I've begun thinking about how to build characters representing the Chinese zodiac as a way to pass time at work. I'll post some more of the ideas I have for that later if this generates any interest, but right now I'd like to create the Monkey. The obvious choice of weapon would be a Quarterstaff, or Sansetsukon, but I want to try something different.
So how would you build a Rope Dart user with a 20 Pt buy at 5th-10th level? Bonus points if you use the Vanara race.
Hari
Monk Sohei/7
Vanara
Str 16 (+1 level)
Dex 18 (+2 Racial, +2 belt)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 15 (Next level boost, +2 racial)
Cha 8
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Point-blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus: Rope Dart, Combat Reflexes (monk bonus), Improved Trip (monk bonus), Improved Grapple (monk bonus), Vicious Stomp.
Traits: No ideas.
AC: 19 (+5 armor, +4 dex) This looks like it could use help.
Fort: +8
Ref: +10
Will: +8 (+10 vs. enchantment)
Equipment: Cold Iron Rope Dart, +1 Chain Shirt, +2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity, + Cloak of Resistance
During a Flurry with rapid shot and using Ki weapon+Weapon Training, his attack routine should look like this: +9/+9/+9/+4 to hit, with each success dealing 1d4+6 damage. That's not much, but it's about three attacks each round, averaging to about 24, not including the high likelihood of attacks of opportunity, or a successful trip. Not to mention the 20 ft range itself keeps archers on their toes. Casters too, to a degree. This is also with minimal equipment in mind.
That's what I have anyway, I know some of you folks can do much better, so I'd like to know how you would do it.
Is a rope dart that weird? Or have I simply hit the zenith of design in it's use?
The increased damage dice have a duration no? That seems to be a limiting factor. How would one add static damage to use of a rope dart? More str and Deadly Aim?
It's a exotic 'thrown weapon' with inferior properties to a thrown dagger, except that it implicitly doesn't need returning or a blinkback belt. Since it's a ranged weapon you don't normally threaten an area so archers and casters laugh at you. That's not a good start. Still, here's what I'd do.
Wayang Hexcrafter Card Caster Magus 7 - this lets you put a touch attack spell in a thrown weapon. A rope dart will hold the charge when a standard thrown weapon won't. Hexcrafter adds some options for what you can charge it with. The vanara ability mods don't work for this, sorry.
Hm, I forgot that it won't threaten without Snapshot, and it's ilk.
I know it's a pretty bad weapon, that's part of the challenge. Unfortunately I can't get over how creepy Wayangs are. What can we do without using what I can only refer to as an Inverted Gnome?
No the duration is the additional enhancements a Warpriest can add to his weapon and armor. The problem with the Rope Dart is that is an Exotic Weapon that has bad damage and weird properties.
On the bright side Warpriest excels at making weird weapons work.
So a 5th Level Vanara Warpriest of Kofusachi
HP: 4d8+18 (38)
AC: 22 (10+7+3+1+1)
Flat Foot:18
Touch: 15
F +6 4+1+1
R +6 1+4+1
W +8 4+3+1
Attacks:
Rope Dart
+8/+8 d8+4
with a swift action Divine Favor
+11/+11 d8+7
Quarter Staff
+5 d8+3
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 12
Wis 15+1
Int 10
Cha 8
Feats
1: EWP Rope Dart
BF: WF Rope Dart
3: PBS
BF: Precise Shot
5: Rapid Shot
Abilities:
Aura, Minor Blessing, Sacred Weapon d8, Fervor 2d6, Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
Items of Note
+1 Rope Dart
+1 Breastplate
Cloak of Resist +1
Ring of NA +1
Ring of Prot +1
You can use a human or something, the fact that the wayang size and ability modifiers are perfect doesn't make humans not good. A half-elf looks less monkeyish but can get EWP (rope dart) at first level as an alt racial trait.
Also I think you're seriously underestimating how creepy monkeys can look.
I know monkeys can be creepy, but at least is isn't their default look.
Kofusachi is kinda interesting, looking over him. Never heard of him before. And Warpriest gets extra feats to help builds. Nice build.
Edit: I mean, they look like the faces of the damned were crossed with the creepy Romani stereotype.
Edit x2: Although, Card caster Magus does sound sufficiently out of the ordinary, considering that's why I posted this.
Thanks. Ah yeah I picked the Deity just for flavor for the whole Sun Wukong kind of thing. No Deity has rope dart as a favored weapon so you can basically pick any to use with this build.
Warpriest can add serious hurt with the Destruction blessing. And ignore range issues with Air blessing.
I was recently looking into the Far Strike Monk and the rope dart is actually one of the best weapon choices for that Archetype as it allows you to flurry with one weapon without getting the returning property or a Blink Back belt. The Archetype gives you Proficiency with all thrown weapons, flurry with ranged weapons, free quickdraw and bonus ranged feats at level 1 and 2.
However despite offering a lot I think going straight Far Strike monk seems a bit weak as it lacks bonuses to acuracy or damage so I'd suggest branching out into warpriest. However no idea if it's better to just dip one or two level of Far Strike Monk and then go Warpriest or to dip two levels of warpriest for the increased damage die and fervor Divine Favor.
The Class combination does offer some ability synergie so that's a big plus.
Obviously, you combine it with hamatula strike.
** spoiler omitted **
Funny you mention that. I believe Improved grapple will let you do just that. A glove of storing for flavor too. Without necessitating being female.
Looking at the Far strike Monk, I think a single level dip is best for a slight bump to saves and Proficiency. Not being able to combine rapid shot with a Flurry leaves them in a weird place where they end up slightly worse at using the weapon on a full attack without spending Ki. Would the standard Warpriest, or the Sacred Fist be a better way to continue?
If you plan on dipping Far Strike Monk I would recommend two levels for Evasion. As for Sacred Fist or Standard Warpriest I would recommend standard Warpriest as you trade a bunch of abilities for reduced Monk scaling.
Far Strike Monk can also be combined with Monk of the Sacred Mountain for some extra AC and Toughness from a two level dip.
Why is Flurry worse than rapid shot? I'm not seeing that. It's actually slightly better as it treats your BAB as your monk class level. Also if you go straght mon it's way better as it adds iterative 'off hand' attacks later on which you can't get out of rapid shot.
I don't really see how sacred fist is really helping you. You trade your bonus feats for stuff you prolly don't really want and the post FAQ flurry progression is pretty bad. The only perk is that somewhere around level 10 you will get your second iterative.
Far Strike Monk can also be combined with Monk of the Sacred Mountain for some extra AC and Toughness from a two level dip.
Why is Flurry worse than rapid shot? I'm not seeing that. It's actually slightly better as it treats your BAB as your monk class level. Also if you go straght mon it's way better as it adds iterative 'off hand' attacks later on which you can't get out of rapid shot.
I don't really see how sacred fist is really helping you. You trade your bonus feats for stuff you prolly don't really want and the post FAQ flurry progression is pretty bad. The only perk is that somewhere around level 10 you will get your second iterative.
I mean that the unarchetyped monk, or the Sohei I used as my example can both use Rapid Shot, and flurry because there is no language barring it, but the Far strike monk disallows combining the two. I see Warpriest it is for the other levels.
Ah okay gotcha. However I doubt combining Flurry and Rapid Strike is actually gonna positively affect your DPR (at least once you get iteratives) in such a build since you neither have massive bonuses to hit to compensate for the penalties or massive damage on a hit which might make extra attacks worth while.
Alrighty then. Now I'll see how 2 levels of Far Strike Monk and 5 Warpriest turn out.
Monk (Far Strike)2/ Warpriest 5
Vanara
Str 14
Dex 20 (+1 level, +2 Belt)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 15
Cha 8
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk), Point-Blank Shot (Monk), Quick Draw (Monk), Weapon Focus: Rope Dart, Precise Shot (monk), Weapon Focus: Sansetsukon (Warpriest), Improved Trip, Improved Initiative (Warpriest), Iron Will, Deadly Aim.
Traits: Reactionary , Fates Favored
Saves:
Fort: +9
Ref: +8
Will: +11
HP: 7d8 + 14(con) + 5(favored class bonus) = 47
AC: 21 (+5 Dex, +4 armor, +1 deflection, +1 Nat armor)
Equipment: +1 Rope Dart, +1 Sansetsukon, Mithral Chain Shirt, +2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Deflection.
Attack: +9/+9 (1d8 + 6; x2 w/Deadly Aim, PBS, and flurry active.)
With Fervor powering Divine Favor: +12/+12 (1d8 + 9)
Sansetsukon: +6/+6 (1d10 + 4; 19-20x2)
Fervor: +9/+9 (1d10 + 7)
Overall: Clearly better damage dealing with the addition of Deadly Aim and Sacred Weapon, and more accurate as well. Though 2 points of accuracy may not make up for 2 lost attacks per round, The bonus from Sacred Weapon can offer some more ability to nova for a limited number of rounds. The bonus doesn't stack with divine Favor but the extra attack does. This also effectively extends the number of rounds one can stay at the same buffed level. I chose not to add Monk of the Sacred Mountain to the build as I believe Evasion will save me more damage in the long run than a small amount of natural armor and bonus HP. Continued investing in Dex will give me more AC as well, and increased hit bonuses, while also making evasion more likely to work.
Also, I was mistakenly thinking the Rope Dart used Strength to hit and damage originally, and that only counted as a ranged weapon for feats. Obviously that was wrong.
Even saying all of that, a minimally invested Sansetsukon attack routine is barely outperformed. There still seems to be potential though. There are a lot of extra feats laying around in that build, and maybe some choice blessings could help. But alas, that would eat into the action economy more.
tldr; Better, still not good.
Hmm maybe one level of monk is better so that you can get to weapon specialization faster. Also Far Strike Monk can nt Flurry with Sansetsukon only with ranged weapons.
The big bummer is that you can't get Dex to damage with the Rope Dart as you can't give it the agile enchantment this is something I hadn't considered.
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I would go with Unchained Monk. Since Rope Dart is a monk weapon, they are proficient with it (no feat needed), and you get full BAB to boot. Since it's a thrown weapon you get Str to damage also.
If you take Serpentfire Adept from Occult Origins you can fly around at level 4 and dart people in the face.
Also Far Strike Monk can nt Flurry with Sansetsukon only with ranged weapons.
only with thrown weapons, not ranged weapons. there is nothing that says you can't flurry a thrown weapon in melee. There's no reason he couldn't flurry with a Totem spear in melee as it's a thrown weapon.
I would go with Unchained Monk. Since Rope Dart is a monk weapon, they are proficient with it (no feat needed), and you get full BAB to boot. Since it's a thrown weapon you get Str to damage also.
If you take Serpentfire Adept from Occult Origins you can fly around at level 4 and dart people in the face.
Funny you mention that, Unchained Monk was next on my list of things to try out. I'll need to look into that Serpentfire Adept for a different character though. This is the monkey, after all.
Also forgot to add Str to the damage I listed then. So, 1d8 + 8, then 1d8 + 11. Getting better.
Also Far Strike Monk can nt Flurry with Sansetsukon only with ranged weapons.only with thrown weapons, not ranged weapons. there is nothing that says you can't flurry a thrown weapon in melee. There's no reason he couldn't flurry with a Totem spear in melee as it's a thrown weapon.
Typoe. You are correct.
I don't really see how the Unchained monk helps you here. It's pros are better mobility (not needed so much with a ranged weapon) and the ability to Flurry Two Handed (again not needed) it's downsides are bad Wil save and that it's abilities are far more limited to unarmed attacks (specifically the Extra attack option from your ki-pool)
It's all round worse than the farstrike monk for this kind of build.
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The new Weaponmaster's Handbook has two useful feat chains in it, I was considering a rope dart build myself.
Ascetic Style lets you use your monk unarmed attack progression for the weapons' damage, as well as any feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. Stunning Fist for instance. The second feat in the chain lets you use any class ability that works with unarmed strikes, like the Style Strikes. You also get an effective monk level equal to your character level for things like Stunning Fist, if you multiclassed.
Startoss Style lets you richochet a thrown weapon around to other people in it's range. Given that you're already able to flurry with it, that's probably gonna be less ueful.
The new Weaponmaster's Handbook has two useful feat chains in it, I was considering a rope dart build myself.
Ascetic Style lets you use your monk unarmed attack progression for the weapons' damage, as well as any feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. Stunning Fist for instance. The second feat in the chain lets you use any class ability that works with unarmed strikes, like the Style Strikes. You also get an effective monk level equal to your character level for things like Stunning Fist, if you multiclassed.
Startoss Style lets you richochet a thrown weapon around to other people in it's range. Given that you're already able to flurry with it, that's probably gonna be less ueful.
Wow, Ascetic style sounds perfect. Too bad it isn't on the PRD yet.