We may need popcorn for this thread. I'll go make some.
My first thought is - how are you jumping 35 feet into the air? If it is some sort of move action, then I don't think you can 'ready' an action to go off in the middle of a move action. It may be you'd have to have some sort of external launcher (such as a raging barbarian or a modest catapult) to throw you in an arc over the bad guy.
Even then, I don't think readying a charge would let you beat the physics of a trajectory. If you leap over someone or are thrown over someone, there is no physical way you can suddenly change your trajectory at the top arc, so really you're just going to keep flying until you hit the ground on the other side.
I love wonky ideas but this one might break the wonky threshold.
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I'm wondering how you're planning on jumping 30' vertical, considering that's a DC 120 acrobatics check with a running start.
35' - so it's 124!
You're going to need someone to cast guidance. And also something else.
Actually... 35' would be DC 140. It's DC 4 per foot. ;)I'm wondering how you're planning on jumping 30' vertical, considering that's a DC 120 acrobatics check with a running start.35' - so it's 124!
You're going to need someone to cast guidance. And also something else.
I forgot to carry the Y!
Developer
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I am also very hesitant to say that one could ready an action to trigger based on his own actions. By readying an attack partway through your own movement, you're basically getting the effects of Spring Attack (minus avoiding the attack of opportunity), Shot of the Run, and/or the Bestial Leaper rage power (Ultimate Combat) for free—a comparison that makes me assume this kind of action-readying isn't how the rules are intended to work.
What if he crawls into a bag of holding that is open, and maybe weighted at the top (so the open part points down when thrown), and then someone throws it 35' feet over the bad guy, and then he readies an action to charge straight down out of the bag right at the arc of the toss.
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This is never, ever going to work as intended, but I kind of want someone to try it.
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I'm wondering how you're planning on jumping 30' vertical, considering that's a DC 120 acrobatics check with a running start.35' - so it's 124!
You're going to need someone to cast guidance. And also something else.
140 actually, 1 DC per quarter foot.
Kineticist has a power that will do this however, if I recall correctly.
So, one thing to keep in mind, for this to work, you have to be (minimum) 10 feet away from your opponent, so for this to work, assuming a medium opponent, you must be 15 feet up, meaning the room has to be 20 feet tall.
There is a lot of time this is just not going to work.
Also, you are going to need the Sargava pathfinder chronicle book, heroes of the wild, and you are going to want to wear boots of the cat or you are going to land prone next to your opponent.
So, if you tried this in my game, one problem is that you are going to take a move action to jump up, and your move action is going to end. Since you aren't *on* anything, you start falling. At this point your readied action goes off, but you can't use it, because it requires you to jump down *off* of something, so normal "falling on top of someone" rules kick in.
You would need some way to get a "branch" in mid air over someone as a swift action.
Another problem is you cannot ready then move. So you cannot ready for "when I reach the top of my jump."
So how is this: Kineticist Lance wielder. Hold lance in one hand. Hold +1 anchoring dagger in the other. Kinetic blast yourself to 30 feet above the opponent (35 feet in the air) (move action?) activate the anchoring dagger (swift action), you are now hanging from a "branch." Ready a charge for "When he starts to act" or "after (pc after me but before him) acts.
Tada. It works. It just costs 4 feats and an 18K gp dagger
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Except that the DC isn't distance traveled (as intuitive as that would be; which everyone here so far seems to agree with), but rather the distance of the "obstacle" being cleared (30 feet of air, in this case).
Except he needs to clear 35 feat. 5 feet of opponent + 30 feet of air. He doesn't want to be 30 feet off the ground, he wants to be 30 feet off his opponent's head. Though now that I reread the feat, he just needs to be 30 feet off the ground, so yes, he just needs to make a DC 120 acrobatics, or be a kineticist.
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Ready Action
"The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so)."So Ready Action doesn't have 100% parameters on what is the trigger for the readied action. With Rhino Charge, if I am correct, I could ready action Charge after I leap, since that is only a Standard Action.
I still have movement, because Rhino Charge, which allows me to complete the acrobatics movement to leap up over the enemy for the charge.
Ready Action
"The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so)."So Ready Action doesn't have 100% parameters on what is the trigger for the readied action. With Rhino Charge, if I am correct, I could ready action Charge after I leap, since that is only a Standard Action.
I still have movement, because Rhino Charge, which allows me to complete the acrobatics movement to leap up over the enemy for the charge.
Ah, that speed bumps by build. Hm. I guess that wouldn't help me at all then.
Would there be any other viable option for charge while falling? I can cover the acrobatics at Lvl 5/6 no problem, my biggest issue now seems to qualify for Branch Pounce without literally needing a tree, or wall.
Also, random tidbit, LOVE your guides. You helped me more than you know man.
Always glad to help out, with guides or otherwise!
I know the intent is to jump on top of the enemy, but you might have an easier time flying instead. With a fly speed, you can fly up as a move action, then ready an action to charge "as soon as a free charge lane is open" which would trigger immediately after your turn ends.
Take four levels of Arcanist. Now you can jump up 40' as a move action using 5' of movement via the Dimensional Slide exploit.
I don't think you can ready a charge from there unless you combine it with some sort of Glide ability -- perhaps as a Tengu with the Glide alternate racial trait? That way you don't immediately fall as you complete the Dimensional Slide.
Hitting would still be a problem since you lost BAB in order to get the exploit.
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So a few regulars in my PFS group were trying to make this happen, and it works out to the following:
You can either count it as a charge, which doesn't give you the falling damage (because of the wording of Branch pounce, you need the feat to do extra damage from a fall.)
Or
You can treat yourself as a 'falling object' in which case they get a reflex save, and there's no attack roll. You just body-check them.
We have one person in our group who managed to build it just right, but he had to do some pretty janky stuff and he has a high degree of system mastery. I don't know the complete build, but the basics are:
1) He is a bloodrager. He somehow picked up a familiar either through an archtype or a bloodline or something (not sure how, pretty sure it was from the familiar folio) His familiar flies and can activate magic items (Valet archetype, I think?)
2) He buffed the everloving crap out of his ability to jump. Wand of jump, max ranks in acrobatics, armor that didn't slow him down (Mithral chain shirt I think? Mithral breastplate with armor expert?) I have no idea how he got his jump so high.
3)He buys a large number of feather token: sky hooks
4) Buys boots of the cat
5) Branch pounce feat.
So when outdoors, he sends his familiar high into the sky, and then he calls out to it and it activates the sky hook. He then jumps up onto it. This provides a high altitude for him to 'jump off of' as per the branch pounce feat. The next round he jumps down on his enemies using branch pounce. He takes minimum damage due to boots of the cat
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You, sir, deserve much, much more than any amount of thanks I can give.
This build idea is so simple, yet it perfectly fits everything I need to make it work. If Sky Hook is a legal item, and if everything can combine together without fail, then I believe this is all I need.
Hell, I don't even need Bloodrager, just any class that gives Familiars. Probably should at some point go Improved Familiar,...
Forward all cookies to my friend who made the build, I just repeated it from what I could remember.
Sky Hook is legal last time I checked (archive of Nethys) so long as you have the source book.
I believe he went bloodrager so that he'd have full BAB and thus could actually hit with his Jump-charges.
Should also note that this build, of course, does not work indoors, at which point the character just turns on the bloodrage and stabs things with his spear.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Stuff
Issues regarding RAW:
- Can you ready an action based on your own actions? Not strictly covered by the rules. Rules assert you ready an action to react to something outside your turn. So it is an "Ask your GM" question. I'll call these AYG for short.
- Can you move in the middle of another move action? AYG.
- Acrobat 35 ft over something is DC 140. I dunno, can you?
- You take falling damage, but I know of no rule that says you deal falling damage to what you hit? AYG
- Generally all things that hit another require an attack roll, so AYG what the AC of them for falling is.
- You can't turn on a charge, so can you jump up 30 feet during the charge? AYG
- How Branch Pounce interacts with your desire action is entirely AYG.
So your whole thing is AYG.
So Ask each individual GM before each table session. Also, if you come to the table with a "This is the RAW this is how it works", and the GM doesn't agree your interpretation of the RAW then there are no words you can say to allow you to use them that way. In fact, most of the time, the GM will simply ask you to not play with the group if you keep telling them they are wrong.
Now, all of this assumes you are genuine and sincere in asking, and this isn't a big joke thread.
It's not so much cheesy, as just silly. :P I doubt it's at all overpowered. (Miles better than that god-awful songbird of doom idea - THAT'S cheesy.)
Jumpman sounds fun to play though. ;)
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What was wrong with using an anchoring dagger? That gets you the immovable rod as a swift action, and now you don't need the familiar, which since it is going to cost you several feats and / or levels, is a lot of investment.
Also since this is for PFS, the familiar is going to run into the meat grinder that is "Can familiars activate magic items other than wands" rules call. I believe community consensus is no.
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So I talked to my friend, here's how he got his jump so high.
1) Fire bloodline bloodrager. At higher levels, increases your base move speed to 70 feet for a human (30 ft base+10ft bloodrager +30 at level 8)
2)Cheetah's sprint, immediate action to cast, multiplies your land speed times 10. For every 10 move speed above 30, you get a +4 to your jump check. [(700 move speed-30)/10]*4=+268 to your jump check for that round.
There is a blade that triples the results of your jump check. Starts with an 'a' forget what it's called. Get that as well.
That's what he did. I think at level 5 he said he can jump 140 feet up by taking a 1 on his jump check. Fun times.
The dragoon was mine. To clarify a few points:
As Cheetah's Sprint does indeed only benefit from a run or charge; the whole Dragoon thing has a two round spool time, and requires a high or absent ceiling.
The Metamagic Rager archetype should be used. On round two you need to charge downward to make Branch Pounce function. If your initial jump is higher than your round two movement, your target may be outside your charge range. Ergo, get Extend metamagic on Cheetah's Sprint to make it last two rounds and maintain a charge lane of up to 700 feet.
A reach weapon and/or Lunge is desirable. Not only is it fashionable for a "dragoon" and works out with the Akitonian Blade, but since you will eat AoO's coming down on larger targets (which will have a higher than average frequency encountered outdoors), reach tactics will help you hit first...although you still land adjacent to the critter and likely eat an AoO anyway if it's not dead.
Note that I have yet to actually use this tactic inside a PFS scenario proper. All the scenarios I seem to play on that character are indoors and full of EXTREME BOOKKEEPING!!!
I am wondering if one of the feats/abilities that let you make turns during a charge would help.
-j
Cheetah's Sprint doesn't increase your base land speed, so you would only get the jump bonus for the extra 40ft from Fast Movement and the bloodline power.
If you're going elemental bloodline, you may as well go air and use the 60ft fly speed instead. You could either fly up 30ft and then Rhino Charge down for 3d6 extra fall damage, or spend one turn flying up 60ft and the next charging down for 6d6 extra fall damage.
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It should be a rule that a PFS character can make the dm reach for a slide rule a bottle of asprin and a bottle of vodka but not all three at the same time
