So... Ive seen a lot of discussion on just about all the ACG classes... except this poor guy. He is almost never mentioned.
So, what do you guys think of him? Is he meh, ok, bad, or decent? And do the new VMC rules change much to help him out (like taking a class that also grants a AC to stack levels or some such).
On a side note, i feel like a dip into mammoth rider with a python companion seems legit... give iy the constricting horror or whatev chain... seems decent.
He's good. It's just that there's not much to him. And that it's debatable that the Inquisitor does it better by getting bane and a "better" spell list.
That is good lol.i love pet classes and My buddy is not fond of summoners lol
Sorry, is this an archetype you are talking about or just the Hunter class?
Cause I'm currently playing a non-archetype Hunter and it rocks big time.
Love it.
I was wondering hunter class because I never see the poor guy mentioned. Bloodragers, arcanist, swashbuckler, warpriests, ect you see mentioned and talked about a lot, but Hunter seems to be forgotten a lot lol.
Personally im tempted to get a contricting Python, get Final Embrace, and a dip into Mammoth rider to make the python huge sized and focus on archery or maybe a scythe for cool points lol
Oh and she would be human with the Eye for Talent racial ability to give the python a 3 int from level 1 so i can get normal feats like vital strike pretty early.
Hunters really can use teamwork feats to their full effect in isolation. 90% of teamwork feats are can be made "always-on", especially if you ride the Animal Companion. Escape Route is a great one. If another party member picks Teamwork feats or gets them as class features then even better.
It's quite possible to make some really effective builds using feat synergy such as Pack Flanking/Outflank in combination with Paired Opportunists/Broken Wing Gambit. The only major drawback is having to invest in physical stats, Wisdom as well as enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise.
*Edit* Add the Fortuitous weapon enchant to the above feats for even more synergy.
Hunters really can use teamwork feats to their full effect in isolation. 90% of teamwork feats are can be made "always-on", especially if you ride the Animal Companion. Escape Route is a great one. If another party member picks Teamwork feats or gets them as class features then even better.
It's quite possible to make some really effective builds using feat synergy such as Pack Flanking/Outflank in combination with Paired Opportunists/Broken Wing Gambit. The only major drawback is having to invest in physical stats, Wisdom as well as enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise.
Lol the New dirty fighting feat allows for you to ignore any feat thay requires 13 int or dex and counts as combat expertise actually :p.
They seem to be regretting making CE (even the mesmerist has the same.language)
Hunters really can use teamwork feats to their full effect in isolation. 90% of teamwork feats are can be made "always-on", especially if you ride the Animal Companion. Escape Route is a great one. If another party member picks Teamwork feats or gets them as class features then even better.
It's quite possible to make some really effective builds using feat synergy such as Pack Flanking/Outflank in combination with Paired Opportunists/Broken Wing Gambit. The only major drawback is having to invest in physical stats, Wisdom as well as enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise.
My character is running around in a ballroom gown poking people with a rapier and has an INT of 12.
Still the top damage dealer because I used Eye for Talent on the cat, and am using the human favored class bonus to give Sasha (muh kitteh) extra skill points.
Throw in 'huntmaster-human' and I have a level 4 pet in a level 3 party.
We totally hulk-smash whatever we fight, and look awesome doing it.
Spellcasting is used for healing (I'm party healer, go figure).
Best.
Character.
Evar!
Much of the hunter discussion revolves around which companion to take, and was already done with other classes. Where a companion is good, one that gets teamwork feats is better. Essentially he's like a non-wildshaping druid with teamwork feats.
So yeah, I highly recommend this class.
Even with suboptimal stats, you can smash most things teeth in.
Looking for the new Dirty Fighter feat I just found the Dirty Fighter trait from Ultimate Campaign - a flat +1 damage to flanked opponents that multiplies on a crit, and only costs a trait! Mmmm.... delicious synergy.
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Hunter is good. Aside from the boost it gets to Animal companions and the ability to always use teamwork feats, it also gets a number of early access spells. Resist energy and delay poison at level 1, protection from energy and wind wall at 2.
The spell list may not be as good as the inquisitors, but it's got it's moments.
Looking for the new Dirty Fighter feat I just found the Dirty Fighter trait from Ultimate Campaign - a flat +1 damage to flanked opponents that multiplies on a crit, and only costs a trait! Mmmm.... delicious synergy.
It was spoiled for their new soft cover, i forgot the name of it... i juat sqw it spoiled somewhere...
Yeah, with Outflank and Precise strike... and a crit threat of 18+, I'm hitting for like...
2D6+3... muh kitteh gets to add 1D6 to each of HER attacks...
While flanking, of course, but the extra 4D6 per round is pretty sweet.
Didn't take that trait though, went with Rich Parents so I could start with masterwork rapier/buckler and fancy ballroom gown.
What a pretty princess my character is... drenched in blood from all the stuff she kills.
Good times.
this is the best I could find, i cant find the original post from paizo
The feat is pretty legit.
The only real controversial point for Hunters is that on the surface they look like they would be great archers, but actually they're better in melee. The ranged teamwork feats are far less effective than melee ones, and lots of the best teamwork feats require you to be adjacent or Flanking.
The only real controversial point for Hunters is that on the surface they look like they would be great archers, but actually they're better in melee. The ranged teamwork feats are far less effective than melee ones, and lots of the best teamwork feats require you to be adjacent or Flanking.
I'm focusing on melee, myself, but of course own a fancy Composite Longbow +3 STR.
It's been a hoot so far, mostly chompy clawing pokey bleedy fun, but some twangy thunk thunk THUD fun too.
You soud like Sera lol
Unfortunately I don't think Dirty Fighter will work for Hunters & Pack Flanking. It only counts as 13 INT and Combat Expertise for "improved combat maneuver feats". Still a nice find though, thanks Pixie.
*Edit* If you combine it with Pack Flanking though, it could make Hunters quite nasty at combat maneuvers.
I wish my hunter had INT 13... :( Still fun to play though!
This would be awesome for grapple focused Constrictor type snakes... give a HUGE bonus to your snake. Lets see... for this type of build your pet wants...
Grapplr feats
Final embrace chain
If space, Vital strike feats.
The hunter could get Dirty Trick feats to further weaken the opponent to the constrictor (the final feat is nasty as you can prevent it from taking Standard actions... which means it cant break out of the snakes constrict ability).
I wonder what happens if you VMC druid on top.of hunter... would your level 11 hunter have a level 22 pet?...hm...
Druid VMC would likely to give you a second AC rather than the levels from both stacking. Based on the Packmaster archetype's wording any Animal Focus, Teamwork Feat sharing, Precise Companion etc would only affect one AC at a time though.
You can always take a one level dip of wild child brawler. Your companion will not lose progression, and you will count as having int 13 for feats.
Eh, lost spell progression though, just gonna level INT to 13 at level 4.
I mucked up during character creation, but despite that, have wound up being both party DPR AND Healer.
Also look great in a dress. Got it all. Hunter. Yes. :D
Druid VMC would likely to give you a second AC rather than the levels from both stacking. Based on the Packmaster archetype's wording any Animal Focus, Teamwork Feat sharing, Precise Companion etc would only affect one AC at a time though.
Except the default effect of multiple instances of an AC ability is that they stack to determine the effective level of the AC. For instance, if you multiclass druid 4/ranger 4 you have a level 5 AC (unless you get the feat to bring it back up to full again).
Its kinda like a familair, you canr have more than 1 (pack master is an exception). So technically... at level 11, by RAW, your effective level doubles for your AC...
I doubt any GM would permit you to have an AC beyond your character level. RAW your class levels stack - but you only actually have Hunter levels, and they don't stack with each other. Animal Companion shenanigans have been tried in every flavor over the years - if there is leeway they get FAQed to the RAI soon. I'm surprised the Elf/Aasimar Oracle FCB Animal Companion boost hasn't been fixed yet.
Hunters are already very solid without being brokenly overpowered, sort of like the Bard or Ranger. Trying to break the Animal Companion is asking for trouble.
I doubt any GM would permit you to have an AC beyond your character level. RAW your class levels stack - but you only actually have Hunter levels, and they don't stack with each other. Animal Companion shenanigans have been tried in every flavor over the years - if there is leeway they get FAQed to the RAI soon. I'm surprised the Elf/Aasimar Oracle FCB Animal Companion boost hasn't been fixed yet.
Hunters are already very solid without being brokenly overpowered, sort of like the Bard or Ranger. Trying to break the Animal Companion is asking for trouble.
Technically you have 2 instances of the animal companion ability, so they, by AC rules, stack thier levels together. One instance says your ac has level equal to your level based on the chart (hunter), the second instance treats you as a druid -4 levels of your current level until level 11. So stacking them together wpuld create effective druid level 22.
There is no questionable rules or reading between lines. You are doing exactly the ability says. Now what happens beyond level 20 is up for debate. Unless you are a packmaster.
And i doubt this is a slip up since paizo knows full well there are classes that Grant ACs outside the druid (ranger for instance). And the aasimar FCB for oracles is well known.
I hope I'm not wrong about this, but the Huntmaster-Human feat seems to allow for an animal companion a level higher than it should be...
With restrictions.
It says pretty clearly that yeah,your AC is a level higher for abilities..,
And i doubt this is a slip up since paizo knows full well there are classes that Grant ACs outside the druid (ranger for instance). And the aasimar FCB for oracles is well known.
Like the rest of the ACG the VMC list seems hastily thought through, and has a lot of wording that needs work even after the errata. The VMC options vary from useless fluff to absurdly good with little rhyme or reason to them. It may well be a leftover from when parent classes and hybrid classes couldn't overlap, who knows.
If you can find a GM who will let you have an animal companion at twice your level then good luck to you. Building something around this possibility, insisting it's RAW & then complaining when it gets disallowed is pretty much Powergaming 101.
It might seem odd coming from someone who posted a bunch of strongly synergised feats earlier, but there is a big difference between good options and trying to break an aspect of the game.
And i doubt this is a slip up since paizo knows full well there are classes that Grant ACs outside the druid (ranger for instance). And the aasimar FCB for oracles is well known.Like the rest of the ACG the VMC list seems hastily thought through, and has a lot of wording that needs work even after the errata. The VMC options vary from useless fluff to absurdly good with little rhyme or reason to them. It may well be a leftover from when parent classes and hybrid classes couldn't overlap, who knows.
If you can find a GM who will let you have an animal companion at twice your level then good luck to you. Building something around this possibility, insisting it's RAW & then complaining when it gets disallowed is pretty much Powergaming 101.
It might seem odd coming from someone who posted a bunch of strongly synergised feats earlier, but there is a big difference between good options and trying to break an aspect of the game.
You seem confused. The reason VMC wasn't touched at all with the ACG errata was because VMC was from Unchained. And people said Unchained was much better than ACG. So your first paragraph completely says nothing.
Personally, I quite like the Hunter class. It doesn't get mentioned alot in these forums because it's very well designed; it's not broken powerful, nor does it suck. I like it much better than the Druid or Ranger myself.
I have an archer hunter. I took a 1 level dip into medium for the massive damage buff. Despite the class focus on animal companions and teamwork feats, I've got Divine Hunter as an archetype and I haven't replaced the AC that I lost a few levels back. Build choices have put me in a position to be a good archer most of the time (Deadeye Bowman trait, PBS, Precise, Rapid, and Spirit Focus at level 3). My full attack is +7/+7 for 1d8+6 per shot without the PBS factored in)
The character is in PFS and my next feat is looking to be Planar Focus. I'll probably skip out on the AC entirely. The character plays well and is plenty of fun.
I have an archer hunter. I took a 1 level dip into medium for the massive damage buff. Despite the class focus on animal companions and teamwork feats, I've got Divine Hunter as an archetype and I haven't replaced the AC that I lost a few levels back. Build choices have put me in a position to be a good archer most of the time (Deadeye Bowman trait, PBS, Precise, Rapid, and Spirit Focus at level 3). My full attack is +7/+7 for 1d8+6 per shot without the PBS factored in)
The character is in PFS and my next feat is looking to be Planar Focus. I'll probably skip out on the AC entirely. The character plays well and is plenty of fun.
To me, the whole point of the class IS the AC.
Interesting that you don't play it that way, I truly cannot imagine giving up the opportunity for a furry death-machine.
I have an archer hunter. I took a 1 level dip into medium for the massive damage buff. Despite the class focus on animal companions and teamwork feats, I've got Divine Hunter as an archetype and I haven't replaced the AC that I lost a few levels back. Build choices have put me in a position to be a good archer most of the time (Deadeye Bowman trait, PBS, Precise, Rapid, and Spirit Focus at level 3). My full attack is +7/+7 for 1d8+6 per shot without the PBS factored in)
The character is in PFS and my next feat is looking to be Planar Focus. I'll probably skip out on the AC entirely. The character plays well and is plenty of fun.
To me, the whole point of the class IS the AC.
Interesting that you don't play it that way, I truly cannot imagine giving up the opportunity for a furry death-machine.
Josef isn't even the recently-corrected (won't say nerfed because Vermin Focus: Worm was broken) Verminous Hunter archetype that people were dipping for. There are a few configurations of Hunter that are perfectly reasonable without the AC. Planar Focus is one of the things that pushes them in that direction.
Josef isn't even the recently-corrected (won't say nerfed because Vermin Focus: Worm was broken) Verminous Hunter archetype that people were dipping for. There are a few configurations of Hunter that are perfectly reasonable without the AC. Planar Focus is one of the things that pushes them in that direction.I have an archer hunter. I took a 1 level dip into medium for the massive damage buff. Despite the class focus on animal companions and teamwork feats, I've got Divine Hunter as an archetype and I haven't replaced the AC that I lost a few levels back. Build choices have put me in a position to be a good archer most of the time (Deadeye Bowman trait, PBS, Precise, Rapid, and Spirit Focus at level 3). My full attack is +7/+7 for 1d8+6 per shot without the PBS factored in)
The character is in PFS and my next feat is looking to be Planar Focus. I'll probably skip out on the AC entirely. The character plays well and is plenty of fun.
To me, the whole point of the class IS the AC.
Interesting that you don't play it that way, I truly cannot imagine giving up the opportunity for a furry death-machine.
But... furry death-machine! :D
I dunno, I like the free teamwork feats and extra buffs the AC gets.
Flanking gets crazy powerful, IMO. I generally just go straight Fighter for Archery builds (for the feats).
Of course, I'm only three levels into the class, so who knows how I will feel by level 12...
All vermin focus worm did was allow you to save 5000 gp and free up your boots slot. The dip cost a lot more than that.
Josef isn't even the recently-corrected (won't say nerfed because Vermin Focus: Worm was broken) Verminous Hunter archetype that people were dipping for.
Also a +1 equivalent armor enchant. The other point is that it opened up other options (vision modes, perception bonuses, etc.) that could be very utilitarian. Adding in wand activation for two spell lists didn't hurt, either.
If you were exclusively going for worm and never did anything else from Hunter, it was definitely not worth it. With the other perks, it's not something that dramatically hurt a number of different builds.
Hunter rocks, and is much better than the Hunter Inquisitor, just by virtue of how amazing it is with wands.
Hunter rocks, and is much better than the Hunter Inquisitor, just by virtue of how amazing it is with wands.
Why would the Hunter be better with wands than the Inquisitor? Aren't they both 6 level divine casters?
hunter has the driud and ranger spells to work with. Inquisitor has the inquisitor list to work with. Hunter can gravity bow and lead blades while the inquisitor can do divine favor. So their spell lists are very different.
Inquisitor can also cast battlemind link, the single best buff spell for a meleer and animal duo in the game. I'd say that levels the spell list between hunter and sacred huntmaster. The fact that sacred huntmaster keeps bane puts it on top imo. But hunter is still really strong.
I would really love using Battlemind Link if I knew how the hell it actually worked. Like, are we supposed to have the same initiative value? It says to use the higher dice roll (specifically before modifiers), so we could have very different initiatives. And if you don't act at the same time, the spell just makes no sense.