Because the rewards for 1-4A, 1-4C and 1-4E do not use the word "random" when refering to drawing a card as a reward, and also because I misremembered this thread, I initially thought players could choose the card they draw from their class deck as a reward.
As Vic makes clear in the same thread and also in the Dealing with Cards sidebar in the rulebook, when you are told to draw a card from the box without specifying which card, it's a random card.
I just wanted to clear that up in case anyone else had my misunderstanding. Now I have to break this to my group...
We do have a couple choose a cards in the season (as you'll soon see), but by and large it's random, yes. I like pairing the random draw with a loot, so that everyone at least has a chance for something interesting.
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...and by 'something interesting' you mean 'a Loot', as random draws from your class deck are so rarely helpful. :(
Do the Season of the Righteous random draws offer blessings more often? (I haven't played that far into it, and I don't own the SotR PDFs.) Shackles offers it once as a choice and once as a random type, but given the rarity of blessing upgrades in general it'd be nice to see more chances at them.
...and by 'something interesting' you mean 'a Loot', as random draws from your class deck are so rarely helpful. :(
It can happen. IME, when a table has a loot and a random that lets you select the boon type, usually there's a fair chance someone wants the loot, and a fair chance that 1 in 4 people gets some mild upgrade from the random. Which is honestly pretty good.
Do the Season of the Righteous random draws offer blessings more often? (I haven't played that far into it, and I don't own the SotR PDFs.) Shackles offers it once as a choice and once as a random type, but given the rarity of blessing upgrades in general it'd be nice to see more chances at them.
They're in as much as any other option, and there are actually a bunch of Wrath blessing options in 4 and 5.
I also find that we get blessings in Wrath a bit more than S&S. I think that might be due to the locations (temp close to acquire a blessing? don't mind if I do), but for instance we found 2 blessing 5s in a single run the other day.
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It can happen. IME, when a table has a loot and a random that lets you select the boon type, usually there's a fair chance someone wants the loot,
Sadly, there's only one Besmara's Tricorne. :)
In Shackles we usually take about a third of the Loots: Tricorne, Farglass, Svingli's Eye. We don't have Ranged or Finesse weapon users and the allies aren't that great, so those are rarely taken, but we have all used our Vailea replacement reward. Once we're through Adventure 4 the ratio should improve a bit. (We're on 0-4C.)
and a fair chance that 1 in 4 people gets some mild upgrade from the random. Which is honestly pretty good.
You've had much better luck with random draws than we have in Shackles, then. In our games I think maybe once every three scenarios with a random draw reward someone seriously considers keeping the result. Given the varying number of players, about 1 in 15.
They're both very dependent on group and character (feat selection and deck composition), of course. Also luck of the draw, but you can't change that. :/
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I'm curious about loot usage in general in OP. There were a few loots that got routinely used in S&S---my class deck Kyra would glare down anyone who threatened to take Brine's Sting from her. But in general with WotR, I've found that there are so many moving parts with scenario rules and cohorts and villains-who-are-not-the-card that looking through the loot and trading out is just too many things. Plus, people are happy w their decks. But I don't know if other ppl have this experience or if it's my table.
I think it's just your table. We routinely use a lot of the Loot in WotR - Black Robe gets used a lot because its damage reduction is generic, the weapons get used routinely, blessing replacement too.
In Wrath 5C play the other day, the Black Robe, Firebow, Starbow, Talisman of True Faith, blessing swap (x2) were all taken. If we had a melee character, I imagined he'd have used one of those options.
Depends a little bit on the type of random reward, but my general experience (which is dozens of scenarios, but likely fewer than many of you!) is that everyone is able to pick a boon type that they have a, say, 1 in 4 to 1 in 12 chance of getting a reward, and so as a _group_ the 4 of us manage to get something about more than a majority of the time (50+%), maybe better.
The only time I haven't observed that working are particular characters picking weapon in a deck with multiple types of weapons and they only like certain types, and when the character already has all notable upgrades (and random upgrades aren't any much different from named upgrades for those characters). For instance, my CD Lini has all the allies she wants (due to charm animal tricks, largely) and is maybe 1 in 12 for spells, but blessings are almost 50/50 to get something I'd consider, armor was 1/4.
It may be that I'm picking boon types based on the odds, rather than the chase aspect, more than others. Like if you have a 1 in 20 chance of getting that one perfect weapon, random is pretty rude.
After a certain point do you ever remove basic and elite cards from random draws. Nothing suck more than getting a random weapon from a scenario in Adventure 4 and getting a longsword.
After a certain point do you ever remove basic and elite cards from random draws. Nothing suck more than getting a random weapon from a scenario in Adventure 4 and getting a longsword.
That's a fair question. I'll ping Tanis on it.
I'd swear my group's average over the two seasons is much less than Keith's predicted 1 in 4 desirable draws, but in adventure 1-4 this has held up in our group. In our 4-person party, one person drew a card they ended up keeping for 1-4A and another person did so for 1-4C. We'll see what 1-4E brings.
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It took a bit of digging but I knew someone had answered it before, here is Vic confirming that you don't purge your Class Deck
I will say that some of the later rewards sometimes slant the odds a little by including an adventure deck number restriction or letting you choose a specific card. It's probably viable to include the occasional "non-basic" and maybe "non-elite" in the mix as well.
With the tiers taking feat bonuses out, though, scenarios can't give many feats, which means that rewards need to slant towards the less fantastic for sanity's sake.
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It may be that I'm picking boon types based on the odds, rather than the chase aspect, more than others. Like if you have a 1 in 20 chance of getting that one perfect weapon, random is pretty rude.
It depends on what options you have. In our last successful SotS scenario you're given a random draw choice between weapon and ally. Amaryllis doesn't have weapons, so ally it is. To my surprise, she got a card she kept for the first time!
Checking through my chronicle sheets shows:
Amaryllis (S0): 1/7
Valendron (S0): 1/3
Harsk (S0): 1/4
Agna (S1): 0/2
Which is about 1 in 6, quite a bit better than I remembered for our group. Hopefully this is closer to what everyone is seeing. :)
Addition: The random draws for Season of the Shackles (pre-Tier system rewrite):
0-1A: Weapon or Spell
0-1D: Random (not Loot)
0-1E: Item or Ally
0-2A: Ally
0-3B: Weapon or Spell
0-3D: Choice (not Loot)
0-4B: Weapon or Ally
0-5B: Ally
With the tiers taking feat bonuses out, though, scenarios can't give many feats, which means that rewards need to slant towards the less fantastic for sanity's sake.
I like that removing the Feat rewards makes room to spread out the Loot rewards.
So, matching my group of 4 gets .5+ successful randoms per scenario to your 16 matches up well; you've got 3 hits out of 16 total scenarios, which is .75 per.
The trick is that it's especially disheartening for Amaryllis since that likely felt like it never paid off.
Looking at my Lini records, I may have been uncommonly lucky, but I've drawn 4 great cards: Charm Animal, Mastiff, Ice Strike, Divine Blaze, and 3 draws I didn't use, so that's 4 / 7.
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It does feel less than rewarding, but that's random for you. Our main group's results have been similar; while I don't know for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if we all had kept only one card out of seven draws.
For Amaryllis it's almost assuredly going to end 1/8, since the only other ally I really want is the Clockwork Owl that won't be available. We also did the one that hit (0-4B) incorrectly, as we purged Basics and Elites from our draw.
Congratulations on your amazing luck in getting 4/7 with the same character!
This is good data. I'll think about this as we scheme out Runelords.
Necro;
So, just to be clear.
Rewards for Adventure 2-4B and 2-4C tell me to "choose card type A, B or C, then each character draws a card of the chosen type from the game box and adds it to cards acquired to the scenario.".
These drawns cards are random?
With my luck, I've drawn 5 Basic cards this way when I'm in tier 4+. It's really hard to upgrade my deck like this.. /cry
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Necro;
So, just to be clear.
Rewards for Adventure 2-4B and 2-4C tell me to "choose card type A, B or C, then each character draws a card of the chosen type from the game box and adds it to cards acquired to the scenario.".These drawns cards are random?
With my luck, I've drawn 5 Basic cards this way when I'm in tier 4+. It's really hard to upgrade my deck like this.. /cry
You are correct. I didn't find it in the latest version of the PFSACG guide, but in previous versions, it was Ok to purge Basic cards as soon as you start Adventure 3, either before the game begins, or "on the fly" by replacing every Basic card you draw, encounter, examine, or what have you with another card from the box.
The rules for purging cards for the Season of the Runelords are on the Adventure Path page itself, and they are the same as those on the Adventure Path cards of the sets -- namely, the mandatory/optional Basic bane/boon purging starting from adventure 3 onward, and the same for Elites starting in adventure 5.
There is no option in the Organized Play rules in seasons 2 or 3 to pro-actively purge AD-3 (or AD-2) Basic/Elites from your box. I think this is a serious mistake, as I prefer this method. I think the better boon selection is more than offset by the tougher bane environment, making for a more challenging, and thus satisfying, experience.
There should be, as I'm under the impression that Vic never dropped the proactive purge option. I will ask.
Chief Technical Officer
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Hmm. It looks like the "Preparing the Game Box" sidebar was accidentally omitted from the Guide layout starting with 3.0. I will have it reinstated.
Here's the previous text (it may change a bit when it appears in 4.2, but only in cosmetics, not intent):
The bulk of the preparation time for Adventure Card Guild sessions lies in setting up the game box to be used for the game. You may use the standard rules in the current rulebook for preparing the box, but the following options are designed to streamline your setup process.
Keep the Character Add-On Deck in Small Games: With fewer than five players, the Character Add-On Deck is not required, but if it’s already in the game box, there’s no need to remove it.
Purge Basics and Elites by Adventure Deck: Each season’s Adventure Path tells you when and how to begin removing cards with the Basic and Elite traits from the game. To make things more interesting and to help you remove the right cards faster, when you add a new Adventure Deck to your game box after adventure 3, remove all cards with the Basic and Elite traits with adventure deck numbers at least three lower than the adventure deck you just added.
Purge Basics and Elites on the Fly: Alternatively, if you can’t spend as much time preparing the game box before play, you can purge the Basic and Elite cards when you encounter them. Just set everything up as usual, and when you run into a card that would have been removed, immediately remove it from the game and replace it with another card of the same type from the game box.
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The return of this sidebar to official sanctioning makes me feel so much better about my life and role in PACG. (AKA, we've been removing basics and elites anyway, because we play more than one game out of the same box, and as a lawful person, I've been feeling bad about it for a year and a half.)
This sidebar is the best.
Good thing it's back. Hope it'll be back in the rule book soon.
So, if I understand it right;
As soon as I add in cards from Adventure 4, I may purge all the Basic and elite cards with the B- and 1-indicator. When I start Adventure 5, I can do this with the 2-indicator? Or do I start removing B-cards after I've added in 3-cards. Since B-cards counts as 0, right?
If I read this correctly you have to purge all basics, you can not chose if you use second option... by by, cure and some other things.
If you use normal way, you may chose when banishing boons, but not with banes.
Hannibal, Donny is referring to the "Purge Basics and Elites by Adventure Deck". He's not talking about when you remove them, he's talking about which ones to remove, as the rule alters which cards get removed as opposed to the way it appears on the Adventure Path card (the "On the Fly" rule gives you the option to do it all at once, since pre-removing all of them is the same as removing when you encounter and replacing)
Anyways, Donny, it looks like the issue is that "after Adventure 3" is ambiguous, as it could mean "after Adventure 3 is complete" or "after Adventure 3 has been started". I read it as "after Adventure 3 is complete" as that's when you get your power spike from the role card.
I actually prefer the normal Purge Basics and Elites via the Adventure Path card (as I feel it's more tested), though I do use the "Purge Basics and Elites On the Fly" rule.
...when you add a new Adventure Deck to your game box after adventure 3...
This sounds clear to me -- you purge when you add the Adventure 4 cards to the box (and again when you add 5 and 6). I don't see how adding adventure 3 cards could be understood to be after adventure 3.
Hannibal has a valid point. The sidebar does not make removal of boons optional. You've got to remove Remove Curse. That does not seem right.
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You've got to remove Remove Curse. That does not seem right.
The reward that lets you replace one of your Spells with a Remove Curse should override that.
Using an alternative way to set up the box (replacing while you go, in our case) is a fair trade for it taking a reasonable time to set up a game when you're running Guild play for multiple groups using the same box. If you're only running for one group, or if you're fine with doing the work to set up the box for each group, you don't have to use those options.
Personally, I'm happy with dumping occasionally useful low-level cards for a better chance to get a good deck upgrade.
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Hmm. It looks like the "Preparing the Game Box" sidebar was accidentally omitted from the Guide layout starting with 3.0. I will have it reinstated.
Here's the previous text (it may change a bit when it appears in 4.2, but only in cosmetics, not intent):
[snip]
Thanks, Vic! Glad to know that intent remains intact.
In previous seasons, there has been some confusion about whether or not basic Blessings should be purged along with all the other basics/elites. Would it be possible to get that clarified in the updated/reinstated version of this text?
Thanks again!
Thanks, Vic! Glad to know that intent remains intact.
In previous seasons, there has been some confusion about whether or not basic Blessings should be purged along with all the other basics/elites. Would it be possible to get that clarified in the updated/reinstated version of this text?
Thanks again!
So true! Good to include future iteration of rules.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Anyways, Donny, it looks like the issue is that "after Adventure 3" is ambiguous, as it could mean "after Adventure 3 is complete" or "after Adventure 3 has been started".
If I tell you I'll make dinner after the game, do you think I mean after the game starts, or after the game ends?