Hello guys,
I come with a new kind of idea.
As other builds I ll try to do an optimized archer build, but this thread is a kind of brainstorm.
So I have a proposition for the first 3 levels:
Bard 1 / Medium 1 / Unchained Monk 1
Archetypes:
Bard - Archaeologist , to get +2 luck bonus to attacks / damage etc...
To get +2 we need fate's favoured.
Medium - (No idea if there is one best suited for what we want).
We want the Champion in order to get + 1 attack and +3 damage.
Unchained Monk - Zen archer?
This way we grab a second attack at 0 cost (better than rapid shot because of -2/-2) with flurry of blow. We can get an extra feat for archery and we can threat at melee with unarmed in addition of a free perfect strike.
At level 3, with 14strengh and 18 dex(nothing amazing there), we can do :
Lets say we pick Lingering performance at first(to triple the duration of the Archaeologist) and Point blank shot at 3rd.
For the extra Monk feat we can get precise shot for example or deflect arrow.
We have :
- Attack: +1(BBA) + 2(luck) + 1(Medium/Untryped?)+1 (PBS)+4 (Dex)= +9
- Damage: +2(luck) + 3(Medium/Untyped?) +1(PBS)+2(str mod) = +8
We have one trait left, I like the trait that allows to deny 1 cover per attack and grant longbow proficiency, it allows to start with bard for example. And even without the proficiency, denying 1 target from cover is awesome from lv 1 to 20.
So, we have no race chosen, no level 0 knacks chosen, no level 0 and 1 spell chosen as bard (I would get windy escape as one of them for sure).
Base saving bonus are at +2/+4/+4. We got +2 to all while under Archaeologist's luck, +1 fort from Medium spirit bonus. Then you add every mod from stats. Seems pretty solid.
So any idea to upgrade that? Even small races can manage very well because those are static bonuses.
The Character is quite Charisma based with the bard and medium. Shall we grab 1 level of Paladin to get that smite? Shall we go Guide(ranger) to get an extra +2/+2 and other bonuses once per day?
Ho by this way, we are actually using a swift action to buff ourself with the Archaeologist's luck. And then it's free to maintain. If we go lingering, we need to use one swift action per 3 rounds.
Medium's bonus is passive for 24hours.
So let's try to not stack many swift action buffs.
1 more seems good, 2 more is the max, otherwise we won't be able to cycle performance rounds.
There are some rage power and archetypes that can grant dex bonus, or +2 to ranged attacks, and they are all free action to start...
Let's brainstorm !
There is the Spirit Focus feat that could grant us +1 att/damage/fortitude/strength based skills and checks..
We could swap precise shot as bonus feat and get PBS as bonus feat, and get Spirit focus first with Medium as the first level.
We would at lv 3 do with a basic bow of strength +2:
+10/+10 at 1D8+9/1D8+9 ~ 28 damage at range with the above example.
The Zen Archer cannot be taken for the unchained monk.
The problem is that outside of your limited duration self buffs, you are a BAB 0 at third level. You are also incredibly MAD. You need DEX to hit, STR for damage, WIS for AC, and CHA for luck rounds..
A Ranger, Slayer, Weapon Master Fighter, or Single Class Zen Archer will kill you in DPR, will have more feats, and will be more effective outside combat as well.
Imbicatus wrote: The problem is that outside of your limited duration self buffs, you are a BAB 0 at third level. You are also incredibly MAD. You need DEX to hit, STR for damage, WIS for AC, and CHA for luck rounds..
A Ranger, Slayer, Weapon Master Fighter, or Single Class Zen Archer will kill you in DPR, will have more feats, and will be more effective outside combat as well.
I Concur.
Tho the Medium Dip is not a bad one depending on the class you pair it with. If you grab a class like Weapon Master Fighter or Slayer having the ability to use Spell Completion items, +2 will, and some extra skills (look more at the fighter) is not a bad dip.
For others like the Zen archer who is suffering a reduced BaB already it would be not as good and like Imbicatus said...not worth it.
The thing about archers in PF is they don't need all this craziness to be super effective. They all need the same basic feats, but that's about it.
In all honesty I think a Zen Archer with 1 LvL Dip @LVL3 into Ranger (Guide) and UMD is Enough.
The Goal is to use 3 Wands: Mage Armor, Gravity Bow and CLW.
With LvL 3 you can use GB and CLW without a check and Mage Armor can be spammed before Battle because of the nice Duration (or give it you Spellcaster).
At LvL 5 you can get the Feat Exceptional Pull for more DMG
Exceptional Pull doesn't do what you think it does. You still need to have you STR match the STR rating of the bow to gain more damage from the bow. All it does is save you 200 gp by letting you buy a Composite Bow with a STR rating of two less than you need. The feat is garbage. It's only value is it protects you from STR damage effecting your accuracy, or allowing barbarians to rage shoot, and both of those can be replaced by putting adaptive on the bow for 1000 gp.
composite longbow wrote: A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow
Mysterious Stranger wrote: The Zen Archer cannot be taken for the unchained monk. Unless this is PFS, there is a 3rd party PDF that can use the standard monk archetypes for the Unchained monk. It does a good job of explaining how it works unlike MCArchetypes.
Awesome archer.... hmmmm
Normally I go fighter on this one Archetype: Archer [APG]
Feats
Human - Iron Will (nothing worse than the group archer/sniper getting charmed, except maybe the Evoker being charmed)
1st- Weapon Focus (bow of choice)
1st- Deadly Aim
2nd- Improved Initiative
3rd- Point-Blank Shot
4th- Rapid-shot
5th- Master Craftsman
6th- weapon specialization (bow type)
7th- Craft Arms and Armor
I normally have what I need by then, with the ability to craft magical ammunition for my bow between missions.
Ho I forgot that Zen archer, doesn't work with Unchained Monk.
I do not see any MAD character build here...
We don't care to not get AC from wisdom actually...
With a 20 points before, Without Race Bonus, we can do something like that:
14 / 16 / 12 / 10 / 10 / 13
If we go halfling it does 12 / 18 / 12 / 10 / 10 / 15
Let's say we get a level of Zen archer with the normal monk:
We loose:
+2 attack (1 from the BBA, and 1 from the flurry of the level 1 monk).
+1 hp
We get back +2 will.
Our base save become +2/+4/+6, becoming +8/+10/+9 with above stats (and the +1 to all saves as racial bonus of halflings), while fighting.
Our attacks become on flurry:
+9/+9 1D6+8, 1D6+8 ~23 damage
Feats: Spirit focus feat(1), Lingering Performance(3), PBS(Monk1)
With 18 rounds of Archeologists luck and 21 at we bump the charisma to 16 at lv 4.
Imbicatus wrote: The problem is that outside of your limited duration self buffs, you are a BAB 0 at third level. You are also incredibly MAD. You need DEX to hit, STR for damage, WIS for AC, and CHA for luck rounds..
A Ranger, Slayer, Weapon Master Fighter, or Single Class Zen Archer will kill you in DPR, will have more feats, and will be more effective outside combat as well.
Wis for AC? Why bother, lets just wear an armor. Just pretend we don't have this bonus. Cha also allows some spells for bard and medium.
We could even go ninja for KI, or Paladin for the smite. Lots of powerful features with CHA. Plus we have almost every skill of the game I guess as class skill.
By this way, this build will do a little better with the rule that allows incremental BBA, like 0.5+0.5+0.5 = 1,5 => +1BBA and even with a 4th +0BBA class, we can get +2 at lv 4.
The thing is that all those bonuses actually are not restricted to a weapon type, so actually we could even do a great switch hitter...
If we swap Zen Archer, by Far strike Monk, we grab quick draw as bonus feat too, and we also get every exotic 'throwable' weapons proficiency.
At level 4 or 5, we could choose to go something like Slayer for full progression to get Studied target to get another +1/+1 bonus.
if you wear armor you can't flurry anymore.
Chess Pwn wrote: if you wear armor you can't flurry anymore. Are you sure? Can you quote me this rule please?
edit:
Armor and Shield Proficiency wrote: Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities. Hmmm, yeah now it starts to become a little mad...
Michael Talley 759 wrote: Awesome archer.... hmmmm
Normally I go fighter on this one Archetype: Archer [APG]
Archer archetype is a trap. You are better off as a Weapon Master or core fighter, especially now that the Weapon Master Handbook is out.
Yeah, I would also like to add that the Archer Fighter archetype is terrible and the core fighter makes a much better archer. Especially with all the options in Weapon Master's Handbook and the Ranged tactics toolbox.
Allright guys I have a new idea of Archer.
This one will be either a Full Nature Fang or a 1 level dip Cleric(archetype?) full Inquisitor(Heretic, sanctified slayer).
For both we gonna take those traits:
- Deadeye Bowman(religion) : deny 1 'creature' soft cover when using longbow
- Hunter's Eye: If Gm allows it to get longbow prof and 2nd increment penalty free (not needed if going inquisitor route)
- Canopy Shooter(race) grippli : +1 trait ranged weap.damage when attacking from higher ground and withing 30feet
- +1 extra channel pool can be a nice trait too (Why?...teasing...)
-drawback if needed
Yeah, I ll do a grippli for this build I guess (climb speed, small size 30feet move, +2dex and Wisdom).
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Here is the big picture for the Full Nature Fang:
So the core of the build is pretty easy get fast shot and many shot with slayer talents at 4th and 6th. But as 1st and 3rd level, we ll go with war blessing and energy channel (acid) feats.
We ll get a domain as nature bond, to grab a channel pool, the most suited one is the swamp domain. This will give us a 3+cha channel pool. And with the blessings, we ll get earth for sure, and another one like liberation or travel, or anything else you like (wind for sniping really far).
This build seems fun, this small little dude can climb anywhere, get high ground advantage, cast 9th level spells, and spam pretty powerfull arrows with the studied target and energy channel boosts. Funny thing is that studied target also boost the DC of spells, which is a good bonus actually.
Don't forget that manyshot counts for 1 attack (and energy channel is per attack) so even if 2 arrows are fired only on charge is used (same rule as deflect arrows that cancels both arrows because of only 1 attack)
The 5th feat can be dealy aim, so at lv 6 it becomes a -2/+4.
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On the other side, we can do a 1 dip cleric to get the channel pool and earth domain. We can grab another domain or an archetype to get a free feat. And we get the energy channel feat. Earth domain is way better than earth blessing because of the extra usage of the power it can grant compared to only 2 minor blessing with the war blessing feat.
Then we go full heretic sanctified slayer, and take as 3rd level feat the one that allows to keep channel (damage) scale with inquisitor levels. We get wisdom mod to key skills and initiative and a bit later slayer talents.
This one doesn't rely on the proficienty trait because inquisitor has them. The cleric dip grants good saves and extra feat/domain depending of archetypes.
This build has another bonus compared to the nature fang on the sneak attacks: it has a scalable sneak attack, while nature fang is stuck at 1D6. And its studied target isn't nerfed (even if nature fang has really small limitations on it).
But this build loose 9th levels spells, slayer talents come so late... 8, 16, 17, 20. This is way to late...
edit: I forgot but this dude get bane...
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For an Archer I prefer faster slayer talent(to get ranger ranged style and bypass preq's) than scalable sneak attack..
So any advice for one of those 2 builds :D ?
Nature fang. Take the crocodile domain for another +3d6 sneak attack, and you can take accomplished sneak attacker for a total of 5d6. Combine that with ranged feint and you can even effectivly use sneak attack at range.
its +1D6 at lv 6, +2D6 at lv 11, and +3D6 at lv 16.
At level 6(even at 5) Energy channel grants +6 damage for 3 attacks (or +12 damage for a manyshot that counts for only 1 charge) vs 3.5 average extra damage.
At level 16, it grants +16 damage for 3 attacks (or +32 for a manyshot that countrs for only 1 charge). vs 10.5 average extra damage.
Crocodile would have been good if we went melee I guess and not with a small grippli for the deathroll ability.
Getting better sneak attacks are more situational because you don't decide when you want (or have to do some feints not attacking I guess?). On the other side, energy channel has a limited pool per day.
I prefer energy channel there. Plus sneak is precision based vs acid elemental damage. I don't know what's best : is there more acid resistant monster vs precision damage resistant monster ?
Also, the Acid damage is multiplied on crit.
(by this way it can also be aquatic or arctic domain depending of the campagn context. we just need the cha pool).
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