "Pathfinder: Adventure Path" right on the front cover in big letters. Sometimes a cut-and-paste job saves you a bunch of time, sometimes it just makes you look sloppy and in a hurry.
The idea that an Indesign template getting accidentally linked to the wrong graphics file is somehow related to rules text phrasing intentionally being identical in multiple places is nonsensical, so your point eludes me.
You're incorrect in your assumption about what we want--we certainly want flavor text to be... flavorful, but rules text's #1 priority is precision. There's an effort to make sure rules language is consistent, but we also put out enough material that things sometimes slip. We have a style guide dictating whether it's bonuses "on" or "to" things, etc. but whenever we do new things, it can take a bit to codify the language.
From everything I've seen though, Paizo doesn't want to "write technically" because then it would be like a text book (have you ever seen the Magic the Gathering compiled rules? (or whatever it's called, I haven't played that in too long)). I would love if there was a stronger consistency in the use keywords and a defined structure on how "rules sentences" are written for exactly the reasons you state, but I haven't seen that coming from Paizo..
Paizo tries, but there's a big variation into how technical their rules are. Especially when they've been edited for word count.
Of course, I'm also a big 4e player. Whatever else you think of 4e, their rules were very precisely written. I've had the fewest rules issues with 4e out of any game I've ever played.
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I suspect it wasn't because the undead type would be overpowered. I'm pretty sure it's because undead are almost always considered to be evil in Pathfinder. The (always-evil) necrologist archetype from Horror Adventures, with its malevolent undead phantom, is pretty strong evidence of this.
Rather than restrict the entire class to evil (or evil-ish) only, or put a large gap in the "always-evil undead" policy, they made them outsiders instead. (See the prana ghost template from Occult Bestiary for another example of good-aligned not-undead.)
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So, I hope I'm not flagged for being off-topic, but I do feel this is related. My biggest question concerning this class is in regards to Bonded Manifestation. Specifically the ectoplasmic version, in which at 8th level, you get tendrils in which "the spiritualist can use one or both tendrils to attack creatures within her melee reach (using the attack bonus and damage dice of her ectoplasmic manifested phantom)".
What does using the phantom's attack bonus mean, in this case? The phantom is not manifested, so does it mean it uses their Dexterity/Strength bonus and not the Spiritualist's and their BAB in addition to any feats, etc the phantom possesses? Do buffs on the Spiritualist affect these attack rolls? Does the Spiritualist add the damage bonus from the phantom's Str to these rolls? Can the Spiritualist use Power Attack on these attacks?
This raises particular questions for the Exciter archetype from Horror Adventures who doesn't *have* a manifested phantom but still gains this ability, would they still be able to apply feats to their phantom for this purpose so that non-Anger phantoms get to add more than +1 Str to their attack roll or get improved natural attack?
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By the way, it has been pointed out to me (and rightfully so) that some of my comments may have come off as offensive or insulting to the design team, especially with regards to the editing, writing of sub-types, etc...
I apologize for my tone, that was uncalled for and was unfair to the people that worked hard to come up with this new material. I will definitely be more diligent and professional from now on.
I realize that it is very easy, especially in the internet age, to snipe at the people who actually have to get things published and out the door. I actually sat in the Occult Adventures seminar that James Jacobs and the gang did at GENCON last year and I immediately ran downstairs and bought a copy, that was how excited I was after hearing their thoughts. So don't think I don't appreciate how hard everyone worked on the Spiritualist, among other things. I'm just chiming in with my two cents to see if something really cool can be made even cooler (and easier to use in PFS, where RAW rules the roost, so to speak).
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So, I hope I'm not flagged for being off-topic, but I do feel this is related. My biggest question concerning this class is in regards to Bonded Manifestation. Specifically the ectoplasmic version, in which at 8th level, you get tendrils in which "the spiritualist can use one or both tendrils to attack creatures within her melee reach (using the attack bonus and damage dice of her ectoplasmic manifested phantom)".
What does using the phantom's attack bonus mean, in this case? The phantom is not manifested, so does it mean it uses their Dexterity/Strength bonus and not the Spiritualist's and their BAB in addition to any feats, etc the phantom possesses? Do buffs on the Spiritualist affect these attack rolls? Does the Spiritualist add the damage bonus from the phantom's Str to these rolls? Can the Spiritualist use Power Attack on these attacks?
** spoiler omitted **
That is a very interesting side case. In the normal case, I think it simply uses your phantom's attack, including whatever feats the phantom has, plus any effects currently on the spiritualist. "Attack bonus" is defined in the combat chapter as BAB+Stat after all. You don't need to do any more math than you would if the phantom was manifested. Just pull out its stat block and apply Inspire Courage, haste or what have you.
Because an exciter doesn't actually have a manifested phantom, I would default to the spiritualist's stats instead of statting out a phantom that can never manifest. Definitely something to clarify in Horror Adventures!
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As for non-evil undead, one of my favorite NPCs in a recent Pathfinder AP (minor spoilers) is an undead incorporeal creature (a ghost) that used to be a cleric of Iomedae. The ghost has a Lawful Neutral alignment, has four levels of cleric and can channel positive energy to heal mortals (such as the players).
So the idea of non-evil incorporeal undead has been used by Pathfinder fairly recently and in a really cool way....
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That is a very interesting side case. In the normal case, I think it simply uses your phantom's attack, including whatever feats the phantom has, plus any effects currently on the spiritualist. "Attack bonus" is defined in the combat chapter as BAB+Stat after all. You don't need to do any more math than you would if the phantom was manifested. Just pull out its stat block and apply Inspire Courage, haste or what have you.
Because an exciter doesn't actually have a manifested phantom, I would default to the spiritualist's stats instead of statting out a phantom that can never manifest. Definitely something to clarify in Horror Adventures!
I had assumed that interpretation of the base class, but yeah the archetype is something that really needs clarification.
I miiiight have some vested interest in using an Exciter in the near future...
True, that cleric was probably the exception that proved the rule.
That does bring up a thought. Maybe the incorporeal form is the thing that is puzzling me so much about the phantom. If it stayed incorporeal all the time, fine, no problem. If it stayed ectoplasmic all the time, sure, just an eidolon with a slimy green color and a phase-shift ability. But being able to swap back and forth is really cool....but also kinda weird, with regards to rules, creature types, etc....
Honestly, I should have paid more attention when I was GMing some folks last fall that were playing spiritualists during the test period. I remember thinking, "damn, phantoms seem like a really complex companion to have" but I didn't go any further than that. Now that I'm finally playing one, I'm paying for that lapse....
Hence the "almost". ^_^
They prefer it to be rare and plot-relevant. I think they didn't want a whole class of it around.
How does that impact "rarity"? Spiritualists themselves may be rare. Non-Evil Spiritualists may be very rare.
(I mean, realistically, the vast majority of Emotional Focuses are inclined towards Evil alignments)Having a Class Mechanic to flexibly describe options doesn't impact world-rarity, any more than if these potential characters were built as unique Bestiary entries. Literally, we already have Good Ghosts. Making a "Good Ghost Companion Class" doesn't make Good Ghosts any more common then they were before, any more than making "Giant Vermin Companion Druid" class doesn't make Giant Vermin more common.
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This thread is frustrating because there seems to be a few issues which are genuinely problematic and need FAQ/Errata, but the vast majority of issues brought up seem to be the OP refusing to simply apply the RAW as is, simply because they can't conceptualize how to rationalize what the RAW says, e.g. worrying over Poison effected creature changing state, etc. If somebody CAN clarify the actual problems with RAW, perhaps Paizo would be more likely to address them if they were re-posted in a new thread that puts them front and center without tangential griping about stuff that doesn't really need a FAQ in order to apply the RAW.
Well as I see it, Paizo is simply clear from the beginning that these are not Undead, they explicitly say the Phantom have "escape the pull of undeath", they are not trying to describe them as "Undead by other means". In fact their status seems similar if not identical to the souls that refuse judgement and subsequentially roam the universe/astral plane, whom as now immortal disembodied souls seem appropriate to treat as Outsiders, and definitely aren't Undead - I mean, literally, Pharasma is releasing them to roam in that state.
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I wouldn't say releasing them exactly, but yes I'm quite busy.
One FAQ question: Given we are told the Phantom "has the same alignment" as the Spiritualist, what happens when the Spiritualist changes alignment (either normally, or temporarily under some effect)? Does Phantom just follow their moral shift? Should they summon new Phantom? (which may happen normally when they call it out)
This wording is different then e.g. Familiars, where alignment restrictions only apply to initial "choosing" of Familiar, and if you shift in alignment away from the Familiar, it doesn't per se have any rules effect.
I think some of the initial confusion is that phantoms are fluffed as dead people, yet mechanically, they're alive. Most people know that fluff, but unless you've read up on the class in detail, it's easy to miss that crunch.
Well, I would agree that most people are probably going to default to a conception that Living/Undead are the only states possible. If you are aware of broader soul cosmology including wandering souls, that isn't so clear cut.
IMHO, if a connection between Phantoms and wandering souls were played up (not necessarily equating them, but acknowledging similarities) that would be interesting... I mean, Wandering Souls themselves could be statted up, perhaps having some similarities with Phantom abilities, but also going off on tangents, etc. Not-Undead that Pharasma doesn't actually hate would be an interesting twist on things, and make for an interesting encounter. Keeping an Emotional focus as central to them might be an interesting design choice.
That is a very interesting side case. In the normal case, I think it simply uses your phantom's attack, including whatever feats the phantom has, plus any effects currently on the spiritualist. "Attack bonus" is defined in the combat chapter as BAB+Stat after all. You don't need to do any more math than you would if the phantom was manifested. Just pull out its stat block and apply Inspire Courage, haste or what have you.
Because an exciter doesn't actually have a manifested phantom, I would default to the spiritualist's stats instead of statting out a phantom that can never manifest. Definitely something to clarify in Horror Adventures!
I had assumed that interpretation of the base class, but yeah the archetype is something that really needs clarification.
I miiiight have some vested interest in using an Exciter in the near future...
You and I share a similar "vested interest".
The phantom "shares" its master's item slots. But, obviously, an incorporeal phantom can't wear corporeal items. Even an ectoplasmic phantom can't phase lurch through walls if it's wearing anything.
So I interpret the whole passage to mean that the master wears the item, and can choose to have their phantom benefit from it instead of them. It's the only way I can make sense of it.
They share the *slots* not the item or the effect.
What this means is you can wear two rings, you can wear one, or your phantom can wear two. You cannot wear two and have the phantom wear one (or vice versa) without one of the rings ceasing to function. Similarly, you can't wear two belts and gain the effect from both, so either you or the phantom can wear a belt but not both. If you both wear a belt, they don't work.
...and yes, cleaning up after a dismissed eidolon or phantom is a pain.
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IMO, needing to wear items negates half the function of the phantom. It interferes with 3 different abilities.
Other pet types aren't impeded so. When considering game design, I find it hard to believe that one pet should be at such a disadvantage compared to other pets, with no discernible bonus to compensate.
At this point, as the original thread creator, I'm realizing that the simplest thing to do, especially in PFS, is to treat the phantom just like an eidolon (ie. an Outsider) for all intents and purposes. Anything that would effect a physical body (poison, disease, paralysis, etc...) goes away when the phantom "loses" it's physical body and becomes a ghost (ie. incorporeal). Incorporeal phantoms can "airwalk" but can't fly until 8th level. That's a good fix for the mechanics of how to employ a phantom for the 80 to 90% of the situations you see in most Pathfinder games.
The equipment issue is fairly straightforward, they already have an FAQ answer to the armor and weapons confusion. Same for items and slots. Once the errata comes out for the FAQ that already exists, the only issues should be the high-level "hey, this didn't quite work out as intended" issues that never show up in low-level play.
I'll be playing my Spiritualist again this weekend, I'll see if this method of "hey, it's just like an eidolon" helps smooth things out.....